Once you've cooked with induction your apprehensions will be gone. You'll join the many who have happily said goodbye forever to gas cooking. For response the control and more rapid change will be one of the features that win you over. But you may have to give it a try. Bosch makes good units.

I have a Bosch induction cooktop and I would never willingly return to gas (I'd rather eat raw food than return to a regular electric). I cook becuase we have to eat, not because I love to cook. But you learn pretty quickly how to adjust power levels. The speed of boiling, ease of cleaning, hob timers, etc. are all additional pluses. It would be great if you could find one to try out.

Thanks for the feedback - I will discuss the ventilation with my wife but pretty certain she will not go with a true hood as she does not like the look - we will have to make some compromises here. I have been planning to try out the induction - just need to find a place to do that. I did hear that the Wolf/Subzero showroom would allow you to come by during weekdays and try the equipment out.

Any feedback on the refrigerators? I am leaning towards the Sub Zero just based not he fact that it seems to be well built while a lot of folks seem to complain about the Jenn Airs in general but not sure if this particular model is better than the average. It is such large investment that I want to be sure - my experience with refrigerators is limited - we have been using a Kenmore Elite fridge from 2000 that has lasted us for 16 years with no issues so this is a big step up!

So you can see a rangetop in a contemporary setting, here is a photo of contemporary kitchen with a Wolf rangetop (though a 48", not a 36") with baffle filter hood.

I don't have direct experience with those fridges. But there is a memorable thread by Rococogurl on her fridge-choice odyssey. It goes over all the many things that went into her decision. In the end, she chose a Miele fridge. I hope she doesn't mind if I link the thread here.

It's quite long, but you can save time and page down to almost the end (to Sept. 18) for the final pics and conclusions. Thread called "*%#@* Refrigerator, Again - Perspective Please"

Between the two fridges the SZ would be my choice hands down. I would not worry about the panels. SZ pretty much invented paneled fridges. With the discount, it seems like a no brainer.

One could argue back and forth about differences between the two units. Lighting might be a point of discussion. Dark interior vs traditional white. I personally, don't care for side by side fridges as I hate the small freezer. But many do and if that's what the space requires I get that entirely.

Here is the biggest difference between the two however: should anything go wrong, with SZ you have them behind the unit. You speak directly with them.

With Jenn Air you have no idea who will be servicing or whether they truly know the product. Jenn Air is known for a good product. People like their fridges. But not known for the same kind of after-purchase service.

@friedajune - I certainly don't mind having the thread linked here. I hope it will be helpful to others. Meanwhile, my Miele fridge has been an excellent choice. Every time the power goes out I am thankful for the durability.

In sizing ventilation and a 36" cooktop consider the added capacity necessary to service the waste heat from gas when compared to induction. Enough power to function well can get you to the point where a makeup air system would be beneficial and required in some places.

My wife (surprisingly) seems to be pro-gas driven by the fact when we lost power during Hurricane Ike for 2 weeks our gas cooktop could be used daily. We are debating between the Bosch Benchmark 36" Gas cooktop and the Wolf 36" Transitional Gas Cooktop CG365T/S.

Will you have a grill outside? A gas grille?

I would definitely look into induction if you have a gas grille outside for the maybe once every several year possibility of losing electricity. Plus with most electronic ignitions nowadays you'd still need electricity to start them.

Dan1888 - what will make a difference in exhaust requirements is what you will be cooking, not the type of energy used to cook. If you are making scrambled eggs, you won't need more exhaust cfms to scramble eggs on a gas cooktop than on an induction cooktop. If you are frying hamburgers in a cast iron skillet, you will need equally high cfms on an induction cooktop as on a gas cooktop to remove the grease and smoke.

It sounds Dan1888 like you are saying that if cooking 4 hamburgers in a cast iron skillet needs exhaust power of e.g., 600 cfms on a gas cooktop, then those same hamburgers will need fewer cfms if cooked with induction? That doesn't seem to make sense.

While there may be reasons some people prefer induction, it is a fallacy that induction needs less exhaust power than gas cooking.

