Is a clivus system a possibility?
http://www.clivusmultrum.com/products-services.php

Talk to contractors or similar professionals, at least 3.

There has to be SOME way to handle your sewage.

Curious what state/city you live in. I have never heard of a situation where an existing house could not be grandfathered in. Upgrades maybe, but they can't just make you move out of your house.

I would think you would be able to install a holding tank and have it pumped once a month or however often it is needed. There are plenty of homes built with water on 3 or 4 sides of it with minimal yard, some of which are of new construction, so there is a solution I am just not sure what it would be. Your only issue is that it is a rental and not a primary place of residence which means that forcing you to tear down the house isn't depriving you of your home and therefore the grandfather clauses may not apply for that reason but that is totally dependent on your location.

this is central florida. its a rental, not my primary residence. engineer comes out thursday. we''ll see, but it doesn't look good. its wetlands. water table is high. we're 16 feet above sea level. above ground tank is likely allowed for temp purposes, not likely for permanent use. pumping is $250 a shot. checking out the clivus. i'll ask the engineer if its an option. looks pricey.

They made us move out of our houses after the big flood, but because they did, they bought the land the houses sat on. Not me specifically, but the neighborhood across the street. Good luck! I hope you can recoup some costs somehow!

the septic/drain field guys that came
back today shook their heads and said that the health dept is not
likely to issue a variance. the H dept engineer is not on the schedule yet, but probably next week.

also, it appears the tenants don't want to move even though they face
constant threat of backed up sewage. they act like they don't
understand, but i think they just want grounds to sue us so we will have
to pay their expenses to move. even if the health dept tells them they must move, we are liable for the loss of their residence since we have a lease. while we have worked with the
tenants every step of the way to clean up the mess after the septic backed up and flooded the house, pump the tank to
buy them time and not require them to pay rent this month, they won't
communicate with us, refusing to respond to our calls. i spoke with my
attorney and he said if we can get them to leave
that would be great but that even if the health dept condemned the house
and forced the tenants out, the tenants could sue us for relocation
costs. we are already taking at least a $100K hit on the value of our land - likely more as i don't know why anyone would pay anything for it now - it was worth about $200K with the house. on top of that we may have to pay for the
tenants
moving expenses. we can't continue to pump the tank out every 3 weeks. Its expensive, and the lid is at risk of breaking each time since they have to break the mortar that seals the lid. after pumping they have to replace the lid and re-mortar it again. its not going to hold up if that has to be done every three weeks. when we just had it pumped they broke the lid and apparently, they can still make us pay for it since it is an inherent risk

so what do i have here? a nice 1200 sq ft. storage unit where i can cook but not clean? what do you do with an otherwise normal house with a perfectly good a/c and all other amenities but no sewage?

This happened to a neighbor of mine. They live near a creek, and their leech field became saturated. They had to have the ENTIRE leech field removed. They had a tripple sized tank installed, and completely new agrigate brought in. I believe their home owner's insurance paid for some of it, but the total cost was on the order of $20k.

Cheers,

Werner

if it was a $20K fix, i'd eat it. its still better than my property value dropping from $200K to 0. however, it sounds like your neighbors were actually able to put the new field where the existing one had been- since they had to have it dug out and new aggregate put in. in our case, i do not believe they will allow us to do that. the drain field is between the creek and the house. the creek is 20 feet from the house. the drain field is as close as 8 feet to the creek in one spot. there is no other legal place to put the drain field. the entire stretch of land where the house sits between the pond and the creek is 70'. you have the entire piece of property is ineligible for a drain field/septic under current code. that is the problem. if we don't get a variance (not likely we would) no one will ever be able to live on that piece of property. the county is very unlikely to bring sewage out for a decade or more - if ever. this is florida. environmental laws regarding water are very strict now. if/when they ever bring sewage out... it would be at least 200 ft of sewage pipe from the road to the house.

there is no doubt we've gotten a good value from the house and property already. we bought it for a great price in 1996 knowing it needed work - which we've accomplished over the years. we didn't know where they septic/drain field even was until we owned it for 3 years and first had it pumped. we've rented it out for the past 20, always generating a positive cash flow. mortgage was paid off in 2007. our primary intent in purchasing it is that our property is adjacent. there is a right of way through the rental property for our driveway in order to give us access. we bought it to give us control over who lives next door.

my question is, what could we do with the house knowing we can't run water/flush a toilet? its a classic 1964 concrete block home. structurally sound. we just put a new roof on it <sigh> you can cook, , you can run electricity, you can cool it down with a/c you can enjoy a fire in the fireplace. you just can't put anything down a drain. they will red tag it and take away its certificate of occupancy. i am hoping they won't condemn it and make us demolish it.

