I wonder if the father son team are employees or subcontractors. Regardless delay payment until the owner meets you at the house. I hate people like this that make our whole industry look sleazy.

Don't pay a single dime to anyone. And don't let them back into your home. Call the company directly and see what they have to say.

And yes file a complaint.

BBB complaint for sure!

Their license is current with the state but the installers who worked on your home have to be licensed as well. They should have their license and insurance information on file but if not, ask them for it directly. Are you getting any satisfaction from them or are they the ones asking only for payment? If they're not responding to you, call the county and ask with whom you file a complaint against these contractors. Don't hand them another dime, even if they threaten you with a lien. That workmanship is beyond shoddy and something has to be done to rectify it.

Ellsworth- The father/son team- at least the father is directly employed by the company. The son, I am not sure. I have written an email with photos to the owner/contractor today and have not received a response. I also wrote an email to the owner last week, he responded with a 730 a.m. phone call and said everything would be taken care of... however, we have not had anyone working since but have had communication with the 'site mgr' only in regards to money.

The site mgr called today and wants to come out tomorrow for a 'punch list'. There is so much wrong, that I don't see rectifying some things without total replacement. Or ..accepting a few band-aids and paying them.

Kati. I am standing my ground. Thank you for your help and assistance. Thank you again to all who have validated my concerns.

Update: I am told that workers can work under the companies General Contractor license without having to be licensed individually. So the father and son, if filing W-2's listing the construction co. as employer- No license required.

The owner is coming out on Thursday to look at the workmanship. He said he expects 4k installment at that time.

If the work isn't complete he doesn't get paid. You aren't being mean you are being smart. Of course minor things can wait for final punch, I would just explain that there is now too many unfinished things that the remaining money wouldn't cover their repair if you had to find someone else to complete the project. I will often bill for completion phase of a project if I am 95% complete because the final punch can handle hanging the back ordered chandelier or the front door we haven't painted to protect it during the project. You have lots of issues due to sloppy install that need to get resolved before the project can resume.

Thank you, Ellsworth-Hallett. He is giving me the impression that I would be breaking contract therefore breaking law??

Thank you Presidio Tile & Stone. He asked that I have professionals who have given their opinion as to sloppy workmanship here on Thursday so that he can meet with them as well. He says they are slandering his company.

His sloppy work is his own undoing. He can 'expect' the $4K payment all he wants. I mean really... who put screws to the finished face of nice cabinets? File your complaint and email the owner and tell him not to come back until he's heard from the inspector. And then don't let them back on your property no matter how much he tries to bully you.

The general contractor whose licensing they are working under will then assume the liability for the work. Once again I say, contact your state contractor's board and report him! People like that give the rest of us legitimate firms a bad rap.

Unless the contractor is a large firm, it is pretty rare for him to have ''employees'' rather than sub-contractors. That's a pressure point if he is calling them employees and paying them as subs. The IRS takes a very dim view of that.

Has the owner even been on site during any of the work?

No the owner has never been onsite. He has what he calls a site mgr. , but he, also, has only been out two times - once before job began and then to collect. Although, we did voice our concerns at that time.

Now that I am thinking about it, it may be that 'Eric' is in some sort of sub-contractor status. Because the site mgr. stated that he doesn't get paid until the job is done. But on another occasion, when talking about a punch out person, he stated that they are paid every 2 weeks.

My father and brother will be here on Thurs. I will allow this man to have a look. If I continue to get lip service, I will move forward with filing whatever is necessary. No money will exchange hands on Thurs. . This is certain.

Taking advantage of people by bullying them makes me sick. The work is unacceptable.

I hope someone can be with you when they come back to look at the work so that you don't feel intimidated.

If you haven't paid them, don't. Don't be intimidated. Tell them they're not finished until you're satisfied the work is done properly. Your pictures make it clear they're not through or doing quality work. DO take more pictures and document all the problems.