One thing I dislike about induction is that the second you raise the pan off the induction cooktop the heat is gone. This is a problem when you saute and lift the pan and toss the ingredients in the pan.

The OP's cookware may not be induction-compatible. If it is not, the OP would have to get rid of his cookware and buy new induction-capable cookware.

Re the fridge: that Miele of Rococogurl's is a beauty. With a fridge like that, who needs the panelling.

The exhaust needs are always greater for gas no matter what you're cooking. That's the point. Of course, if the range is off you don't need much capacity. As soon as you turn it on the waste heat difference is there. Try boiling a large pot of water with your gas burner fully on during a summer day and the waste heat will cook your kitchen and adjoining areas over the time needed to do the job. The amount for new cookware is minimal and not even a real life factor in the budget for a kitchen remodel.

Re the cooktop/rangetop. These days, I would be looking at the Wolf or perhaps the BlueStar. I wouldn't buy a BlueStar range but would consider their rangetop. No idea how the cost of that would stack up against the Wolf.

Between Wolf and Bosch, no contest. I would go with Wolf. I've used Wolf cooktops and range tops and they are excellent.

I looked at induction to switch out as I have a radiant electric cooktop. Because we are prone to power outages I decided against it. My cooktop doesn't work without power but the electronics don't get blown out either as there are none.

Gas is reliable and a great cooking fuel. Induction is cleaner, no doubt, and very fast. But I can see where some of the features of induction would be annoying to some. OTOH, as we all age, turning itself off is a bit of a blessing.

Either is an excellent choice with its own set of pros and cons. It comes down to personal preference and if you want the learning curve for induction.

AS I've written, many times, we Love our Jenn-Air 48" built in and paneled fridge that we bought in 2006. In those 10 years, it has only needed an icemaker, (That cost me about $135 & was easily changed by me. After about 8 years the temps in the freezer compartment starting swinging wildly, (0 F ~ 20F, still below freezing) fridge temps were fine. This turned out to be a partial plug in the "sealed system", that cost me about $350. So less than $500 spent in 10 years for maintenance/repairs, not many would complain about that.

The Fridge does an excellent job of preserving food, I can't recall in the 10 years that we have owned it, throwing away any food that did not keep well in it. You can also set 3 different temps in the fridge compartment, one temp for meat keeper 32F, another temp can be selected for the veggie bin 34F, whist still a 3rd temp can be selected for the main compartment, (37F), ALL digital controlled with digital readouts. I don't think you can find this functionality on any new fridge, though, even Jenn-air, and I know Consumer Reports "dinged" SZ a couple years back for not offering the ability to set different temps in different areas of the fridge compartment in their latest models.

At any rate, the food keeping ability of almost any new fridge is perfectly adequate for today's needs, You will see folks "brag" about how much long their new fridge keeps food, (regardless of the manufacturer)! Also if You take the time to read up on USDA food storage recommendations, most any fridge will preserve food much longer than the USDA recommends~~~~USDA says the food still appears to look fresh, both in color, texture, etc but the food, (fruits and veggies) have lost most of their "Nutritional values", (vitamins & minerals).

AT any rate, don't get caught in the the "silly argument", "My fridge keeps food the longest", as it is just "useless info" as far as making a decision on what fridge to buy!

As with any appliance, you MUST do your research before hiring a company, (even the "factory service") to repair the appliance.

I checked out 3 companies (Using Yelp) that Jenn-Air recommended for fridge repairs, 2 of the 3 had Terrible reviews, whist #3 turned out to be a winner, not only with reviews but actual service they performed for us.

AS I said, do this for any appliance company, Roccogirl will give "glowing reviews" about "factory service" on her Miele appliances, but Goggle Miele Service San Francisco, and hopefully You see my point, why you should check out factory service, (before calling them), Even Wolf/SZ.!

It is very hard to find any info about what cooling system, (compressors) that SZ is now using.

All they do is brag about their "Latest Technology" with no concrete info as to what "Latest Technology" is. For all we know, they could have a hamster running round in one of those wheels, which is connected to a fan, which cools the unit,~~~~ well actually 2 hamsters and the wheels, since they are "dual system" cooling systems.

