That's why I can see the waterproofing was not done properly. Tile is cosmetic. You should be able to take a shower without any tile installed. If not your shower was not waterproofed correctly. The vertical right corner should be taped with alkali resistant mesh then covered with thinset and followed with the waterproofing. Clearly there is not any waterproofing there and it's to late to get it in the corner behind that tile. In a shower installation what you don't see behind the tile is way more important than a bad looking tile job. Actually it's more important than a beautiful looking tile installation.

OK, I am confused. I don't know what "folds" mean. And suztq is correct, the face/front of bench is not tiled yet. Creative, are you saying that from the picture I posted, you can tell that the waterproofing wasn't done right? Perhaps the green Hydroban still needs to be worked on, before the tile goes on the face of seat.

Example of a fold would be a 12" tile meets the corner and must be cut to 8" now the 4" piece would start the next wall from that point. The attached photo shows a 1/3 offset and a diagonal folded. The reason I went to 1/3 was to avoid the small cut at the corner which occured with the 1/2 offset. The best way to explain the waterproofing would be watching a Laticrete Hydroban installation video.

https://laticrete.com/our-products/tile-and-stone-installation-and-maintenance/waterproofing/hydro-ban

Oh I see Creative means they should have put the tape around the corner before they tiled the right wall in the shower. Do you think they didn't tape any of the corners or niches? Did you see them taping any of the seams or corners or niches under the tile?

agree w/ creative on all points once again.

DebT youre bench as Creative stated is not being waterproofed properly unless and only if those seat tiles are dry laid for the picture and work in progress, still I am seeing improper / poor application. if you are questioning skillset evident in setting the bathtub youre concerns i dare say very valid with both projects.- best

We did not see them do taping or the application of hydroban as we aren't there all the time. This is a new house being built by a very reputable local contractor.

Well be advised, hydroban requires either the laticrete 6"Fleece fabric / alkalai resistant mesh and hydro at all changes of plane on every tub and shower. So does the TCNA.-best

Hydroban ? it should look like a tennis court

Ask the builder how long they had to wait for flood test? Answer would be 2 hours. I'll bet $$$ they didn't flood test it. I'm sure Tundra would take that bet also:) If I had a dollar for each time we heard the reputable contractor statement I could go out for a mighty nice dinner. The tile setter is clearly a rookie. (we all started somewhere) None of this is your fault and you are correct to question things. Photo's of progress when building or remodeling are your best defense.

The installer centered the tile and cuts for a symmetrical look. But IMO that's about all he did right. With a 4"X 4" tile, a 2" cut is commonplace in a staggered pattern. The larger the tile, the larger the cut should be. A 1" or 2" cut with large format IMO shows lack of planning, no design sense or both.

Professionals measure the space to calculate the amount of tile needed for the body, bullnose, butterflies, corners, etc., before ordering . Knowing dimensions of the space and size of tile, they know pretty close how wide cuts are going to be.

A 1" or 2" cut in large format IMO is unacceptable. Installer should have realized there would be small cuts, and presented homeowner with options such as a one-third stagger or larger size tiles that also could have required one-third or one-fourth stagger.

The tile between the decorative rows should have been cut lengthwise to provide more uniform joints.

I started off concerned about the tub surround not looking quite right and now you have me believing the whole job is no good. :(

@CTEC you know i will

Not sure Deb, but maybe ask them. If they didn't its a bad scene. I'm hoping the shower bench was an add on and this is a one off.

I'm not a fan of the boarder idea, too much going on there. Was it the tile installers idea? As CTEC stated, a staggered look might have been better, or.. a difference choice in tile size. As for the shower with the bench, I always prefer a slab of stone. All that stuff about waterproofing etc, any good tile installer should know what proper materials to use.

@Deb T You should believe that the whole job isn’t good because it isn’t. No tears needed- your reputable builder hired a novice or liar because these substandard installations will result in water leaks, water damage, mold, wood rot, etc. You need to take your photos and new knowledge to the builder and demand that both baths get redone properly at his and/or installer’s expense. Put your info in writing (email him first with all details) and recap any conversations in emails also so you have a trail. Also, if you have taken a construction loan out, make sure no $ is paid out to tile installer yet.

That tile job is a mess and obviously not done by any pro i woiuld with.

It all starts with the design from a ''tile store'' person who has never held a trowel in their hands in their life. Then it goes to the builder who hired his ''tile guy'' because of price rather than skill. None of this aligns with how a real world quality job should be done.

In the real world, if you want a quality result, you find the quality tile technician first, before materials selection and design is finalized. You verify his methodology of construction and waterproofing on the front end. Then you discuss the tile design with him and any design professional that you also have on board. Some designs aren't technically possible to make happen within the constraints of the dimensions that exist. In other words, the tile size doesn't work with the desired design. If the material or the design needs to be changed, it's better to find that out during the design phase on paper rather than after it's on the walls.

