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sisgldnhr

boiler

10 years ago

I have a steam boiler in my old home. I recently purchased a new boiler from the company that has done all of my boiler repair over the past 10 years. They presented me with a quote and we agreed on a price. Last week the boiler was installed.....that's when the trouble began. Seems the system they installed is a hot water boiler not a steam boiler. After the boiler was installed they filled it with water.....what a fiasco!!! all 11 radiators leaked! There is damage to only one ceiling. Yesterday the installer told me what happened. Now they tell me that they are going to buy a conversion kit to turn it into a steam boiler. I told him as long as it still is under the same warranty that it should be okay. Now I am questioning myself....will it be okay?? I live alone in this big house and more boiler problems is the very last thing I need. Any input would be appreciated.

Comments (17)

  • 10 years ago

    I would be cautious with this company even if they have been great with your maintenance for 10 years. Switching from a steam system to a hot water system is a pretty major change. If your original estimate indicated they were going to install a steam boiler and they installed a hot water one instead, their expertise would seem to be pretty questionable, especially since they seemed to have failed to notice the difference at any stage of the replacement. As far as employing a conversion kit, this might be fine, but again I would be cautious. Steam boilers - and I am far from an expert - must be designed to deal with a good deal more pressure than ones designed for hot water only. It may well be that the boiler they installed can deal with either and the conversion kit regulates temperature only, but I would certainly ask. I'd also ask them to explain how running hot water rather than steam through the system caused the radiator leaks. The reverse conversion - hot water to higher pressure steam - would seem more likely to produce leaks than what they did. A third question would be if you are going to get the same btu output and efficiency with the conversion kit as you would get with a system designed for steam in the first place. All in all, I would consult another company or a HVAC contractor for further input before going ahead with the conversion kit. Steam heat is a wonderful system in terms of human comfort, but very few such systems are installed today in private homes. That does not mean yours is outdated or in need of a major change such as you have unintentionally experienced. It does mean the replacement needs to be done correctly and consulting a second or even third contractor is the best way to insure this happens. Best of luck.

    sisgldnhr thanked akamainegrower
  • 10 years ago

    PS: Perhaps it's just not done any more or there was good reason not to do it in this case, but testing systems and individual radiators for leaks using compressed air used to be pretty standard practice. A good way of avoiding exactly what happened when they sent water through the system without testing first. You can't shut the barn door now for the first disaster, but inquiring about air testing could save you from a second one.

    sisgldnhr thanked akamainegrower
  • 10 years ago

    My contract states the brand of the new boiler but no where does it state that it is steam or hot water. Thank you for your advice! I am going to make some phone calls today.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Steam radiators are set up completely different from hot water. They have a temperature-sensitive valve to bleed out air in front of the steam. Water would not be hot enough (or gaseous enough haha) to close the valve. So water, water, everywhere.

    Now the radiators and pipes will need to be blown out clean wherever the water intruded, because dry rust granules may be clogging inconvenient spots.


    sisgldnhr thanked Sombreuil
  • 10 years ago

    I'd be really upset by this kind of screw-up. I would *insist* on them properly repairing all damage they caused by their mistake and I would insist that they install the correct boiler! I wouldn't accept the conversion kit. Aside from the damage they caused, I would also argue about the time/stress hassle and be requesting an adjustment to my bill, in my favor!


    My heating company screwed up royally when they quoted my system work... they had a guy who was completely unfamiliar with steam radiator systems do the quote, which included a change that was physically impossible. They tried to make me accept something I didn't want (heat one room with electric!), and they said it would cost me more money. Luckily, one of the workers liked me and pulled me aside and told me what they were up to... he even told me that I would be paying about $1500 too much if I accepted their 'fix'! A-holes. But since I was prepared with his info, I made out ok.

    sisgldnhr thanked party_music50
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    It is such a crock!! party_music50......since this has happened I now question everything that they are saying to me.

    I called them this morning and told them that if I were to accept the conversion kit then I would need a written letter from the furnace manufacturer stating that they agree with what the installers are purposing and that they would stand behind the boiler for the entire warranty period. I also told them that I am calling several other HVAC companies that handle steam boilers and have them come and look at what is going on here and get their feedback. I also told them that I don't want this to come to them speaking to me through my attorney from now on until we get this settled. Their response was that they have hired 2 more plumbing/boiler specialists to come into my home tomorrow to access the situation at their cost. And that they will do whatever it takes to make it right.


