I think the bottom line is that you need to tell her you won't be making any social commitments with her. How that's worded can be tricky, and I don't envy you!

"I'm sorry, I don't see us having a relationship outside of school"

"Why?"

"I don't feel a kinship or connection with you. I'm sorry if that hurts you, and I wish you all the best"

Make your statements "I"-based, not "you" based. No, "you are negative", or "you aren't fun to be around", or "I would rather wear a bra made of porcupine quills than hang out with you", or "you could make an onion cry".

She probably won't get it, but after you briefly and succinctly refuse her, hang up, leave, end email and texts. You owe her absolutely nothing more.

Best of luck with this!

eld6161's approach ("So sorry but my life is just too busy to add further commitments.") seems the most relevant.

(Deep breath) I have a friend who is very negative. Many people at work and community have a difficult time with her (and she with them). But, she is one of the most intelligent, knowledgeable, generous-with-talents people I know. We get together from time to time and support one another, and it is one of my most treasured friendships. Now, I am relentlessly optimistic, a little less so when life sucks (which it does right now), so I do have that going for me. We kind of roll our eyes at each other about our differences. Kind of like Weezer et al in Steel Magnolias. But honestly, what is the harm in occasionally doing something with this person? I agree that "we should be best friends" is off-putting, I avoid people like that. My fear would be that she wants to talk on the phone every day, or get together more often, but one truly can put that off honestly.

I was at an event recently at an retirement home. I heard a couple of the women remark about another resident "I'm so glad she's not at our table, oh my gosh here she comes" and some mean comments, and I thought Criminy, we never outgrow our junior high school years.

I was thinking along lines of bpathome. She may want to socialize with you in hopes of eventually learning why people are averse to her and how to improve. IOW, she may want your good qualities to stick to her. It is your prerogative to advise or not. The enlightened way would be to "befriend and love", but I'd be less enlightened and just not give her time of day, within range of white lies to brutal honesty, a personal choice.

I was at an event recently at an retirement home. I heard a couple of the women remark about another resident "I'm so glad she's not at our table, oh my gosh here she comes" and some mean comments, and I thought Criminy, we never outgrow our junior high school years.

*****

Sadly, that's the way it is in many retirement communities, often separated along bigoted lines.

My mom experienced this and I remember just wanting to punch the dentures out of some people!

There are ways to be "honest" without being brutal. I had a friend like this, and I was always pleasant to her, told her I hoped she was doing well, but just had other plans when she wanted to do something with me, I was busy, tired, whatever. I didn't lie and I didn't tell her I didn't like her or want to ever see her again. Why burn bridges. She eventually got the message. Needy people look for people who will be a sucker and make time for them. Just don't be one of those, don't spend time with her to be nice, but don't be "not nice" by telling her you don't want to be her friend. That's not something that needs to be said.

I had a friend who was very negative and would call daily with stories of how she got verbal with someone in the supermarket, restaurant, drug store, members of her HOA or through one of her online dealings. I couldn't take it anymore. If I tried to bring another side into the conversation she would argue about that. I started avoiding many of her calls. Husband refused to go to dinner with her even though we both really liked her husband. I finally reached my breaking point when she gave unsolicited parenting advice. She never even had a dog or cat let alone a kid. I simply made a clean break and refused all contact by ignoring calls. It's a shame it had to be that way but it would have ended up a newer drama for her to argue about if I'd done it any other way. What's sad is that deep down I think she is a good person but I'm no trained psychologist and she was sucking the life out of me.

When you dislike someone as much as you have described here, I don't think extending any kind of friendship is the answer, but being anything but honest and kind when rejecting her only means you're in some ways no better than she is. You've received a lot of good answers and even some great dialog on how you can express yourself without being hurtful. I hope you're able to work it out so that you get the results you're after without it being too uncomfortable.

Unless someone is truly mentally ill, you can avoid someone fairly easily. You can screen calls and say you're going to be very busy for the whole month if she does manage to get a hold of you, etc. Most sane people will drop you after months of neglect, they won't keep at it.