The no waterproofing goes right back to your builder, and his choice of ''tile guy'' over a true tile professional. So, he saved 3-4K there. And now he will have to rip it all out and start over. Hope he learns his lesson. Think about all of the other leaking showers that he has done over the years and feel VERY lucky that you won't be one of them!

Adalisa is absolutely correct in her advice. And whatever you decide -- start IMMEDIATELY to document with pictures and emails. Once the job is complete you, your leverage is greatly diminished.

And the tub surround should have been coated with Hydro ban too, I gather? I don't know if it was as it was tiled between my visits.

You shouldn't wait until the tile is done to complain about it. I don't feel that waterproofing is necessary to the walls in a bathtub. As long as hardiboard or cement board was used. The niche should have been waterproofed with something standard like redguard, which can be bought at Home Depot. Hydroban I feel, is more of a commercial application, i've only used it at Rutgers university as a pan liner. It works... But I don't know how I feel about it using it over wood frame construction. The stand up shower I prefer a rubber pan liner. And at least 2' should have had some waterproofing including the seat, especially if you're tiling he seat. Did your contractor do the job with permits? Here is New Jersey if you replace a shower pan liner, you need to have it water tested.

In all honesty, the tile work doesn't look that bad, you don't see oozing of glue/thinset out from the joints, etc. I've seen much worse. I wouldn't blame the tile installer, its mostly the contractors fault.

@prestige tile, just because the tile job is not the worst that can be, it doesn't mean it can be accepted..Sorry, but if a tile installer doesn't know how to properly arrange the tile and does this kind of a job, he/she should find a different job. What do you mean by not blaming the installer? Isn't he/she the one who installed that?

The tile size and design is the culprit in the tile spacing issue. The tile setter did not do the design. The ''tile store'' and consumer is the culprit on that. They didn't get input from someone experienced in installations during the product selection. You can't have zero connection to a real world installation and do tile design. Which is what happened here.

The waterproofing issue is all on the installer. And builder.

Wow, no offense, but no, that is not right. It looks very amateurish. The way the tile was laid out, and subsequently cut, you can tell it was not thought out ahead of time to ensure the cuts would be sized correctly. Also, the bands of the decorative tile are too small to have any impact. AND they should have been centered on the alcove and installed inside the alcove.

@Deb T

I keep hearing references to 18" floor tile which makes me uneasy.

Not INSIDE the shower I hope. Shower floor you want traction to avoid slips. More grout lines = better traction. Not saying necessarily 1" squares, but not huge tiles either. Maybe more of the 2" squares shown in the pic? If so, those should be fine. I just don't trust the tile installer and given some of the decisions I would feel remiss if I didn't broach this subject (even if false alarm). Floor tile that is suitable for a kitchen, living room or foyer (essentially dry areas) isn't necessarily suitable for inside a shower. You want a high friction coefficient for wet areas.

If there is a complete tear out -- which may need to be the case -- would consider a trough drain rather than a circular drain. Trough drain = gentle width-wide slope from bench to opposite wall (where trough drain is located). Circular drain = slight slope towards drain all around and involves numerous cuts. Not as clean of a look and IMO more likely to result in a slip -- not necessarily a big issue now but as get older. The type of drain, pros and cons of each, should have been discussed with you by GC.

The 18" floor tile is only on the seat area of bench. The floor of the shower is the same 3"x3" that is on the window wall. Never thought about trough drain. Is it too late for that?

@printesa, an installer that works for a contractor should have had a conversation with him about layout etc. in the end it comes down to the contractor and homeowner. They should have gone over layout. Every step along the way I tell my clients exactly what I'm doing and why. From the framing to the type of caulk/silicone I'm using.

Deb, too late for that, that needs to be planned from start. You want a smaller tile on the shower floor so the water drains right. You should check that out on your own, put a level on the shower floor and make sure there is proper pitch to the center of the drain.

Trough drain involves plumbing. Circular drain typically centered. Trough drain typically along the wall with the shower head. So changing would involve plumbing and likely busting up part of the foundation (sounds more complicated than it is, fairly common converting a tub to a shower).

IF contractor has to bust out most everything because of screw ups, then it is doable but expect an upcharge for the plumbing, new drain, etc. Otherwise likely cost prohibitive/not worth the cost. Worth talking to GC about to see cost.

I would make them do it right. You don't want to have to live with it and hate it more every day. Even if it costs you way more. As for the bench....put a nice piece of marble or granite on top for the seat.....solid!

A respectable tile installer should know better that the way those tiles are aligned is not the way to go. Of course, if they just want to install the tiles, regardless of what they would look in the end, you get what's there now. Unfortunately, mediocrity seems to prevail lately in almost every area

If you use a bone colored grout between the large tiles and the decorative tile band, I think you'll lose the visual line that defines the band at those areas where light tile meets light tile. You may have to squint a bit at the photo to see what it might look like at a distance.

I don't KNOW who did the design plan or if the installer worked directly for the GC or for a tile contractor.