  • 10 years ago

    Stand firm! Trust your instincts and don't let them get away with any more crap. :)

    sisgldnhr thanked party_music50
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    FYI.....got a call today from furnace company. They now tell me that Dunkirk will not warranty the converted furnace. She asked if they could come and take the new, wrong one out and write me a check back for the deposit that I put down and I could just hire someone else. I told her that was not going to happen, that we would be seeing each other in court. This is driving me crazy!!! What a cluster.....

  • 10 years ago

    If you really are going to wind up in court there are several things you probably should do now. Take lots of photographs of the current wrong installation and the damage caused by the leaking radiators. Get an independent evaluation and estimate from one or (better) two HVAC contractors and contractors qualified to repair water damage attesting to what it will take to repair the damage, test and repair the radiators, remove and replace the boiler, etc. You probably will also need legal representation - the monetary amounts are too high for small claims court. On the other hand, if your state is like most, there is a huge backlog of cases and no resolution will be reached for a very long time. Having your deposit returned and the wrong boiler removed would allow you to move ahead with having the correct heating system installed by someone else. You could then pursue the other monetary damages separately. By all means, check with a lawyer for how this would play out in your state. Again, good luck.

    sisgldnhr thanked akamainegrower
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I am in way over my head here. I have taken photographs from the very beginning (thank goodness!). I've called around...the closest certified residential boiler worker is in the Cleveland area. I am getting on the phone again today to try to find a good lawyer in civil litigation. The one I talked to yesterday told me to bring my homeowners insurance policy to see if my insurance with pay for this mess.

  • 10 years ago

    I do feel a great deal of sympathy for your situation even though I am no expert on heating systems. So take these suggestions as possibilities, not certainties.

    A casual search turns up many companies - Lennox, US Boiler, Burnham among others - which still manufacture and sell residential steam boilers. One of these companies should be able to recommend an installer closer than 2 hours away.

    You might want to contact the Better Business Bureau and state consumer advocate office about your experience. Talk to your homeowners insurance company as the attorney suggested as well.

    Repair of the radiators as Sombreuil notes above will be a major issue that is in a way separate from the boiler issue. The original installer would, let us hope, carry liability insurance for just such situations.

    The bottom line, though, is that you need a reliable efficient heating system before next fall. The slow process of going through the court system may not be the best way of achieving this. Perhaps you need to be open to a hot water system rather than a steam system after all. With a lawyer or public advocate's help, a meeting with the original company might resolve many issues without court action that could take a very, very long time.



    sisgldnhr thanked akamainegrower
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Update....... received a call from the company that I hired. They told me that they want to take the new boiler out and give my money back and ...they will let me keep the pipes that they have installed (for the wrong boiler!) but they will not reinstall the boiler that they took out. I told them that I will see them in court.

    Have second conversation with my attorney today.

    Buyer beware!! I am so sick of scammers!!!!

  • 10 years ago

    Okay... after the legal battle (did not go to court!) I now have a forced air system in my house. They just finished this week. It is 100,000 BTU system. I had to fight tooth and nail to get them to run it all the way to the attic so that I had heat in each of the rooms on the 2nd floor. They have left my house in a mess. I have duct work running from the basement thru my formal dining room to a closet in a bedroom to the attic. After installing the furnace they let me know that they were not a drywall company nor woodworkers so that bill is now on me as well. My home is 115 years old with 12" crown moulding and 10" baseboards. Guess its a small price to pay to finally have some heat.

    I do plan writing a blog and sharing it on facebook to let others in my area know who NOT to hire. I also am having a banner made to put in my yard again letting other in my area know who NOT to hire.

  • 10 years ago

    wow. Such a shame that they did this to you and your home. :( Good luck with your new system!

    sisgldnhr thanked party_music50
  • 9 years ago

    So much missing from this story, particularly the part between their offer to refund your money and your decision to litigate. I understand that water leaked out of the radiators (at least one anyway) due to the incorrect boiler. Is the repair of that the sole expense that you were trying to recover from them? How much would that have been? Other than that it seems like it might have been a good idea to take the money back and hire someone else.

    I'm not sure how this was a scam, it seems more like they just didn't know what they were doing. Scammers intentionally mislead and defraud. These guys were just incompetent.

    Anyway, I do hope everything will be straight in the end for your old house. :-]

  • 9 years ago

    This really sucks, to be blunt. You went from the most desirable heating system to the least. I have a hot water boiler system & I'd (not literally) kill to have steam!

    So sorry they did this to you. Be sure to write them a nice scathing review online! I know I would!