Hi,

What is going to support the brick veneer? It is unusual to find an unused brick ledge on an old foundation.

Wherever he nails the required masonry ties into the house, he may shatter the old siding. Brick over existing siding sounds like a cost savings that comes at a high price. IMO, it should be stripped to the sheathing, then add proper infiltration barrier, and address all of the flashing details so you don't get water incursions.

Casey

Bricking a house is a lot more involved than just mortaring together brick. All of the penetrations into the home would need to be redone and integrated properly with the new wall assembly depth. The roof overhang may now be insufficient, so keeping the correct drainage plane behind the brick becomes even more key to get right. That will not involve leaving any part of your existing siding. You are essentially rebuilding the entire exterior if the home.

I would remove all if the siding, and take the opportunity to place at least 1" of foam on the exterior since you're having to do all of the rest. You'd be surprised at the additional comfort that it will add, and it improves air sealing tremendously.

This all assumes that a brick ledge is in place to be able to do conventional brick lay on it. If no brick ledge, I'm not comfortable with the alternative bolted on angle iron supports. They always rust. Stainless is more my comfort level, but it is ungodly expensive to do.

In no case would I allow this mason to do the work. He is greatly minimizing (or deliberately ignoring) the much more difficult snd expensive to deal with ancillary details that determine whether or not this project is a success.

I know I've greatly simplified my explanation, and your warnings are heard.

He does plan to pour a footing, because there isn't one. We have to meet, anyway, because I haven't got the whole story.

I wanted to talk to him about the foam board, because I doubt the siding idea.
The overhang is a question. Is there a recommended depth?

Please tell me about the drainage plane behind the brick? Oh - filtration barrier: is that like Tyvek?

Thanks for your patient answers.

I'm leery of the whole idea. To pour a stand-a-lone ledge strong enough to support brick is an engineering feat in it's self. Concrete must cure in a controled manner and a thin pour is next to impossible to control. Not saying it's impossible,just beware.

Vinyl siding would contribute nothing to the insulation of the wall and, as others have noted, would interfere with drainage and installation of brick ties. And brick would add little to the insulation of the wall so the purpose of this work is unclear.

For anyone to help you redesign the existing wall system you would need to draw the existing foundation and wall system to scale and then describe what your goals are. I doubt brick will be one of the solutions offered but if so you need to find another mason.

http://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-the-perfect-wall

See Figure 9 the residential wall.

Sounds crazy.

Vith, thanks for that article. It's really what I needed to ask better questions.

As for the purpose, JDS, it's purely to make me happy. I absolutely dislike (read: despise) vinyl siding. Oh, after 7 years of plywood and Tyvek paper, I'm glad to have it, but it's never been my choice. It was a donation from a friend doing demo at AFB on some Colonels' houses. Someone in my legally indigent state couldn't afford financially, energy-ly, (If you didn't know, I made that word up.) and aesthetically to turn down such a donation.

And actually, some day, I'd love to have a house where the walls meet the sill plate to keep the mice and snakes out. Although the latter takes care of the former in the summer. Taking off this God-awful siding would offer me the opportunity to insulate correctly, sealing up gaps, cracks, and gateways that exist all over the house.

This Brick-laying-fellow did some work down the road and I found myself slowing down for a month to ogle it. I love the brick they chose, and his work ... looks ... beautiful. As anally OCD as I am, if things didn't line up, or were out of plumb/level, it would make me insane, just driving by!

(Note: My ex-GC piece of crap husband used to tell people I could spot something out of plumb/level to a 16th of an inch or less. Not bad, he'd say, for a homeowner. Don't know if that's true, but if it isn't right, I can see it.)

Anyway. Good questions for me to ask. I'm not saying no at this point, but as I stated, I wanted to do this once and do it right if I do it at all.

Today I'm having a kitchen window put in. I'm SO excited. I've had said Tyvek paper over the hole since 2006 and am so looking forward to the warmth that will offer in the winter. Counter depth casement window. I'm planning ahead to case that back porch wall with the 1" foam board insulation, so I can actually, some day be warm in the house. No brick considered for that area. :)

nice to see the perfect wall link.

OP I've seen the after effects of homes with brick added over siding.

maybe it looked nice once...but you can see the separation at windows

and doors years later. not sure about the footings for these houses on

piers with added brick facade.

I have a friend who live in a house with the brick facade...looks

horrible, lots of moisture issues at the windows and front door.

If I were you, I'd shop other options.

best of luck.

Yes, I'm thinking my gut instinct isn't to ever have siding under, let alone ON a house. Just not a fan!

You're fooling yourself if you think that brick will be a good energy solution. There are so many other things you can do with your money to weatherize the house and be warmer at a lower cost. It seems like knowledgeable people have posted a lot of cautions above about the wisdom of this potential project, but I'm sensing you are inclined to ignore them...