I was about to say "move the house" until I saw 'concrete block.' Bummer.

Rustic cabin? In the mountains they use composting toilets where the ground is to hard to put in septic systems or sewer lines. You do that and install a grey water tank that would have to be pumped out and you can use it as rustic cabin. Rent it out online as a family vacation home if your close to anything popular and if not rent it out as a rustic retreat for those he need to get away from the grind of it all. It sounds like between the creek and the pond that it is a peaceful spot so it may just work.

yes, it is very charming and peaceful. we've never had problems renting it out. i am not sure if composting toilets are legal in florida but that is something we need to investigate. even before this problem we've thought about renting it as an eco-vacation place. we are very near hiking and biking trails, rivers and lakes good for canoeing and kayaking and the beach is only 45 minutes away. you can fish in the pond but only small bass. there are grass carp in there - lots of them, but they don't bite. wildlife on the property include wood storks, herons, egrets, ibis', gators, snapping turtles, deer, otter, and wild boar. bear and coyotes are starting to move in nearby, but we don't think we've had any on the property. 2 very rare florida panthers have been found nearby in the past 10 years - unfortunately dead on the roadside.

in the short term, once we get the tenants out (another nightmare - another story) the car port will be a good place to park the tractor and the house will make a great place for my husband's band practice. i'd just like for it to serve a more functional and profitable purpose.

It seems like there should be either a govt agency or nonprofit water protection group with a wider vision than local permitting authorities, that can give you some advice and ideas on solutions. Florida has enough population, vacation homes and sensitive water resources that there should be some resources.

For starters, here's the FL DEP Wastewater Program

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/wastewater/index.htm

Here's their Septic System Program

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/wastewater/dom/septic.htm

Which I see has a link to the FL Dept of Health's Bureau of Onsite Sewage Programs.

There may be some helpful info on these web pages or you can call them and ask for help. Explain that you have an older house and you're looking for creative ideas to fix this problem. Heck, they may even have no-interest loans available if you can find a technology that will satisfy the inspectors. Often times a larger agency (at the state level) will have a wider view, and may even have someone familiar with this type of problem whose job it is to help you get it done using acceptable types of fixes, rather that just saying no. "Outreach and assistance" rather than regulators is what you're looking for.

Have you considered putting an air pump in the septic tank and a high dose of bacteria? We've had it happen in our previous house - started noticing massive grass growth and puddles. Installed an air pump (it's like an oversized aquarium bubbler), a high dose of bacteria - after a few weeks, the puddling went away as the bacteria ate their way through the leeching field.

Are you permitted to install a mound system? This has been done for a number of homes in my county. In some locations, our soil plugs and the leachant bed fails. If there isn't enough room to move over and install another leachant bed, our county allows a mound system. This has saved many older homes that were once rural and now surrounded by subdivisions.

Aerobic treatment unit, based on the concept that Tony V suggested. The water comes out clean enough to be sprinkled on the surface. Local authorities would know all about these, and might have a brand they approve.

UPDATE:

the engineer we hired has obtained a variance for us to proceed with the permit - which we have just pulled! it is good for 3 months with a 3 month extension. that gives us some time to stockpile more cash reserves (we hate loans/debt). its really unbelievable we qualified given this is a rental property not an owner occupied residence. we were told the timing is is good, because variances like this won't be allowed in the not too distant future. i am counting on it lasting a long time - i bet urban services come out our way before it sees its end of life. development is encroaching but the boundary hasn't moved.