That sounds nice but I have decided to take the summer off. Completely OFF. I'm sure I'll run into you at school next year but for now, I plan to be a total hermit as much as I can. Have a great summer!

I like Fori's idea.

After reading the last few posts, it was mentioned that you will be going back to substitute teach, and will be running into the co worker in the halls.

My question to you is, do you socialize with other teachers outside of the school? If you do not, than that would be your go-to answer. "Sorry, but I make it a rule not to carry my work friendships into my personal friendships."

Frankly the next time she brought it up I would use my most kind voice and tell her something like 'Although we have a great working relationship I don't think we're compatible as friends' - don't let her argue the point or try to draw further explanation out of you, end the conversation as pleasantly as you can. Of course, any kind of rebuffing may make her difficult to deal with at school but maybe you'll get lucky and she'll take what you said to heart and keep any association solely at the school.

Or.....I take my personal friendships seriously and I don't have enough time for the friends that I have now. I'm sorry but I just can't add another friend.

"I'm sorry, that's not going to happen. Have a great summer!"

I like to be concise, I'm not a fibber and I like to end on a positive note.

I don't see any reason to go through all this. Just say no thank you ( each time) and move on. No need to belabor it or hurt her feelings with honesty.

I'm with snookums. Say no thank you. You owe no explanation; just say no.

I pretty much agree with snookums and I pink. You really don't owe any explanations, nor would I lie. I also wouldn't be unkind about it either. Just decline the invitations, and move on.

I agree that there's no explanation needed. Say no and neither volunteer nor respond with a "reason" if pressed. Repeat the phrase "no thanks" like you're a broken record if necessary when you see her in public, and don't take her calls when she calls or texts. Block her number even. You don't have to be nasty to a person, but you also don't have to live in fear that they're around every corner trying to get to you, if you just consistently respond with an assertive "no" and nothing more.

It's easier said than done, because I think we are wired to feel we need to explain ourselves when we don't wish to do something. We are not obligated to do so, however. This is something I'm currently in training for myself in dealing with someone who drains the life from me. Just knowing that I can say no and walk away without anything more is something I find very empowering.

I think those of us who have definite ideas about what we'd say, may be differently wired or with vastly different styles than ladypat - given that she feels a need to post the question here. With a woman who is so brash asking to be her best friend, "No thanks" is likely to be followed by a barrage of "why?"s, or "when?"s. The broken record technique is pretty useless in that scenario and most people would then feel trapped into saying something in response to "why" or "when"? Just saying "no thank you" over and over in response to a "why?" doesn't really work.

I think Fori's response is perfect. It shuts down any dialog while giving a reasonable and not unkind excuse.

I disagree, Oly, because eventually the person demanding a reason is going to give up and just stop asking. It's a power play, to be sure, but so is making demands on another person such as this woman would be aggressively doing if she did keep asking "why?".

It is a technique that not everyone is going to feel comfortable with, but I'm learning it's quite effective in dealing with someone who is demanding and manipulative. Why should they get to "win" and why should I feel I've been duped into giving information I really don't even want to give? Of course, it all depends on what we want the outcome to be. You kinda have to really not care how the other person perceives you when you stonewall them with a broken record response.

I've already stated what I would do, but I want to comment on brutal honesty. Anytime a person, let alone a pushy person, hears NO to their request, that is brutal honesty. It doesn't necessarily mean you say: "you worthless piece #$%%, I don't want to be your $%%^ friend, EVER. that's just cruelty and I doubt anybody is advocating that. Brutal can mean not what the requester is expecting and can be uttered with the sweetest of smiles. Again, it is a matter of communication style and preference. Here is one of the definitions of brutal: direct and lacking any attempt to disguise unpleasantness. and here are synonyms

synonyms:unsparing, unstinting, unembellished, unvarnished, bald, naked, stark, blunt, direct, straightforward, frank, outspoken, forthright, plain-spoken;

And as to Fioris answer, it is a smooth, civilized rejection. But what happens if OP runs into pushy gal not 1, not 2, but 3 times? Then it becomes a white lie, plain and simple.

