well , I assume since you are not original owner, the 10 yr warranty on compressor does not apply...

IMO

Correct. No warranty. The company I called did the original installation so they said they would process a request to Carrier to see what they can get. But they thought that this model might have only had a 5 year warranty in 2008.

What model furnace?...what is cost of replacement compressor?....what is cost of new AC condenser and matching evap coil?...lots to consider!...will Carrier offer any help?...

IMO

No idea on the furnace but I was told the whole system is Carrier Infinity. Also that everything else appears in good working order except the compressor.

what do you mean by "AC condenser and matching evap coil"? As replacement parts?

Is the model number of your Carrier condenser start with 24ANA748? This model tends to have a higher compressor failure rate. Carrier has a program in place to give owners some relief. I am interested in this since I have the same condensers in smaller sizes.

If it is and the equipment was registered in 2008, then there is an 10 year parts warranty. However it applies to the original owner. I believe the original owner could transfer to you for fee. If you are still in contact with the former owner, perhaps you can discuss this possibility.

Is the original installer a Carrier dealer? If he is then you may get some guidance form him. You might consider a compressor replacement only, or replace the condenser with an equivalent Carrier Infinity condenser (24ANB748) or Carrier Performance series model. If you did that then you should be able to use the existing coil.

Complete outside AC condenser gone bad or just the compressor?...makes a difference....what problem was diagnosed?...your terminology is confusing!...

Good question. I am not sure. The tech said compressor but also that two capacitors were fried. What questions can I ask to help clear that up?

I don't like this thread....the fact that you are unclear tells me that the tech has failed in his job to properly explain the issues and your options...time to think about a second opinion...I don't have confidence in this dealer...whether the total condenser or just the compressor is still a lot of bux...

IMO

Warranties have changed over the years, mostly due to the financial crisis among other reasons, like improper diagnosis and so on. These warranties are costly for manufacturers especially if the warrantied part is improperly diagnosed as defective when it is not.

The base warranty is 5 years for residential when not registered in a timely fashion after the installation. Typically this is 90 days from the date of installation. If registered properly this provides a total of 10 years to the base warranty to the "ORIGINAL" home owner. This base warranty covers parts only. Not refrigerant, labor, freight, fees etc. If a new home owner enters the picture the warranty reverts back to the original 5 year warranty.

Extended warranties can be purchased for additional cost to cover labor only up to 10 years in most cases. Again due to the financial crisis the extended warranties are in my opinion not as great as they once were. For that reason most do not buy them.

While you probably could repair this unit by replacing the compressor, the warranty on that part would only be 1 year (only on the part replaced) typically depending on the HVAC contractor. So there is a lot to think about when considering options going forward.

Thanks Austin Air. That is helpful context.

Tigerdunes - you definitely have a point. I am waiting for a call from one of the owners. I will definitely ask for a more thorough diagnosis before narrowing any options.

Update: My unit qualifies for a Carrier replacement program. I found this links to the program here in the forums:

http://www.auersteel.com/reference/DSBs/2014/CarrierRepairReplaceBrochure.pdf

http://www.auersteel.com/reference/DSBs/2014/dsb14-0025.pdf

The only issue is that these are 2014 documents.

The dealer I have been talking to told me I qualify but has has quoted me $2900 installed. The bulletin indicates a $1545 price including $450 installation credit.

Does anyone have access to the 2016 bulletin?

What would reasonable installation costs be in a high priced market like Washington, DC?

Thanks!

Current unit is 24ANA748A

Replacement unit is 24ANB748A

The costed out of pocket cost to me is $2900 including the unit and installation.

I have not received a written quote with the specific cost components. I guess requesting that is my next step.

You are getting the improved version of what you currently have. The 24ANB7 has the scroll compressor. The one you and I have has the reciprocating type. The scroll is supposed to be more reliable, but the drawback the split between the low and high stage is not a good.

I am not up on the latest prices, but I would estimate without the warranty you would be paying in the $4000 - $4500 range for the 4 ton size. You would not qualify for a Carrier rebate since you are not buying a furnace. It is still better than nothing.

Get the quote with the model number listed. Ask if this includes any refrigerant charges. Some refrigerant may need to be added.

will need a new matching evap coil with new condenser...anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke and speaking untruths...

IMO

Tigerdunes,

Why do you say a new coil is required? The current coil could be a Carrier CNPVP in a 4 or 5 ton size. If it has the ATA suffix then it should be fine.

The coil should at least be inspected, but it's a crap shoot if you ask me. 8 years before catastrophic failure like this is extremely below average.

If you're going to look into replacing the coil you may as well replace the line set too, because either one may have caused the failure.

Additionally check to make sure the thermostat is a two stage thermostat.

You want a matching system...until OP gives coil current Mdl number to confirm it is a match, he should consider a new coil....it only makes sense...

IMO

Well define matching? same brand? You do know there are manufacturer's that use what are known as 3rd party coils. These 3rd party coils are considered matched. Of course this statement depends on who you talk to, and what they are on the hook for.

It's fairly rare you'd see this on a Carrier Infinity system, but nothing would really surprise me.

It's quite common to avoid fault and blame it on mismatched equipment. You must realize I repair and fix what you likely call mismatched systems for a living. I do this more than any other job. Many times this is due to a lack of budget.

Watch me pull a rabbit out of the hat - nothing up my sleeve- PRESTO!

You know the rocky and Bullwinkle show!

#now here's something I hope you really like....

I agree with Tigerdunes, I am assuming the OP has the correct Carrier coil, but he needs to check. If this system had a Carrier Infinity condenser and furnace, then it would need the Carrier coil and thermostat to quality for the $1000 rebate that was in affect in 2008. If he has an Aspen or other third party coil, then he should spend the money on getting a new Carrier coil.