we learned the drain field was end of life when (not because) the house flooded. the tenants woke up with 1-2 inches of water/sewage throughout most of this 1200 sq ft home. they blamed it on the rain and the saturation of the drain field. while a saturated drain field would contribute to the water not being able to adequately flow out of the house - heavy rain cannot back up the contents of a 1000 gallon septic tank into the house (especially in a 5 hour period). its physically impossible given the amount of pressure needed. the floodwaters have to have originated from within the house. a single toilet flush backing up won't fill the house with 1-2 inches of water - it would only backup and dump a couple gallons on the bathroom floor. while the tenants wouldn't admit it - the culprit is most likely a toilet that was left running. that is one thing that the county, our private engineer and two septic contractors have verified as a distinct possibility. both contractors told us that from their experience, a running toilet is the primary reason for a septic backup that literally floods a house - especially at the level of flooding that occurred . They also told us that while we need a new drain field, it won't protect us from something like that. it can happen with a new one, they can only absorb so much so fast.

so now my next question is there a device that can actually detect a leak as it happens and shut the water off into the tank - or at least set off an alarm? leak detector tablets only show you IF there is a leak. they don't prevent the water from running. i've never met a fail-safe flapper.

one estimate is $7K the other is $8K. the county's variance changed the setback requirements from 75 down to 35 feet - insanely low. for a 2/2 they only required a 150 sq ft field and a mound less than a foot high. recommended by both contractors is a 300 sq ft field and a mound about twice as high (which we are opting for). we will have to extend the pipes from the house to a new septic tank by about 20 feet. the old tank is perfectly good but is too close to the creek to safely move without risking a major ground/soil collapse into the creek. the lower estimate involves a plastic replacement tank which we think is not a good idea with our water table. it could pop out when the tank is pumped. its a risk with a concrete one as well, but not nearly as high. we'll need a second tank for the lift station required. that means a pump, and having to string power out to it. we'll get risers installed for easier access to the tanks. the septic tank will be same size as the last one 1000 gallons, the second tank about half that.

i suspect the costs will eventually be higher as you never know just how much soil will be needed and other unexpected complications. still way cheaper than we were anticipating - but i haven't exhaled yet.

If you haven't been doing so already, Document every last thing you do. Apparently trivial. Or not.

I'm a little late to the party but ... would rerouting the creek give you enough space to put your field in?

re-routing the creek is definitely not an option. this is a highly regulated environmentally sensitive area - which is why we were amazed we could get a drain field permit , but thankfully we did. any change to a waterway is an even bigger hurdle. it requires a variance and permit from the st john's river water management district. i am in florida. the creek flows into lake jesup which is part of the st john's river.

only folks able to get variances that directly affect waterways in this day and age are the developers who lobby the authority's board members - and the county commission.

No kidding, rerouting a stream would also require a federal 404 permit from the Army Corps of Engineers. It would be easier to figure out how to turn your poop into gold. haha

Whatever you do... don't go cheap on it. Tell the engineer that you want it to last a lifetime because you won't get a 2nd chance the next time it occurs. Go cheap and it breaks, you may have what you fear, a 200k dollar lump of coal.

geeze, thought i'd replied to this two days ago. don't know where my post went!

not going cheap - estimate we're going with is $8K but i don't doubt it will cost more when all is said and done. although its much cheaper than i thought it would be. however we all know drain fields don't last a lifetime. i expect that for one that is well taken care of 25 years is a fair expectation. we've had two houses that had drain fields that lasted 50 years each - way beyond expectations. the county could bring sewage out here in another 10-20 years, maybe.

the work will get started in the next month or so. right now we're doing some grading of the property in areas we won't be able to access with the tractor once the new drain field goes in.

This is the system that was just put into all units in our condo. I can attest to the fact they do work. (Just know that sometimes if the aim is not 100% it can also shut off the unit, depending on where the sensor is. This is not from personal knowledge but from our front desk having to reset several water cops in other units. I know. TMI)

Water Cop

PS: Going to the state gov in FL probably won't do much either as the state gov in FL is just a step above useless. ;)

I don't live in FL but I gotta say that most people don't have any idea all the stuff that is taken care of on a daily basis by state and local govt. Yeah, sometimes they suck, and I have first hand knowledge. Just try living life for ONE DAY without it though and you'd find out pretty quick how bad we need it.

i know how much i pay in property taxes and what i get in return. when you live in a rural area, you are speck to be flicked off your county commissioner's suit lapel. the density of constituency isn't enough to care whether those residents vote for him/her or not.

OK, I can see that. I was responding to cpartist's post above that the FL state govt. is 'a step above useless.' Most people have little idea what actually goes on and few think about what services they are actually benefitting from.