hey!!! .. little early in my MI experience .... if you succeed wildly ... they might be ready to go outside long before MI weather will allow such ....

when i did such ... in livonia.. i found 3/1 to be a better start date .... so they could go out around 6/1 ... when.. usually.. all issues of frost freeze are over ...

try to keep the seedlings about 2 inches from the lights... adjusting one or the other as needed ....

ken

i figured you knew how ... but i wanted to point out.. for other readers ... the TIMING ISSUE ...

its better to end up with small plants late ... rather than huge plants way to early to go outside ...

its a zone thing ...

ken

Ken and MXK3 - Nice to hear someone is starting some seed. I'm almost there, but haven't got my new light set up, maybe later today. Heliotrope is one of my favorite annuals too. There is a local nursery here that starts large 6 packs of Heliotrope and charges $18. for them! So I haven't been buying them all too often.

I'm just a 1/2 zone ahead of you I guess, MXK3, I'm wondering when I would start some too. I don't have seed right now. How long do they take to germinate and do you use a heating pad for them?

Ken - Could you explain why is having a small plant by starting seeds closer to spring, then to start them earlier and end up with large plants by the time you want to plant them out? Is it because you take the chance that they are going to slow down their rate of growth as they start to get a little pot bound? Couldn't you pot them to a larger pot to avoid that?

See, I disagree. The whole point of annuals is the FLOWER DISPLAY. If the annuals are *too* puny at transplant time, flower production won't get going until the summer flowering season is well underway, perhaps almost over - what's the point of that.

Not to say I haven't ever set out small transplants, I certainly have - there are some plants that are strong transplants but a little on the smaller size but eventually catch up nicely (e.g. browallia, New Guinea impatiens); heliotrope, however, is not one of them IME. So, while I do agree it isn't advisable to start seeds too early indoors, sometimes it is warranted, and though my trials in the past with seed-grown heliotrope I'm thinking this may be one of those times. Having a light cart helps immensely with the stretching/spindliness issue with indoor-started seedlings or cuttings.

prariemoon - I don't remember how long germination took the last time I tried (which was a few years ago IIRC). I don't use heat mats, the bulbs on the light cart generate enough heat.

Thanks mxk3. I hope you will update your thread when you see how it all works out this season.

Heliotrope can take up to 20 days to germinate and advice is to sow indoors. People grow them as house plants in winter or grow cuttings taken in summer indoors in winter so...I'd say you are exactly on the right track with what you are doing.

I started seeds too, this is one of my favorite things to do too. I've got a couple perennials just now starting to grow indoors and plan to sow some deep maroon celosia in about a week. In Oklahoma a head start is desirable, getting the plants in the ground ASAP & established before it heats up which can be early here along with dry conditions and wind. Small seedlings don't do well if planted too late.

I found an easy space saving way to keep the seeds consistently warm for quick germination is to place them in damp coffee filters inside ziplock baggies then place the bags stacked up in an uncovered flat container close to the heater vent which is right under a big window for light. You can see right through the filters to check daily for any germination and prick out the germinated seeds at the first sign. I did that yesterday on the first ones to germinate, the pots are just starting to get lined up. I'm fortunate in that I have a large south window -- we gets lots of winter sun once January is over + there is a ceiling fan in there right over the area. I put the pots on a large drafting table that is just the right height.

http://www.chestnut-sw.com/seedhp.htm

I just ran across this useful guide while checking out the celosia seeds. Last year I bought two six pack of plants from Farmer's Market but got them in the ground rather late, none got the roots established before it got hot but at least I got a few seeds. These had deep red stems, leaves and burgundy flowers.

I figure with 14 days to germinate + 8 weeks to get to transplant size + a week or two to harden off (and whisk inside if the temps drop at night) I should go ahead and sow them today so I can get them in the ground in early April which is my goal. Hopefully I will have better luck than I did last year, I really liked that deep red color.

I've had some of the heliotrope germinate already - now it's the loooong tending period to get them to blooming size...

Oh, so it only took a week to germinate? That's great. So do they get planted outside mid to late April? So another 2 to 2 1/2 months. Did they give you good germination?

Do you start veggie starts too to keep them company? Peppers and onions need the long lead time too.

Thanks Mxk. :-) Good luck

No, way too early up here to set out tender annuals in April. The stores have started selling in late April in recent years, but it's stiil too cold. It may or may not frost but the ground is still too cold and wet for warm-season annuals and vegetables. (cold-season veggies can go in as long as the soil can be worked). I usually take a week off in 2nd or 3rd week of May to work on planting, for a few years in a row it was a running joke that I'm on vacation so it will rain - happened every single year! Some annuals will cr*p out if it's too wet like that, like vinca, even impatiens did poorly one year for me because it rained so much in May, I think I had to replant the impatiens that one year but I don't remember. Anyway, I usually plant the 3rd or 4th week in May to be on the safe side, I don't have time to be running out there and covering plants - we do get May frosts up here, not often but entirely possible, I remember one year my beautiful Halcyon hostas got toasted in May from frost. Plus, the annuals need that warm soil, and that usually doesn't happen until mid-May or so around here unless planting in pots, so I may start planting in pots a little earlier (but not much earlier), weather depending.

So, no other seeds will be started by me yet with the possible exception of some Maverick geraniums. I haven't grown geraniums from seed for a long time, and I believe they need to be started quite early but I don't remember, I have to look at the seed packet when it arrives and cross-reference with some books I have. Most of my annuals gets started 8 or 10 weeks prior to planting-out time, veggies at 6 to 8 weeks or less depending on the veggie (cukes would be 4 weeks prior). I'll probably sit down beginning of March and come up with my schedule of what week to sow what.

Mxk3 - I was forgetting that heliotrope was a tender annual. I’m winter sowing a lot and whenever I have germination, and the ground is ready, I can plant out pretty soon after that, but I don't try heliotrope. Which is probably more toward the end of April, beginning of May. I start lettuces and brassicas. I should already have direct sown peas in the ground by mid April at least. I have raised beds that warm up early and stay dry, for vegetables. And for the most part, I grow perennials, although last year, I did do more sunflowers and zinnias direct sown.

Annuals, like heliotrope I use in pots. And I try to get some pansies and other cold tolerant annuals at the nursery as soon as they sell them, potted up. I’ve never had much luck in starting them from seed and having them ready to plant early. That I would love to accomplish, I love pansies. Pots of pansies will keep me happy until it’s warm enough for other annuals.

That must be very frustrating to take the time off to get your garden started and it rains! :-( I don’t ever seem to get enough rain. I do seem to remember a cloudy, rainy May not too long ago, though, and the tomatoes and peppers didn’t do well that year.

I can remember a few springs, having to run out and cover everything. I guess I gamble a little, to get a chance to get things out early. Sometimes it works and sometimes I cover, but I haven’t lost plants, so I can’t complain.

This winter has been so mild so far, but last year, it seemed mild until Feb/Mar, so I guess we still can’t tell how spring is going to shape up. I think you have a little different climate there in MI then I do here in MA, even though we seem to be the same zone.

I am really looking forward to spring and already starting to feel the itch to get out there. [g] So it’s a good thing to have lights to start some seeds under!