AT least , to me, that's like buying an expensive car, the salesman won't open the hood, He says it has the latest Technology and it moves the car well, and that's all you need to know!

Well, some of you "Young uns" may buy that, but not this 73 year old!!!!!!

Gary

Gary, I post good reviews on Miele service because that is what I've had. I also have posted multiple times that if their factory service is not available where someone lives, don't buy the brand.

You have an animus towards Miele without every having owned the product.

As for not knowing about which cooling system SZ is now using -- that could be said for any brand.

Try boiling a large pot of water with your gas burner fully on during a summer day and the waste heat will cook your kitchen and adjoining areas over the time needed to do the job.

I've already given all the advice I had to the OP, but just had to come back when I read this hyperbole. I boil large pots of water on my gas range all the time, and never, in my life, had the heat from boiling water "cook your kitchen and adjoining areas".

If you don't have A/C, and your hood is so inadequate that steam from boiling water is escaping it into the kitchen and adjoining rooms, then those areas will be hot from steam whether the water is boiled via induction or via gas.

This is the type of thing from induction devotees that I was alluding to in my earlier post. Call it "pressure", "hyperbole", "sales tactics", or "fear-mongering", these people are so adamant that induction is better than anything else. It turns me off to induction more than induction itself. Why can't they just let it go?

I've cooked with induction. I didn't experience any difference in exhaust needs. I didn't experience lower temperature in the kitchen. There were things I disliked about induction, so in my next kitchen I chose gas. But I understand why people love induction. People should get what they like.

Back to topic please. I just had to say something.

Recently, I seriously considered moving from m 1948 O'Keefe & Merrit gas range to an induction range. I've never before considered replacing my beloved stove, partly due to cost, but primarily due to loving the cooktop cover which makes it very easy to keep clean (stove right by kitchen door, two dogs who shed and who stay in the kitchen when I'm not home). I had no interest in a glass electric cooktop - haven't had an electric stove since 1981 and don't like them. So the easy to clean/keep clean surface of induction was a huge temptation, especially as I'm doing a kitchen remodel and this would be easy to add to the new 5 ft countertop that is going in next to the existing stove.

Then I looked into the whole induction thing further. I heard comments like "It lasted 7 years with no trouble". Seven years for something that expensive? Whoa! Then I went to the appliance store and found that if something goes wrong with the electronics in the cooktop, it usually cannot be fixed and must be replaced. Again, whoa!

I've owned my O'Keefe & Merritt now since 1982 and have had one service call - a valve replacement. Oh - the spring on the lid broke but I found one online and installed it myself. I just think that just about ANY gas stove is going to be more reliable and maintenance-free than induction, no matter how lovely it looks (and it DOES look lovely!).

As for the power failure; even in a power failure, the burners can be lit manually on a gas stove; the over cannot be. As for using an outside gas grill - fine during summer outages, not so great if due to massive snow or an ice storm!

"You have an animus towards Miele without every having owned the product."

Oh Oh, I'm very sure i've accumulated more years on Terra Firma, than You, RCGirl. How come I can recall your posts and appliances yet you can't recall my Miele Optima DW, which I have mentioned numerous times?, (and I do that without any "Memory Aids" of any kind).

I just use the "Miele Service Example" as I recalls it, but I could just as easily find how service varies across the USA, regardless of the manufacturer, and hence my advice to check out service companies.

Now I can't "personally" vouch for, or say "Nay" to Miele factory service, in my area, (Southern California), as the Miele DW has not broken in the 10 years we've had it, so No, I'm not Anti Miele.

I guess you forgot when I tried to help you make sure that the main board that was put into your oven was the most likely problem with it and that the board had the latest software so you would not have the temp problem some Miele oven owners did. Do you think I would bother if I hated Miele?

Gary

Anglophilia,

Many modern gas cooktops do not allow you to light it with a match. They all use electronic ignition. Many people discover this during power outages so read the manual for the particular model you are getting.

