You've tried several different recipes apparently so can you be more specific about what you didn't like? That way certain adjustments could be recommended. Plus what sort of errors do you think you are making?

For example you said in your earlier post on this subject that you used the Joy of Pickling recipe but made some changes to it. Have you tried it as it is written?

Here are 2 recipes that Rachel posted some time back. Note she uses Napa cabbage. http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2496238/kimchee-recipe-who-asked-me-for-it?n=17

Same here - Napa - but I honestly don't think it makes all that much difference if you use any of the other Pekinensis-types too like Michihili. The secret to success IMO is, just as with kraut, the container size and shape used for fermenting. If you really love it and eat a lot of it then it is well worth investing in an actual fermentation crock, one with water-seal lid and weights. There is no comparison between the end result of crock fermentation vs. any other method.

Dave

This recipe sounds interesting too.

Dave

I've used Linda Ziedrich's recipes, by the quart and always had success.

Dave, in one batch there was a texture issue, nothing had any sort of crunch. I realize there will be some wilted areas but usually the ribs of the cabbage have a bit of crunch. There, I thought I had accidently over processed it because I didn't keep track of specific time periods, just eyeballed it and tasted. The Joy of Pickling recipe started out tasting really pretty good but after a few days in the fridge had a sort of pasty-looking (unappealing) juice. There, I thought it was the ingredients I used. You or somebody here warned me against using a pepper paste so I used a different powder type that I found at our local store. It is hard to tell if the powder had the same additive you warned me about or if it were the age of the product.

I may look into a fermentation crock as you suggested. Like I said, I adore kimchee but also kraut and if it were readily available I would eat more of it. I have a jar of store bought kimchee in the fridge but it is bleh. I still eat it but keep dreaming of when we were at Fort Campbell (large Asian/Korean community) and would simply go to one of the Asian markets and buy some that the owners of the market had put up. Each market offered a different twist, a different family recipe. Sigh.

Also, several other questions, LOL. With the fermentation crocks, do you still get the scum etc as you might with another type of bucket or large container? Part of the appeal of BJ's method was there was none of that any of the times I've done kraut that way. The one time I used a large food-grade bucket (kraut), I had some scum and mold on the top. Once I got over the visual, I scooped that off and used the stuff a few inches down and it was delicious. Second question for Dave specifically, do you use the Korean shrimp in yours? If I've had kimchee with that in it, I didn't know it. I just ask because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to find it anywhere here and it says it is a refrigerated item so doubt I could order it. Lastly, I decided to order the actual Korean red pepper powder online instead of scraping around local stores to find a substitute. Do you get the fine or coarse or a matter of taste? Thanks for everyone's patience!

IME texture issues are usually a methodology issue, not a contents issue. Methodology includes container sealing and/or overly warm ambient air temps during fermenting. Sure contents could contribute IF they are overly high in pathogenic bacteria when added. But unless it is extreme even that can usually be overcome if the proper air temps and an air-tight seal are provided so that beneficial bacteria can develop rapidly. Even time isn't a big factor when it comes to texture. Sure 8 week ferments are a bit softer than 2 week ferments but the crunch is still there.

Further decline in texture. once finished fermenting, usually indicates pathogenic contamination of some kind from air exposure. A successful ferment is keeping a positive growth pattern of beneficial bacteria going and preventing exposure to air borne pathogenic bacteria as much as possible and consume it within a reasonable amount of time. The only other option is to stop it at the ideal point of fermentation and then vacuum seal it in some fashion. Without that air-tight seal any ferment will eventually go bad.

No a good crock - and there are many bad ones too - does not allow for any scum to form since it is completely sealed off from the air as long as you maintain the water seal on it.

Dave

Thanks Dave. Any recommendations that won't break the bank? Like in the $100 or under range for a starter to see if I like it and would use it?