Matching to me is the system has an AHRI certificate. It can include a third party coil, but it something I have never seen recommended on this forum. You had to have an AHRI certificate in order to quality for the $1500 federal tax credit during this time period.

Matching means just that, a match according to AHRI Directory, ATA if old coil correctly sized, ALA if new coil...and certainly not a third party brand...

IMO

Checked the coil this morning. It is a CNPVP4821ATA.

I also asked for a detailed quote but was told that they do not break down the parts and labor costs. Just a single quote. Is that standard practice? I'm guessing that I would be paying ~$1300 in labor costs for the installation. That seems a bit high to me. Thoughts?

It is industry practice not to break down parts and costs. Lump sum price quote is common.

It difficult to say how much is going towards labor. I think it is higher than $1300.

Interesting. That lack of transparency feels like encouragement for price shopping. Or at least negotiation. I think that's what I will do.

Thanks for all the help guys.

tiger dunes, new home builders do it all the time... put plenum coil "all style" coil and slap a 14 or 15 SEER high efficiency sticker on the system.

It's easy to talk about this on a forum board.

whether they do it all the time or not does not matter...it does not benefit the unsuspecting homeowner, just the installing dealer...it is wrong and a shady business practice...

TD

Well, the point is a new house is inspected to pass code etc. and so on. The home owner buys the home a year, 3, or 8 later the coil leaks they call a HVAC contractor out to the home such as like on this thread and they want a break down as to what I am charging. They expect it to be right but always assume some how I am charging them more. But yet I don't get to question them on how much they make, how much mark up they have where they work.

Then they call the builder, the builder GC quotes them the cheaper price and puts back a plenum coil. IE: Mismatched according to you.

The HVAC contractor disappears because everyone goes to the cheaper price because the AHRI match costs more.

You can't have it both ways. I am forced many times to work within the confines of a budget which is clearly noted within the confines of this thread as a primary example.

I present choices it's the only way I survive in a "I need a price break down" world.

Sorry, while I sympathize to a degree, I am simply not buying...a deliberately mismatched system from a less than reputable GC or his HVAC sub/dealer serves them not the homeowner...it is wrong and as I said previously a shady business practice that hurts the good and reputable dealers in the community they serve...

TD

I don't know if it's deliberate or not, but new construction doesn't play by the same rules. After a year they are long gone most often.

I'm left to make it work.

What good is an AHRI rating if the line set is not properly matched / proper size either?

There's life in a lab and then there is life in the real world where people check prices on line and so forth.

What good is an AHRI rating if the furnace isn't matched with the AC & Coil?

Sure it's fine if you're replacing a system all at once, but that is rare. If the furnace is 10 years or older you're probably not going to find an AHRI number that will match with it and in most cases a furnace can last 20 years or more.

Real world doesn't operate the way of AHRI numbers most of the time.

I do what I can, but realize people are not going to stick money in a home they don't plan to live in. You wouldn't do it either.

If the AC is new and works, many times that is good enough and that's all that people want to spend. I wish it wasn't this way, but the only reason I am in business is because I "know" better.

On the flip end I do sell complete systems, but I have to know how to do the opposite much more often.

Resolution:

I paid $2900 for a replacement 24ANB748 unit through the Carrier program. The good news is that the program was recently revised and now includes a 10 year warranty.

The bad news is the state of the HVAC business. Carrier dictates an equipment cost of $1545 and a $200 labor credit. So between Carrier and me, we paid this company $1,400 for the installation. I knew this going in, but was not able to get either a concession from this company, nor a better bid from other Carrier dealers near me. $1400 for 5 hours of installation technician time is insane!

I hope this industry joins the 21st century by the time I need to buy any more HVAC equipment. Transparency and effective competition are desperately needed.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me through this process.

I am glad this worked out for you and you have another 10 year parts warranty.

I don't follow the math. How do you come up with $1400 for the installation?

I paid $2900. Subtract the equipment cost of $1700 ($1545 + tax) and the dealer is keeping $1200. Add in the $200 labor reimbursement from Carrier and he now has $1400 in pocket.

Taking it one step further. He pays his techs $30/hr for 5 man hours = $150 in hard costs. And he is grossing $1250 ($1400-$150) because the carrier unit he sold the previous owners of this house was a lemon.

I dealt with the owner's son on this and walked him through my evaluation of the numbers using 10 man hours. He gladly admitted he was "clearing a bit over $1000", but pretty much dared me to find another dealer that would do it for less. I made two phone calls to other dealers. Left two messages with details. Got zero call backs in 24 hours.

Clearing over $1000? You have to realize there are far more costs than you are "figuring".

Here's HVAC Business 101 for you:

Depending on the size of this company:

Manager salary, Dispatch salary, Accountant salary, Technician pay, Lease on office building, Trucks / vans for techs and manager- gas, maintenance etc, Commercial insurance for those trucks, General liability insurance, Health insurance for employees, 6.2% company paid social security for employees, utilities for office building, invoicing costs, equipment and tools to do the job, parts or materials, janitorial fees to clean office building, lawn care costs, merchant fees, banking fees.

Yeah, they cleared $1000 LOL.

Well I don't think it matters whose comment it is, I was just giving facts based on what was said. Whoever said it is of little convenience.

An effective labor rate of $125-150 per hour... Well it's a guessing game to be honest. Air Conditioning is a seasonal business. For those in the south there is really no heating season. That means there can be upwards of 5 months of the year in which there is little to no money coming in to pay bills.

If a companies volume is 1000 calls a year and they need 350,000 to keep the lights on all they need is $350 a call. But if 3 competitors open up and takes 750 of those calls that same company needs $1400 a call with 250 calls in volume.

If the company can't pay their overhead it's quite simple to imagine what happens.