Friedajune,

It can seem like the forum is so pro induction sometimes. I have both induction and gas. For the majority of people, even those who are active cooks, induction offers a lot of advantages over gas. I always tell people to go and try it out. For a certain demographic, I am looking at my dad, induction is the only choice. He finds it easy to use, easy to clean and extremely fast so he can spend as little time in the kitchen as possible. I have a friend with twin boys who are more than a handful, for her induction was a better choice over gas and the current electric stovetop.

The one thing I see on the forum is people never go to the showrooms that have working models of what they plan to buy and play with it for a while. I complain to a lot of showrooms that they don't have the gas ranges operational so users can test them out. It is a leap of faith to buy such expensive items without test driving them.

I can't speak to the long term vaibility of replacement parts for the induction cooktops but all technology costs money these days. Any simple repair can sometimes cost more than the original purchase price of the item.

I don't have personal experience with manually lighting a modern gas stove, but when I Googled this question, multiple sources said this was possible.

I owned a Dacor. See page 13 of the user manual for one of their ranges. The information is in the warning box not to light with a manual flame. They also state in a trouble shooting section that the range needs power for the burners to work. This info is also true on my Miele. For the OP, if you get a gas appliance, read the owners manual to determine if the appliance can be manually lit. This is actually true for all the gas appliances I own, the tankless water heater and fireplace cannot be manually lit. My fireplace comes with a battery system to light it. I live in the Northeast where power outages abound. I bought a small Honda generator to power us through the basics. Your mileage may vary.

Just a bit of concern: there are a lot of folks saying that they want a gas cooktop so they can still cook during power outages. Um - do ya'll realize how dangerous that is? You are depleting your oxygen without any make up air / exhausting the fumes and in today's tight houses - that's a real concern.

I've had a gas cooktop for 19 years and I would NEVER think to light it in a power outage - I'd pull out the grill. And yes - even in the snowstorms / ice storms.

As always @homepro gives very solid, good advice and has great experience.

@Gary - We are wine from the same vintage my friend. I had forgotten your Optima. But dude, you have a burr about Miele. It's Ok. You have a sensible approach and it's based in technical knowledge. And if I didn't thank you properly for help with the board that went with the crazy lightning strike then I apologize and do thank you. It was a quick repair and the oven has been perfect since. I got good advice then and tremendous, tremendous help when I had to replace the refrigerator.

But I tell it like it is for me. Others may have different experience.

As you may recall, my DW, now 13 hasn't had a service call either.

And since I replaced with Miele -- I'm on my third round of that because I bought stupid 13 years ago -- I've had no aggravation even when my washer heater failed and they had to replace the machine. The regional supervisor came on the service call for the washer to check it out. Who else is doing that besides Wolf these days? Certainly no one in the Whirlpoof family.

I get great Miele service. I get a person on the phone and phone tech support. I can also compare that with the cra**y Viking service drama that went on for 10 years. What happens in S.F. may be different. No idea. I don't live there. But if it's not good I expect Miele will clean it up because that's what they seem to do. And anyone in CA can call Princeton and complain.

I live in hurricane country- I have certainly lit my previous wolf burners during a power outage. Need my coffee and I need to feed the kids. People have been venting these ranges without MUA for decades- boiling some water doesn't worry me.

My Thermador has 2 (out of 6) burners that can be manually lit.

Just a bit of concern: there are a lot of folks saying that they want a gas cooktop so they can still cook during power outages. Um - do ya'll realize how dangerous that is? You are depleting your oxygen without any make up air / exhausting the fumes and in today's tight houses - that's a real concern.

I've used my gas cooktop during power outages a number of times, without issue. We do keep a carbon monoxide detector in working order. I don't see how the short cooking sessions I would do during a power outage would present a threat. I often use my cooktop without using any ventilation, without a power outage, and there has been no issue.

Thanks for all the feedback - seems to have stirred up the bee hive a bit but the discussion really helps.

I have been sharing the discussion with my wife and we will revisit our induction/gas decision one more time by trying out the induction. My preference would be to have a combination of gas and induction (I remember seeing such a setup on a cooktop in France) but does not seem popular here except for what I have seen from Wolf but the installation does not look clean and takes too much room). I have spent some time thinking what I would miss if I went induction and other than a few aluminum cooking pans, a couple of woks, and a few others - the rest of my cookware is induction ready) I would really not need gas for 99% of my cooking needs (once in a while I roast eggplant and puff up chapatis (Indian bread) directly on the gas stove) but otherwise induction should work.