Well, I just bit the bullet and ordered a TSM German Style Fermentation Harvest Pot, 10 liter. It had good reviews, was the right price, and was the right size. I'm excited to try it out for both kimchee and kraut. Historically I've only used my own garden produce aside from one time that I bought from the store with poor kraut results. Does anyone here use store bought ingredients? Lori, who will not ask anymore questions on the subject, promise.

Not familiar with that model. Does it have the water seal channel? Did you also order the weight stones? Some include them, some models require a separate purchase for them.

Dave

Yes, Dave, I looked specifically for the water seal you mentioned. It does come with stones. I'm pretty excited to use it!!

Lori, I hope your kimchee is exactly what you want it to be. I don't eat the stuff, but my DH loves it. He makes it different every time, depending on what is available. Here in Michigan fresh local produce is hard to come by this time of year, so he does buy Napa and daikon radish, and uses carrots and turnips from our storage. He also finally went online and bought gochujang. He says his is good, and crunchy even with storebought produce, so I'm taking his word for it!

I'm in charge of kraut and he's in charge of kimchee, and so we're both happily fermenting, LOL.

Annie

Thanks, Annie! I did go buy some cabbage for kraut and will see how that turns out. I've ordered seed for Napa cabbage, you can't find it around here this time of year, we live in a very rural community. What s gochujang and what does it add to the mix? Lori

My ex-husband was Korean, so I made kimchee occasionally. Here is how I made it:

1 head of Napa cabbage, halved lengthwise (Sometimes the cabbage is cut up into smaller pieces, but it is not as good or as crispy that way, and most Koreans would never make it that way at home.)

About 1/3 cup coarse salt

3 garlic cloves, sliced

6 green onions, sliced

3 tablespoons chili powder, or whatever amount desired for degree of spiciness you like (I bought this at the Korean market, but the kind sold at American grocery stores is fine. It seems to me that Asian chili peppers taste slightly different, but not much)

1 tbsp. sugar

may add fish sauce, radishes, carrots, oysters, shrimp, really anything.

Sprinkle salt all over cabbage sections, lifting leaves to sprinkle inside. Let stand at room temp for 3 hrs in a dish large enough to hold the substantial liquid that will accumulate. Turn occasionally. Then rinse cabbage in cold water and firmly press out liquid. Set aside.

mix together all other ingredientsin a bowl, adding enough hot water to make a paste. Rub this all over the outside of the cabbage and between the leaves. Then take the outer leaves and fold them over to enclose the stuffing.

Put that into a large glass container or Tupperware. Cover tightly. Leave out on counter for 2 days, then refrigerate 5 days before eating.

My ex liked oysters added, and many others things can be added, depending on family and regional preferences. Generally, the farther South one goes in Korea, the spicier the kimchee. This recipe seemed fairly authentic and right to him. He's from Soeul. Sometimes, it came out too salty, maybe because I didn't rinse well enough. I've never used a crock, but, historically, women in Korea used to put the kimchee in earthenware jars and bury them for storage during winter before refrigeration existed. Kimchee is traditionally made in early winter, called "kimchang chol" and is meant to last through the winter, when food used to be scarce. Also, I've seen books of recipes for just kimchee, so you might take a look at those (try Amazon) if you really like kimchee. There are literally hundreds of types of kimchee. I have combined a couple of recipes from different Korean cookbooks.

Hope this helps! Oh, I wouldn't trust a recipe from a cookbook that isn't by someone Korean.

Also, you asked about fine or course chili powder. I assume by course, you mean the flakes? I have only used the powder, but looking in my Korean cookbooks just now, I found one recipe that uses a combination of powder and flakes, so I think either is okay and authentic.

Also, I guess I should add that my recipe isn't for long-term, sterilized, sealed canning of kimchee, I only made it to store in the refrigerator and eat within a couple of weeks. So, this might not work right if you wanted to do that, since the ingredients have to chemically interact properly for canned products to remain safe to eat when canned long term.