Snookums suggestion is probably best. "no thanks" and get on with it.

I have been running with a group of women for probably 15 years and I go to the same gym classes and book club as one of them. It is obviously really difficult to distance myself from this person. We used to do coffee and lunch but she is a negative and a gossipy person and it is these traits that finally have forced me to distance myself from her.

When she has suggested things I have simply said "I can't, but thanks". I don't produce an excuse but I simply let her believe that I am busy with my mom or my nieces. The friendship has cooled but we do still run together but I try not to partner up with her.

I feel badly for having done this as I do feel sorry for her for a number of reasons which is why I hung out with her in the first place, but that's no basis for a friendship.

I have to admit that I agonize over situations like this, wracking my brain to come up with the perfect reply. If DH is around when I'm trying to excuse myself he'll just remind me that I do not have to explain myself and that the less said the better. DH has also leaned over my shoulder and kissed my cheek to remind me of the old "KISS" which of course means Keep it simple, stupid or as he loves to add - sweetheart.

It doesn't happen frequently but I think most of us have encountered a similar experience. My one little hint is to write it down-----have it right in front of you when she calls so that you can refer to it. The simplest answer might just be the best - "Oh thanks for the offer but I can't" and you can repeat that a few times if necessary. If it drags on then tell her you have to go and that you'll see her when school starts and then say Goodbye.

Hope it all works out for you.

Maire

I've distanced myself from a cousin, and also from a long time friend, when I started feeling that I was never giving them enough time, they always wanted more, as someone said above " they were sucking the life out of me" - it took a lot of time and since I'm not confrontational, it had to be done with a lot of turned down invitations, not returning calls, I do wish I would have been able to do it more swiftly and clearly, I did not have that emotional courage then, alas.....

After reading all of the above, I realize I could have made life easier for myself if I had read this sooner in my life.

Making it a priority to be surrounded by who you WANT to have in your life is key.

You pick, not them.

This is a pretty good (short) article on saying no, and gives advice on giving a "because" to the "no" if one feels they just have to do so. I like the way these statements were phrased.

http://blog.highperformancelifestyle.net/how-to-say-no/

Too, this simple phrase resonates with me right now:

Fori's idea is a good one. Just tell her you are going to take a break from everyone and everything for a while as a start to your retirement. Clear, concise, nothing to defend or argue. I honestly don't feel you owe her a "because" since that could be interpreted as "oh, well there is a reason this time, so maybe next time..." Then, unlike the others, I would just not open her texts (she will be able to see when you you have read them which would encourage her to continue) or answer her phone calls. If she does find your house and drop in, no need to answer the door.

I have a friend who is wonderful. I love doing things with her because she's interesting, fun, we have lots in common. 20+ years ago, I introduced her to another very good friend of mine who lived near her, who also was raising a toddler, as I thought they'd get along. They did and still do some things together. In the beginning, the friend I mentioned first, kept wanting the 3 of us to get together, but I didn't want that. It changed the dynamic of my interactions with each of them and it never felt like I got a good visit with either of them. It took a lot of "no, thanks'" for her to stop trying to get the 3 of us together, but she eventually did.

Now, it's still a little awkward, because friend #2 and I are very compatible travel companions and often take little excursions. Friend #1 is better for me in small doses and the thought of traveling with her, or sharing a room, gives me great anxiety - she's perfectly lovely, but will go off on talking tangents until I'm hearing about her 2nd cousin's neighbor that blah, blah, blah. I've long before zoned out on how she got to that place/person and just want to tell her to stop talking! She continually, still, invites me to join her at some great places, but I just can't. The best way I've been able to handle it is to just say, "Sorry, I can't right now." And to avoid hurt feelings, friend #2 and I don't mention our away times. I don't like the omission, but it seems the only way to preserve the part of the relationship I value.