I have always liked the look of the induction cooktop (and would go well with our kitchen design) and the ease of cleaning. Heat generation in the kitchen is important as I tend to have 3-4 items on the stove and when cooking curries or sauces the kitchen can get warm over time - though good ventilation should help). I do have a gas grill with an external burner so I do have a backup in case I need one - comes down to whether we want to learn a new way of cooking or not.

I have another 3 weeks to make up my mind so will keep reading and visiting showrooms - will let everyone know what we decide to do. I think our decision will be between Bosch and Wolf again - with the discount I get from my builder the Wolf seems to be a lot cheaper ($500) so that may be the choice - I believe the cooktop surface looked better as well.

ocean,

Are you referring to Indian curries? If so, induction is a revelation. Browning onions for Desi Murgh curry and Roghan Josh is wonderful. You get brown onions not some burnt and some none colored pieces. Simmering a curry without burning all the sugars from onion and Tomatoes is wonderful. Making a good Dal Makhani without any burnt bits below. Induction allows me to do all if this. I also make Baignan with a grill pan if doing it in the kitchen or I just use use my grill. If you use a pressure cooker, getting to pressure on a cooktop is great. I never have burned bits of rice when I make rice based dishes.

Good luck!

In Europe, (Australia as well), there are options of getting one cooktop with combination of gas and induction apart from multiple units of domino hobs. This new model from ATAG is pretty cook, with matt surface that claimed to withstand (or hide) scratch better. Control for gas hob is even digital. Larger induction hob on the right is 5.5 kW and the bridge is 3.7 kW. This one comes in around 36" (90cm).

Their previous model is as interesting, and some people might prefer that with mechanical hob control for gas hob, and two sets of bridge unit.

If there is no real need to use gas regularly, there is an option of a table top gas butane burner for rare occasion for charring pepper or something. Wok cooking is fine for round bottom wok on flat induction unit with suitable wok ring, e.g. De Buyer or Electrolux. I use Chinese carbon steel and cast iron wok on both of my gas and induction hobs. Each set up would work and has their pro and con i.e. on gas it is easier to control heat, but it can not get hot as fast as on induction etc.

Thanks - yes the image above looks like what I saw a few years ago. I'm surprised this is not offered in the states as it would seem to make the move to induction a lot easier for people used to gas or wanting to use a few of their existing cookware. I had all 4 of my gas burners running pretty high yesterday and the kitchen was noticeably warmer, especially around the stove and reinforced the desire to check out an induction cooktop one more time - warm kitchens in Houston are not necessarily comfortable in the summer!

Regarding the induction wok ring - I see what they look like on the internet - I assume if is effective to transfer heat to the Wok - does the ring itself get extremely hot and is it safe for all induction cooktops? I see some induction cooktops do not recommend the use of an induction ring. With the ring covering the diameter of the hob does the induction hob also heat the wok itself or is all heat transfer through the ring?

If I go induction I am considering the Wolf induction cooktop. It has 4 8" hobs and one 10.5" with several bridging options. Am I right in assuming that (a) smaller pots - say 4 - 6" should work on the 8" hob and the goal is if you want to use a larger pot - say 10" you should not place it on the 8" hob but the 8" or is their some latitude of a couple of inches in diameter both ways? From what I understand the Wolf 36" induction allows bridging of all 4 8" hobs so I could use a pot with a larger diameter that 10" (not that I have one) in the middle.

I am planning to make an appointment with the Subzero/Wolf showroom to take me thru all the features of the induction cooktop and if they allow me I will try to cook a few quick meals to get a feel but any information you guys can provide would be great.

"NEVER think to light (gas stove) in a power outage" - Wow, just wow! We're really starting to tilt at windmills in this post now aren't we. Of the fifty years I've managed to just barely survive on the planet with gas ranges, only the last eleven has included an externally venting hood. Where I grew up, and I guarantee you to this day, everyone has gas ranges and virtually no one has externally venting hoods, make up air, or any casualties associated with oxygen depletion. Good lord, this is crazy talk.

