Software
Houzz Logo Print
redcoatd

What now?

10 years ago

Hi all,

I had a long thread going last fall (https://www.houzz.com/discussions/please-advise-redoing-lawn-dsvw-vd~3313392) and figured it's time for another thread now that I let everything just grow over the winter.

The tall fescue mix did better than I thought, but it's not looking great imo. The front is better than the back. The grass in the back seems to be very small and hasn't really grown much.

Pictures here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fwwt5j05sxtxdze/AACEwl-UKXZlwA80eXRV46e3a?dl=0.

There is also quite a few of these kinds of grasses: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjtewr7fakjr99p/side%203.jpg?dl=0. Anyone know what type these are? How should I go about killing them?

I'm also concerned about the spots that are bare, and the possibility of more weeds getting established.

Reading over the old thread, I'm scratching my head to realize that I never did this part: "Apply 5 tablespoons of 20 Mule Team Borax per thousand square feet."

So, really looking for advise as to what to do from hear on out?

1) apply Milorganite / Borax now?

2) overseed now, with some top dressing?

3) I'm concerned about how sandy the soil is - is some places you can even see crystals! Does top dressing with compost really help the soil composition? Is it any better than using organic fertilizer? What's the best way to improve the soil long-term?

4) Should I apply pre-emergent now, instead of overseeding, in the hope of preventing weeds growing in the bare spots? Or maybe overseed with annual rye?

5) when should I spring fertilize? As you can see, the fescue is not very green. Some docs say don't fertilize tall fescue after Mar 15th?

6) any other suggestions gladly received!

cheers David

Comments (14)

  • 10 years ago

    Getting roots in the ground is the best way to improve your soil. So grass is good. So are weeds, but grass is better. Grass plants shed about 1/3 of their roots every year, so you can see how fast you can get a yard full of organic matter. More roots the better. And the deeper the roots the better. Deep infrequent watering helps with that as does mowing at the mower's highest setting. You have a yard that most people here would envy. I think you're on your way.

    Fertilize in mid to late May.

    Stop worrying about the sand. I bring sand in to my yard to improve it.

    Don't seed in the spring if you can avoid it. Spring seeding brings in summer weeds and pitifully weak grass. Grass needs many months to develop roots that will withstand summer heat.

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks dchall for the reply! The illustration of grass shedding roots was very helpful.

    As you can see from the pics, there are quite a lot of gaps in the grass, especially in some areas, so my thought was to overseed atleast those areas to stop weeds growing up where there are holes. Can you explain how spring seeding brings in summer weeds please?

    Also, can you help me understand the fertilize in May piece, please? The NC State turf files explicitly says don't fertilize tall fescue after Mar 15th? http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/turfgrasses/fine-fescue/lawn-maintenance. What am I missing?

    I fine it hard to stop worrying about the sand :D My underlying reason, I think, is that it seems like my soil doesn't support grass growing very well at all in much of the back. Maybe that's just ignorance on my part. But, for example, you can see on the photos on the side of the house where the old irrigation recesses were filled in with top soil (and later leveled) but clearer are much healthier than the surrounding dirt.

    thanks again,

    David

  • 10 years ago

    @morpheuspa: any thoughts on applyingMilorganite / Borax now?

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    The only way to improve the soil is by following an organic approach to lawn care. You can grow grass using chemicals, but you can not improve the Organic Matter content in the soil. The microbes in the soil and compost decompose the organic fertilizer, they produce nutrients, and the grass will take the elements needed to grow. Under an organic program you get between 1-2" of new soil every year, until there is enough biology in the soil that becomes self sustainable. That's what happens in nature.

    It looks like a new development, and in most cases the contractor removes all the top soil, and at the end of the project, they replace the good soil with mostly sand, and junk. That's why you can find glass, rocks, plastic and some other stuff.

    In my opinion, they fastest way to improve the soil is by bringing compost and not loam. Compost is finished and will not have weeds seeds if it is finished. Loam, soil or dirt, it can have lots of weeds, paint chemicals, etc... You will probably need aeration- re-seeding, topdress with compost and fertilization. Mow high during the season and don't bag the clippings since it adds all the Nitrogen needed for the season, and it will also help with the organic matter content. Grass clippings will not cause thatch organically, but it will in a chemical lawn.

    I hope this helps

  • 10 years ago

    Hi, thanks for the info! I'm actually pretty interested in adopting an organic approach - could you point me to a good place to learn about it / summary of the actual steps to take with my yard? How does the 1-2" of new soil appear every year?

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    J Gil-

    You are revealing yourself to be a deep well of misinformation.

  • 10 years ago

    ummm...uh oh...can you clarify what I'm missing please @yardtractor1?

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    @DavidandNneka.

    Here is a good video regarding an overview of sustainable turf grass management. It is very easy to understand and gives you great examples how to transition from chemical to organic, and how you can increase the organic matter content every year.

    Enjoy

    https://youtu.be/68cU0u5vsho




  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    David,

    Limiting the misinformation to just this thread:

    >>>You can grow grass using chemicals, but you can not improve the Organic Matter content in the soil. FALSE

    Any existing lawn is going to improve the organic content of the soil. Turf grasses slough of 1/3 to 1/2 of their root systems annually. The discarded roots and to a lesser extent, recycled top growth from grass clippings and dead blades add substantial organic matter to the soil. A properly maintained lawn using "chemical" fertilizers will result in a healthy turf producing abundant organic matter.

    >>> Grass clippings will not cause thatch organically, but it will in a chemical lawn. FALSE, really big time FALSE

    Clippings are grass blades. The blades are up to 90% water and they are the most tender part of the plant and are easily broken down by natural processes.

    Contrary to what "organic" zealots would have us believe, "chemically" fertilized lawns are not devoid of micro-organisms.

    Thatch most commonly occurs when high lignin containing organic matter in the top layer of soil becomes thick enough to impede water (an consequently nutrient) penetration. Spreading (rhizome producing) turf grasses are most susceptible and improper cultural practices are to blame--shallow watering and over application of N. It becomes an issue when the turf begins to root into that layer for water and nutrients, further impeding water penetration. Upon this layer becoming the root zone for the turf, the turf suffers dramatically due to water and nutrient availability.

    I have no idea how organics will create sand/silt or clay, major components of soil.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    @DavidandNneka

    Here is another informative video. It will explain how the soil food web works, with examples. It is mostly common sense. I think you can get a sense how the whole organic approach works. You can fast forward to 47:00. He talks about compost, compost tea and soil test.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VrgWa5ZY_U

  • 10 years ago

    A video by Paul Tukey? The same guy who sold subscriptions to his organic magazine, stopped publication, and didn't issue refunds? The guy who says sand and clay makes cement? Organic gurus are full of baseless exaggerations and misinformation. Think not? How's your clay and sand driveway holding up?

  • 10 years ago

    How many Youtube videos does it take before you can call yourself an expert and start billing people for your new found expertise? I always wanted to be a surgeon, or a physician at least..

  • 10 years ago

    Never has the phrase "went off the reservation" manifested itself in so short a time.

Sponsored
Mary Shipley Interiors
Average rating: 4.8 out of 5 stars34 Reviews
Columbus OH Premier Interior Designer 10x Best of Houzz