Oly, I feel for you. People who "hold court" by incessant talking drain every ounce of energy from me. I'm dealing with that very thing right now, and it's especially sensitive. I'm going to take some time today to actually sit and write down my thoughts because I have got to come to terms with how to handle it. I already plan to distance myself from it as much as possible, but that comes at a cost to me because I'll have to give up some things I enjoy in order to do so. It's complicated and I digress -- but just wanted to say that I completely understand how the incessant talking is destructive.

TR, thanks. Luckily for me, my friend lives over an hour away and I usually visit her because she's in the city so we go out to the opera, ballet or theater, etc. We can do things in short spurts. One time, when she had an important thing going on in her life, we met for the opera. She rushed into the restaurant where we were having dinner first, sat down, started talking and LITERALLY talked through the whole dinner, talked the 3 blocks to the opera house, talked until the curtain went up. At that point, I had totally just suspended any feelings about it
all, and was just observing the whole thing dispassionately, wondering how long she could go on. At intermission, she turned to me and for the 1st time all evening, said, "How are things with you?" To be fair, she values my opinion and often will ask for it, after giving me the (too much) information.

It sounds like your situation is closer to home/daily life. My friend is welcome to come stay overnight in my home (which she does on occasion) because if she gets wound up, I can just excuse myself and go to bed. I have a pretty high tolerance up to a point, so most of a day with her is fine, on into evening it can get wearing. Sometimes if she's on a tangent, I'll just interrupt her and ask a completely unrelated question. Seems really rude, but it works!

I hope you find a solution that isn't too hard for you.

I haven't read all the responses.

White lies serve a social purpose. They allow those you reject to save face. Most people can discern them and shuffle along. I don't think anyone would want to be told "I do not want to be friends with you" or even worse, "I do not want to be friends with you because you are ____".

If she is unable to discern the brush off, I totally agree that you need to be selfish and protect your time ... perhaps easiest done by a vague "Sorry I am busy" and then ignoring her. Especially since it would be very hypocritical to appear to be a "friend" when in fact you suggested she should be fired. That would be awkward!

In no event would I take it upon myself to tell her why you believe her to be flawed and unworthy of your time (I'm not being sarcastic; time is precious!). It is highly unlikely that your insight would be well received or a teaching moment. It would be very stressful for you to do. But moreover, you have every right to make that judgment about her for purposes of deciding how to spend your time. But if you decide to "set her straight", it's almost as if you presume to speak for society at large and need her to see the error of her ways. And who are you to do that?

We "know" you and not her, so we are all on your side and we take your assessment on faith. But it isn't exactly some fact that you have a duty to apprise her of ... it is your judgment and preference.

Boy, there's enough good ideas here to last a lifetime!

Like mitchdesj, I have a cousin I've detached from, mainly due to her pathological, relentless lying. We live in the same town & she & her family are often @ family get-togethers, where I am cordial & polite, but distant w/ her. I simply stopped picking up the phone when she called & never returned calls either. She apparently got the message & stopped calling me. I have never been rude or expressed my true feelings to her, just erected an emotional boundary & kept it there.

Just curious, has anyone been on the receiving end of the brush-offs we are discussing? How long did it take you to get the idea?

Funny, BP, I was thinking the same thing. I certainly don't recall it, but maybe our mind would block it out!? I tend to think I have had an opposite problem, ie not being outgoing enough and therefore perhaps missing opportunities for more connections. I have a friend I admire very much who has a ton of friends, both close and casual. I have made a point the last few years of trying to be more like her. She is thoughtful, she tries to help people and introduce people to each other, she seems to genuinely care about people, she is quick to compliment people and to strike up friendships and go out of her way to include others. My parents had some very close friends, but were not very social and came from small families, so I did not have a role model in my Mom as much as I see in this woman.

Maybe....a lifetime ago I had a work buddy that I liked a lot for his smarts and exquisite sense of humor. When his wife was diagnosed w/breast cancer I was as upset and as supportive as I knew how to be. He moved to a slower paced e. tx town and lo and behold becomes city manager. We own land near him so had acquaintances in common. I called a number of times (but not a gazillion) to touch base w/him and his wife. Absolutely no response. I've since given up trying, I don't even know if his wife is still alive. When I comment on the subject to DH he suggests "X" was never good at follow up or closing loops and his not returning calls was just par for the course. I'm adhering to this thought as the notion of being the dreaded friend from hell is more than I can bear. Rejection can be a bitter pill to swallow and the taste must be remembered when we're on the dispensing end. There! I'm brave to admit it.