Not a lawyer, but I believe it is highly unlikely they'd sue you when their work is clearly unacceptable. (Even if the contractor asserts theft of services or some sort of legal jargon, they must PROVE their case and your pictures proving they've been substituting shoddy work and substandard materials for what you agreed upon should prevent them from prevailing.) YOU are not responsible for paying the contractor's employees their weekly salary -- the owner of the company that is supposed to be doing the work is responsible for paying his own hired help and the owner of the contracting company is responsible for seeing the work is done properly

If you got a loan to get this work done, you might consider talking with your lender and see what, if anything, it would cost you for the inspector they commonly employ to take a look at the project and provide his opinion.

Do seriously consider accepting help from your father and/or brother in dealing with this situation.

Do start writing down the date and time every time you try to call the contractor -- his not returning your call may well indicate he's not licensed or local. You might want to talk with the local public official in charge of issuing business licenses and see. If he isn't licensed, don't hesitate to let him know you know it.

Do make a list of all the problems and take more pictures of every problem.

It's good to know you'll have someone with you Rhonda. I would try to clarify with him the status of the "employees". I seriously doubt they're W2 employees, which means they have to be licensed and insured as well. Although I'm not positive, I would venture to guess that liability will extend to the owner of the company as well since he knowingly used unlicensed subcontractors to perform the work. I wish you luck tomorrow.

Whether the father son team are employees or subs, licensed or unlicensed doesn't matter. You hired and paid a licensed contractor directly. He can have the work done by whomever he chooses except licensed trades (plumbing, electrical) cabinet and tile install is not a licensed trade. You hired and paid him only so it isn't worth discussing the employment status of his workers. You DO need to emphasize the shoddy work and lack of responsiveness. Make a concise punch list that can be emailed to him so you have a record.

Thank you, Kati and Ellsworth- Yes, I hired the licensed contractor. He says that they are working under his license. And that they CAN do minor plumbing and electric under his license ( don't know about that).

What is interesting is that I read a few BBB reviews today and all of the folks who made complaints - Which are similar to mine- were made out to be dirty, wanting something for nothing, hard to work with people. He tried to discredit every one of them and even put a lien on an older man's home for 260.00!!!

I have learned the hard way through the years that these slimy- snakes usually win in the end. They know how to play dirty and unfairly. They don't care about anyone but themselves. I do not look forward to tomorrow. I also went through the County Court records and found 4 cases where he has been sued. I really don't think my health could take that stress. In this system, I have found there isn't justice and the 'good guy' rarely comes out in front.

I'll report back tomorrow after the meeting. Appreciate all of you!

Oh and I did make a punch list- x 2. I also emailed him photos. He doesn't respond by email (no paper trail). He did, however, respond after my 2nd attempt (by phone) at asking him what he thought. :)

I think it's very much worth fighting. No matter the outcome, at least you have the knowledge that did what you could do.

How did your meeting go?

The meeting went well. The owner said that he could not believe that the man that he knows did this work. I am getting a new worker and helper. They will be removing and replacing all flooring. Re-doing my back- splash and addressing cabinets. Now, seeing is believing... I will keep updating.

thank each of you who gave your opinion and advice- I appreciate it so very much!

Please Please!!!! Do not pay them

You didn't give any more money did you?

no.

I so have my fingers crossed for you. I'll look forward to your next update. Good luck!

Update: So it has been another week and this is what has happened on my kitchen re-model (re-do) so far. I have approx 350-400 sq feet of flooring tile. The tile that we used is a 18x16 rectified porcelain tile. We were told by the owner and were in agreement that all of the flooring would have to be removed and we start over.

Then I received a VM from the owner stating that our new worker and a field boss would be coming out to look at the situation and see if it could possibly be salvaged. Well, they guys out here said 'no, let's start fresh there is too much here that is done improperly to repair' . Then I see all of this blue painters tape all over the floor. They literally hand chiseled each square out and this was over 90% of the tile. This has taken them the entire week and they are still not done taking out and re-setting.