My father, in his day, was the top tile contractor in South Mississippi . He was sought out by people such as Dizzy Dean, Bobby Chain, the Tatums, Bennett York and handled all the tile and marble work for several top home builders. (other than possibly Sophie, most posters don't recognize these names; they were movers and shakers ).

For a new construction job like this, issues such as type of drain should have been raised early enough to get correct plumbing.

Customers would visit our showroom to pick out colors, finishes, sizes, decorative tiles, and countertops. When the carpenters had framed in and the rough plumbing had been done, he would measure to order the tile. If the chosen tile was not suitable because size would result in small cuts, he would recommend alternate sizes. Because he knew their taste, the technical requirements and tile availability, he could offer excellent advice. He was selling service and skill, not simply a product.

Typically, he had 3-5 tile crews. Of course, the tile setters had different skill levels. But he would pair a highly skilled tile setter with a less experienced one, so each job had a person with high design skills. And he personally went to each job the start of each day the tile laying began to ensure it was designed right without small cuts.

This job, with two baths, should have had two tile setters -- a master tile setter and an apprentice. The master should have gotten the apprentice started with the correct pattern and periodically checked on him while personally working the other bath.

If the tile installer works directly for the GC, the blame is equal...the GC for putting an inexperienced person on the job, the installer for not recognizing his limitations and seeking advice.

If the installer works for a tile contractor then the fault lies there. He should not have been sent out by himself.


Mostly, in the big picture the design issues revolve around the process and an installer who was not experienced enough to stop and resolve the issue instead of proceeding full steam ahead.

Thank you Creative Tile, you pointed out exactly what my concerns are. Also from a design standpoint, I don't care for the way the stripes of tile trim in your first photo line up with (or I should say, the way they don't line up with) the niche. It would have looked really cool if it the top of the first stripe lined up with the top of the niche and if the bottom of the bottom stripe lined up with the bottom of the niche. As far as the shower seat, it would look so much more aesthetically pleasing if you carried the small tile all the way down (see picture). Like Creative Tile pointed out, your biggest concern right now is that the water proofing was done incorrectly. I wouldn't let that tiler finish the job. If I were you, I'd have the work inspected by another reputable tiler. I'm sorry, I feel bad for you.

When does the grout go in? Be sure to post pictures.

I plan on telling the contractor to stop tile work until we can meet at the house and discuss all of these things.

I will be speaking with the contractor in an hour or so. How do I frame the conversation? There are 2 issues - the hydroban in master [and if it was done in guest bath] and the tile layout in guest bath. I don't want to say "I posted on a web forum and many people said things were done wrong".

One more note - the pricing sheet for the construction shows a shower pan for the master shower. Does that eliminate the need to have the shower floor done with hydro bann?

Well I guess you get say you don't like the way the tile was laid out and that you're concerned that it wasn't waterproofed correctly because you can see the bench wasn't taped which made you wonder whether everything else was waterproofed correctly. Good luck. I generally handle quite a lot myself with contractors, but sometimes I bring in my husband for backup. Don't be mean but don't be a softie either.

Sometimes if you use the right kind of pan you don't need to mud under the pan, but you still have to seal around the rim.

All I know is the pan was 40sq ft and cost $1000.
:o(

DebT - in your nicest tone of voice, tell the contractor: "you wouldn't mind if I took some pictures just in case there is a problem in the future with water damage from improperly installed waterproofing :-)." And re tiling job, tell him YOU think it looks amateurish. And have those "big girl" pants ready!!

You tell them that it is totally unacceptable, that you want it corrected at their expense. Better yet, ask for a refund then do some research and reviews on reputable tile companies and contractors. I'd be tempted to report all parties to the Better Business Bureau. I recently had our master bath redone. I went to the big box stores and the fancy tile stores but didn't get a sense of commitment on their part. Then I remembered the local tile shop that did all the tile in a house we built. I couldn't have been happier. They've been in business over sixty years. Obviously they know what they are doing.

Following this as we are getting ready to redo our master. I love the (master) tile on the window wall.

The 3"x3" tiles on window wall in master is AmericanOlean Kendal Slate in Easdale.

"We want you to be happy. We will revisit the guest bath tile installation. The shower was flood tested and was inspected and passed. The shower pan is hydro ban. They do use fabric along the bottom. We do not typically do all surfaces of shower in hydro ban"
We will be replacing the surface of the bench with 18"x18" tiles that are the same as the 3"x3". And with no cuts...
Will post follow up...

Compare this to what you have. Look past the colors to the pattern and how everything looks lined up and professional.

"We do not typically do all surfaces of shower in hydro ban" Then what is done to waterproof other surfaces as cement board is not waterproof?

Please keep us posted.

I know you already talked to your tiler but I wouldn't shy away from telling him that you were concerned and posted pictures on houzz.com. You got some great info and advice from some professional tile contractors and they need to know that other professionals think they're cutting corners and doing shoddy work. Houzz is very well known and a great resource, using it shows you're a savvy homeowner. I'm glad they plan to fix it and "make you happy".