Lukkiirish- You rock! LOL

I agree with your first answer. How would you deal with it if a man was asking you out and you were not interested? Same thing. Nice, thanks but no thanks....then stop responding.

Bossyvossy- We had a friend who lost her husband and she quit talking to all of us. I found out later, it was too difficult for her to associate with his friends (we all knew him first) once he was gone. We reminded her of the fun times we all had together and she wanted to move on with her life.

We had the same experience with my fave neighbor of all times. We socialized as couples. DH died suddenly and wife kept her distance afterwards. I still miss her but I must have understood on some level b/c it didn't affect me too much. "X" didn't really hurt me, it confused me more than anything. ancient history. I was in sales in my prof life and couldn't have done well if I felt apart when I heard NO. Was good training for all other aspects of my life.

"DH died suddenly and wife kept her distance afterwards." From the other side of this, when my husband died, I did not have the emotional energy to initiate things with our friends and I had always been a planner/initiator, party giver, etc. I really wanted our friends to take those things on, but they really didn't and I found I wasn't included in dinners out or movies, or other activities that just another couple might plan. I don't know if it's because couples favor hanging out with other couples, or what, but there were lots of long and lonely nights and weekends that I would have loved a movie or dinner invite, until I could find my mojo again. My social circle pretty much changed completely after that, except for a few couples who hung in there. My single female friends were my lifeline.

Thank you! Lavender, I appreciate that!

BP, I can't imagine that there's anyone who hasn't. We all go through positive and negative times and can be unpleasant to be around I think, so it goes in life. If someone I know or have just met invites me to get together, but I can't (for whatever reason), I'll reply I can't but I'll also suggest an alternative that could work for me because I'm interested, if I'm not interested, I just say I can't but thank you for thinking of me. It's the same when the shoe is on the other foot. If I suggest getting together and the invite isn't accepted and alternatives aren't offered, I don't try again but I don't take it personal either. I figure it's to each his own.

When I was growing up, our neighborhood was really really close and we all did things together all the time but when my dad passed suddenly in an accident, my mother pulled away from everyone as well. She was still cordial and would have occassional conversations but nothing even close to what it once was. She remained in the same house and has kept in touch with the few who are still around, most of them have now passed.

Years later I asked her about it and she said it was because everyone knew her as Joe's wife and she felt it would be harder for her to live as a single person and rebuild her life if she hadn't. They also respresented a really happy time that was lost forever and it was painful.

I'm a pretty friendly person, meet a lot of people, and get and give brush offs regularly which is just friendships sorting themselves into categories of closeness depending on mutual interest. BUT due to being bullied viciously as a child, I am very aware of brush offs and don't ever push a situation in which a person doesn't seem that interested.

For example, if I put the ball in your court (message me if you have time to go out for dinner next week, I'd love to catch up!) and get no response or vague response (no attempt at a reschedule if the person is busy) I totally leave it alone.

Maybe I'm just avoidant but I feel the white lie/avoiding is the kindest policy. I would never EVER personally want to hear from someone that I'm too boring to catch dinner with. And I would never tell someone that either. I had a roommate who maybe has social issues and to me she grew into the most annoying human in the workd. She still, 8 years later, occasionally tries to keep in touch and I just ignore and avoid.

I did do a social intervention once on a close friend. He is a great guy, super smart, fun and funny, very cultured and kind. But after a breakup he began to be extremely self-centred and woe is me. I mean...two years after a two year relationship. He was a real Eeyore. So I sent him an email saying I loved him, he was a great friend, but he was really hard to be around, and explained why. I challenged him to only think or talk about other people for a week instead of always talking about himself. Because he is a great person, he accepted the challenge. my presumption paid off and he actually really turned his life around and found another girlfriend a couple of months later (they are still together almost 10 years later).