Thank you for your opinion.
Ignore the people I've trusted for 12 years? No. Which is why I even posted here.
As I mentioned, the brick would be mostly an aesthetic project. As a matter of fact, I believe I even said, "it would be purely to make me happy" in one post above.

It would also be an opportunity to remove God-awful siding I hate, and seal up the holes and cracks and bad construction underneath it.

I'm not uneducated in energy efficiency. When you live in a home under construction for 10 years, that's effectively a sieve, you learn. Rather than the Home of Good Enough for Now, where my ex- left me, I am trying to create the Home of Done Once, Done Right. I really hope not to be one with nature (read: mice and snakes -- although I like the snakes) at some point.

I make opportunities out of strange set backs.
As I mentioned, the brick would be essentially aesthetic. Any warmth or energy efficiency due to it would be a bonus.

Good luck with that then...

Hi CE,

We have known each other here for years, and I'm not trying to sell you a bridge, or anything for that matter, but it's totally correct to say that the thermal performance of any facing material is going to be about the same. The biggest impact is going to come from actually finishing the exterior; if the walls have essentially been open for years, there has been an ongoing heat loss that will be improved by finishing it with any siding material and new housewrap.

The idea that a new brick ledge can be attached adequately to an existing foundation without opening up an host of new problems, (immediate and future) is an alien concept to me. I would be very wary. Look at the cellars of the houses that this brickmason has carried out this technique on. I'm super skeptical.

Still friends?

Casey

Always, Casey. How could I be angry with someone who has let me pick their brain for YEARS!?

I don't know if you remember my ongoing construction project of the entire house, but you're on the money with potential heat retention. That's one of the interesting things about this to me: sealing up the structure, where I know it was done "good enough for now." The mice, the snakes, the breezes across my ankles and the cold air falling down on me all know it could well be improved.

I'll do as you suggest. I know 4 homes he's worked on now. I'll also have my magic Fred come with me. Magic Fred is my friend/do-all man when I have $$ to do the things I can't figure out on my own. He knows stuff.

How a footer might be attached to the house was one of the things running around in my head, too. Which is why I came: for questions to have answered!

CEFreeman,

Would you consider another option for siding your house or are you in love with brick? I have other suggestions that would be cheaper and easier to achieve without touching your foundation.

Good luck!

l'm always open to new ideas.

I pass this house every day. This brick and the change in the house gave me one of those, OMG, THAT'S IT! Ah-ha moments. I slow down, sometimes stop, and just stare.

My ex- used to pressure me into making decisions on things, so they'd be kind of "default" decisions. Over the 12 years of rebuild, I've changed much of those pressured choices into things that actually SCREAM at me. Even my cabinets I've built (Thanks, Casey) or refinished don't have hardware yet, because nothing's standing out. My MBR does, though, because ooooOOOoooo I loved something I saw in Architectural Digest, so I hunted it down relentlessly, then saved for it.

So. Definitely tell me what you're thinking...?

Remove the vinyl completely. Install Exterior grade Roxul on the outside, you can go as little as 2"deep or double up to 4". Excellent insulation. Use an air barrier, wood battens system and then install the siding of your choice. I really like the fiber cement panels because you can paint them beautiful colors and they are easy to clean. This will get you a well insulated structure. You can also attach brick veneer to this installation system.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check out Roxul.

Adding insulation of any kind to the exterior of the wall requires vertical furring strips and thicker trim and sills at the windows and doors. That will be difficult and possibly expensive if you add 2" of rigid mineral wool insulation under new cladding.

Before suggesting a new insulation and cladding it is necessary to see the condition at the windows and doors and to draw a detail to accommodate the additional thickness of the cladding. It would also be necessary to know the climate, the existing cavity insulation and if there is a vapor retarder of any kind on the interior of the wall. At the same time the insulation of the roof should be considered.

An exterior building envelope is a system that should be designed as such.

So I've read.
Currently, I do know there's insulating IN the walls, then plywood, then Tyvek paper.
The windows are new (not yet installed) and I can do anything I need/want to with the doors.

One of the many benefits of real DIY (should be "DIM" as in Do It Myself) or saving the money for something when it's really out of my league.

As for the roof? I know it's new as of summer 2006. The valleys are redone as of 2010, and the insulation up there is really about 18" of blown in stuff from BG&E. Being legally indigent, I qualified for an energy audit and they put that in, caulked the crap out of every crack and hole they could. Sadly at that point, all the pot lights were still just holes in the ceiling. The recommended I ... put something in them. Like lights, maybe. Uh-huh. Brilliant.

I digress. Still mulling, asking questions (although I have the best advice here, IMHO) and looking at the houses he's done nearby. They sure are purdy...