I asked our new worker why they were doing this in such a time consuming way in order to save less than 10% of the tile. He responded that he did not know, was only doing as told by the 'boss'. This isn't the owner, this is his construction mgr. who is fluffing out his wings and can't get over his ego.(The same man that told me that he could fix the grout by grouting over grout)

The new worker is much better than the former and the guys here that were inspecting were flabbergasted at what they saw. The new guy told me the center chalk line was off by 6 inches! So far the floor appears to look somewhat better, but there are still issues. It hasn't been grouted yet, but I can see that some grout lines will be significantly larger than others. A rectified tile is a tile with a sharp edge that is supposed to allow a thin grout line. I was told that I can't have that.

The owner hasn't called back in regards to the cabinets. I emailed and was told that he was out sick. The back splash or other jobs that need to be completed have not been touched. Now, the new worker that we had is being pulled off of this job and is being placed somewhere else. His 'helper' is finishing the floor tomorrow.

Another question: Where the back splash meets the cupboard bottoms and where the backsplash meets the counter top this should be caulked as I understand it and not grouted? As the owner left last week, he said he expects 4000.00 when this floor is grouted on Monday. I am of the mind to hold the remaining monies until the job is completed to my satisfaction- What say you? So sorry for the length of this post - It's a lengthy remodel :)

Hi Rhonda. Good to hear from you again. Is there anything in the contract that states the size of the grout lines? It seems ridiculous to me as well that they're trying to save 10% of your tile instead of chiseling out the whole thing and redoing it correctly. They could have had the whole floor up and back down in 3 days.

I believe you're correct regarding the caulk versus grout. Because the cabinets will expand and contract, the caulking is more flexible than the grout and won't crack.

I definitely wouldn't give him any money until the job is complete. At best, you might release a portion if the floor is done to your satisfaction but I'd be worried that if they break a tile or something while completing the job, you wouldn't be able to get them to repair it if they've been paid for that portion of the job. Since they're putting the other worker on another job, how long is it going to be before they get back to yours? That's one more reason not to pay them. If they have your money, who knows how long it will be until they come back!

Do not pay until all past transgressions are fixed. Not negotiable!

I STILL think you need to file a complaint with Registrar of Contractors (or whatever they're called in your state.) The inspector comes out and notes all the issues. He then makes the contractor do it right, or suffer the consequences. The contractor doesnt want to have his license suspended or revoked... Filing a complaint is your best recourse. I said that weeks ago.

actually, a lien CAN be put on your home for nonpayment if you do not honor the contract, but do not give him another dime, stop any further progress. first off you need to contact the better business bureau. The people that are telling you to seek legal council are exactly right. Remember, you are in a legally binding contract. Mechanics can also do this with cars. understand that the work that is being done is substandard, doesn't opt you out of the contract. legal is definite. don't let him take you to court, have the upper hand. Do not hire another contractor. if this business has insurance, the insurance company will hire a different contractor for you. Get legal help immediately. I know it may be an eye sore, tolerate it until issue has been handled. Keep your money.

Contractor's Board. Definitely report them or someone else will end up in the same predicament.

Rhonda- can you give us an update? I've been thinking about you and that kitchen of yours.

So glad you asked Marcia. I was going to dig up this thread today and ask myself!

Hi There- And thank you for asking. Well, first of all, when I refused payment, a lien was drawn up to be placed on my home. I spoke to a construction attorney and he already has another client that he is representing with complaints against this company. He expressed that the business is known to file liens to get their way. The attorney advised me to try to work it out with them so that they were allowed to complete the contract. Otherwise, there will be complications. Even so, if the contract is completed unsuccessfully, it would be my responsibility to pay 250.00- 350.00 hourly to have representation.