I attempted something similar last year-I swear it's not a habit of chiding friends!- with another person who had been a close friend. He was always incandescently angry about social injustice and he was turning off, silencing and scaring the very people (women and people of colour) he thought he was "protecting." He took the message seriously but didn't change his ways for long and we are no longer friends.

Now that I think back, almost 20 years ago I did another intervention with a friend to a third friend about wearing deodorant and the need thereof. That intervention was taken in good humor but ignored thoroughly and I actually ended up dating the stinky boy...what can I say, he had a lot of charisma. My roommate hated when he came over. He was also the guy who slept on a mattress he found in an alley. Let's just say we usually hung out at my apartment.

I would say something along the lines of what Fori said but I wouldn't say " taking the summer off" because I think she will hear "then we'll get together and become friends in the fall."

i would say " I'm going to be very busy in my retirement but I'll see you at school when I sub." That lets her know you only intend to see her at school and shuts down the idea of get togethers outside of school.

If she persists, just repeat " we'll see each other when I sub" and ignore calls and texts.

If she's so dense she still doesn't get it, you will just have to be more direct and tell her kindly but bluntly that you prefer to just remain friendly coworkers and nothing more.

I had to get out of a book club because of a very negative person who thrived on drama. Although I missed some of the people and the discussions, it was a big relief once I did it. I didn't give any explanation, just said I was not going to be able to participate anymore. I think they probably assumed it was my new responsibilities helping my elderly parents. I do still get together with a couple of them occasionally, but not the negative one!

It's hard for me to say no, and I have had to train myself to do it. I think for me it's about being taught to be kind, nurturing, etc. and somehow saying no feels unkind. However, I have discovered that my well being depends on it.

Texanjana, I know. Sometimes saying "no" to someone else is saying "yes" to yourself!

"He made some general comment about that some teachers would pull the age discrimination card, and would result in an expensive lawsuit." This is another way of saying that no one who is or has been her supervisor has ever provided her with any realistic feedback. As a society, we talk a lot about training teachers getting rid of teacher tenure but we really need to train or the supervisors- or cut a huge administrative level of useless supervisors out of the budget. Poor supervision is the reason that poor teachers are still there, not because the lousy teacher is going to play the age discrimination card. I would not be remotely surprised find out that she has a 20 or 30 year track record of excellent reviews... And that's the real reason they can't fire her.

I like Jonieponie's approach because I think it's closest to reality. You will have to deal with this person when you sub so there's no reason to be anything other than cordial but you don't have to be a close friend.

Bpathome I think we all understand that are being brushed off almost instantaneously with the brushoff. What takes many years longer, if understanding comes at all, is why? Sometimes it would certainly be for a reason that has everything to do with us, other times it has to do with the person delivering the brush off, at other times it's just a complete misunderstanding on the part of one or both persons... My guess is that more often than not it's probably explained by a combination of these reasons.

I think Joanie, in her reworking of fori's response, has a great solution. Kind, but honest. I just know that, for myself, when I tell those white lies I feel awful and it is always there - a weight on my back. A kind but honest (but not too honest) refusal is a much lighter load and leaves me feeling more respect for myself and I think others respect it more, too. This person may be clueless, but I think on some level, everyone sees through the lame excuses and white lies.

Honestly, at my age I can almost always use "I'm too tired or I'm too busy" as my excuse and not lie! :) And some of you must have run into way more stalkerish people than I have in my life. The two that I have dealt with in my life got the message that I wasn't going to be their friend with way less drama than I see described here.

This reminds me of a time when I must have been on the receiving end of a brush-off. DH and I had invited another couple over for dinner and they had said the date we mentioned wouldn't work. So we suggested the following week, and they said, oh, dear, they were going to be out of town for both of those dates! so sorry! We didn't think anything was strange until that particular weekend when they posted on Facebook that they were sitting at home with absolutely nothing to do. We thought it was hilarious but we certainly got the message! But it's something to remember if you do use any of those "white lies" for excuses--don't contradict yourself on Facebook!