Now I'm a huge proponent of externally venting hoods, cavernous capture area, and evaluating your MUA, and I've advised friends often on the benefits of getting induction, but gas is a very practical and preferable option for some.

Stevep,

Newer homes are built to a different standard than homes built 50years ago. Air sealing and insulation make a big difference in the indoor air quality. Just because we have always done something, does not make it the best option either. People cooked with wood burning appliances in doors also. When you know better, you do better. Not only that, manufacturers are telling users not to light these stoves without electricity. I would err on the side of caution.

What Jannicone was saying was about the issues that come with completely air tight houses. I have a modern house with double paned windows, insulated walls, etc., and it's nowhere near tight. The inspector warned me not to run the gas dryer with the laundry closet door closed because it didn't get enough ventilation, however. The easy solution to the problem of using gas in a very air tight house in a power outage, however, is to open a window in the kitchen. There are other worrying problems with very tight houses, such as mold and outgassing materials, which are harder to deal with.

The bigger issue for power outages is to make sure you can manually ignite your burners.

Another consideration might be to install a 4 burner gas rangetop plus a 2 burner induction unit. Best of both worlds.

I'm in my new kitchen for a year now. Have the Bosch Benchmark Double Side-Swing Ovens and am very happy with them! Work like a charm and look terrific. Have a 36 inch Benchmark gas cooktop which is also terrific, The center burner is incredibly powerful and the simmer works well. My 36 inch integrated Sub Zero with double freezer drawers has worked well and Sub Zero really stands by their products. Needed water filter replaced (should replace it every year as my model has interior water dispenser) and they threw in a freebie. Love my Liebherr Beverage cooler RU500 although I think there's a newer model--it's very quiet and keeps drinks at the perfect temp leaving more room in my Sub-Zero fridge (integrated models are shallower) Bosch Benchmark Dishwasher also running complaint-free. My only complaint is my XtremeAir Range Hood-----it's THE WORST! I wanted a stronger model (and with baffles rather than mesh) than Bosch offered. Was also looking for a modern aesthetic and though I was a bit nervous about going with a newer brand, I decided to give them a go, plus they said they were made in America (not all together true, I came to find out) Within the first week, the touchpad malfunctioned and couldonly use the remote. I contacted them and I was shocked to be informed that they have no service or tech support to come to my residence for repair. They sent another touch-pad for my husband and I to try to install. I was off-put by this but went ahead and took time out of our day-off to remove the old one and install the new one. Well, that worked for all of a month. Then the overhead lights started blinking on and off----like seizure-inducing on and off! I called, I emailed begging for them to send a tech (still under one year warranty) and all they did was send another part with an "instructional install" video so shaky and poorly produced, that it was useless. They couldn't even take the time to have someone hold the iphone and film while the tech was showing the procedure--it was like a selfie instructional with nothing on camera but a dizzying, shaky shot of the ceiling and walls. I mean, at this point, don't you think they could've called a local repair company and footed the bill (as states on their warranty) instead of dealing with a very frustrated and disappointed customer! I repeat..DO NOT BUY XTREME AIR!!

http://www.xtremeairusa.com/shop/pages.php?pID=15&CDpath=0

thanks for the update @nadianyc. As a sometime obsessive reader of appliance threads, I appreciate it when people come back and post their experiences!

Hello, @oceanengineer I have a bit of an odd, but interesting ask. I am an independent consultant with research and innovation firm in San Francisco, CA. My firm is currently recruiting for a project with consumers who have recently completed a kitchen renovation that included built-ins. We are looking to speak with:

1. Couples or families (age 35+) who live either in the city or in the suburbs.

2. They like to entertain and are passionate about great beverage experiences (that can be hot, cold, alcoholic or not, anything).

3. They're homeowners and they've remodeled their kitchen in the last couple of years and are financially very comfortable.

This will be a paid study. Please let me know if you have any interest, and I can arrange a call to give you more detail.

Best, Keleigh