In short, I have had 2 good workers- 1 a back splash tile man and one a finish carpenter here over the last week completing the unfinished work. They have been told that they are not to do any repairs (per their boss). Tomorrow, a rep from the cabinet company is coming out with the owner to assess the cabinets. The floor is still a mess after the second time around. We will probably have to eat crow and hire a reputable tiler to re-do after we see what is going on with the cabinets.

Long story, I know. But the laws in this case, are not in favor of the innocent. Nothing I can do according to the attorney. Even filing a counter claim on a lien will cause stress that my health (i'm disabled) cannot take. Don't know if i mentioned it, but the

second floor, when uneven, the tiler was told to go over the grout on an angle to make the uneven tiles less noticeable. :) - still have broken drawers, drawers and cupboards without handles, damaged cabinets, and warped shelves.

It doesn't sound as though this is leaning in your favor so far Rhonda. I'm so sorry to hear that. If you can at least get the unfinished work done to your satisfaction, along with having the cabinets taken care of, it will be a big step in the right direction. Having to have the floor redone at your expense is ridiculous but hopefully you'll get it done right. If you need a referral for a tile guy, I have a great one who's really reasonable.

It's a shame that we as consumers have so little recourse. It seems that in a state that requires licenses and insurance from contractors, the only thing it seems to do is bring in revenue for the state.

This is so awful for you Rhonda. Have you considered contacting someone with local media - often the newspaper and/or local TV news crew will have a consumer's advocate who will report on these kinds of things. Might bring the pressure you need to get satisfaction, and at the very least, warn others of this con artist.

Thanks, Katie. It is true. The scales weigh in favor of the licensed contractor. A lien costs very little to file, but a lot to defend. Obviously, if I should get an attorney involved, the $$ add up to far more than the damage. In the end, the winner is each parties attorney(s) (no offense to attorneys) it's just how the system works. And the contractor apparently knows how to 'work it' too. Next time I will be sure to have everything in writing - including a lien clause.

I will take that tile recommendation if you don't mind. Thank you for all of the support everyone.

Man, my contractors are so careful with cabinets -- white glove work! I suspect that half of yours will need replacing! wow. Hopefully the rep. will want it done right, and they can work out a wholesale price for the contractor to pay. It's clearly on the installers!!

So sorry this happened to you. Sounds like you're doing what you can to get it made right -- holding firm and having somebody else as backup when possible are good steps. Legal cases are always a drag, so a last resort. Best is to end up with a kitchen, and then make sure you review and report this guy on every outlet you can find!!

Susan- I have thought of that... right now, I'm going to see what tomorrow brings and will go from there. I still owe a 2k final payment, so hopefully, that will be waived and I can apply it to the flooring. The cabinet boxes, i fear will not be replaced- but I think I will get new doors and shelving. fingers crossed.

thanks, acm. I am still documenting everything. There is also the option of small claims in the end, but I have a feeling that they know the ropes here as well.

Sorry for beating a dead horse- but did you file complaint with the Registrar of Contractors (or the contractor licensing agency in your state)? You still can...

You shouldnt have to wish..."fingers crossed" for good work, especially since you're paying for it. You have recourse. Its so much harder to get things rectified if you pay them then "hope" you'll prevail in small claims court. I realize you are disabled and dont need extra stress- which is why I keep saying to file the claim with the Registrar...they take over and deal directly with the contractor and it doesnt cost you anything.

Rhonda, I'll email you my contractor's info. I'll also keep my fingers crossed that this turns out in your favor as far as the cabinets go.

The state contractor's license board has a huge ability to impact a contractor's ability to work. It is the consumer's version of having the "lien" tool. I believe you can report him via email from your state contractor's website.

Thank you- I have called the licensing board. They do not list past investigations on the website, but in talking with a woman there, I can request prior complaints as well as file my own online I will see what transpires today and base my response on that.

Right now, I can't afford anyone to take me to court for non-payment or otherwise.

I totally unerstand. You are living the nightmare and we are just viewing it. Big difference. Wish you the best of luck in getting things put right!