Container-grown plants require more fertilizer more often than if grown int he ground.

Post some images so that it's easier for us to guess what's what.

Perhaps I should not have posted on this forum. I cannot take pictures because I do not have a camera now. I do not like to spray anything poisonous because of my own animals particularly , I prefer to maintain a more or less natural atmosphere. to accommodate the bees and natural enemies of the bad insects. Makes sense to remove all diseased leaves.. I use really large containers and good potting soil plus some horse manure on the very bottom of the container. I am not a professional gardener only someone who loves to dabble in the soil,. Thanks for any intended help, and by the way, I messed up with my rose post. Barb

There are many sprays to address various problems that are relatively harmless to the environment, although Fertilome, which their website tells me is chlorathonil, is not one of those. So that's an odd choice if your main goal is to not have negative impact on the wildlife around you (although chlorathonil will not really hurt birds).

But if you're not willing to use any intervention at all, then all you can do is cut off dying foliage and just see what happens and hope for the best. Good luck.

Poisonous ? To what ?

There are a lot of natural fruits and vegetables that are poisonous to humans but not to other species.

There are organic sprays that are harmless to humans and the environment. Take Neem Oil spray as an example.

Sey

I don't spray anything and harvest good veggies. Of course that doesn't mean I won't get a disease that will decimate my garden, in fact, not spraying increases my chance for problems.

In a no 'cide garden, paying extra attention is important. With tomatoes, for me it means inspecting every yellow or brown spot. It also means paying attention to the weather. If you are in a dry area, or experiencing drought-type conditions, your chances of fungi diseases drop somewhat. However, while humidity brings conditions that fungi and diseases need to grow, rain helps keep leaves clean and spores washed off.

So, when you inspect your plants, pay attention to what is touching the floor of the garden If you overhead water, you might be keeping leaves clean, but you are also splashing spores back up onto lower leaves. When the humidity starts to rise, consider removing most - to - all your leaves that are growing, or hanging, a few inches from the ground.

Different varieties are more susceptible than others. The heirloom varieties that I prefer get diseases quite readily. Some hybrids will grow right next to a diseased heirloom and not show any signs. However, it can carry the spores and be a source of contamination.

So, if you don't want to spray, first... pay close attention to your plants. Learn what conditions promote fungi and diseases. Learn the resistance factor of your varieties. Be prepared to prune anything resembling symptoms of disease.

And probably most important... adjust your expectations accordingly. What is more important to you? Your principles surrounding your decision to not use sprays, or an increased chance of a successful crop? Understand that a decision to not use 'cides might mean a failed crop - of course it can happen even with such products, but it's all about managing and living with the results.

Tolerance is a term applied to garden problems. What is your tolerance for pests? For disease? For blemished fruits? For synthetics? Etc...

Understanding your own tolerance for potential problems, and adjusting expectations, are important considerations for every gardener. It's more so if you wish to grow 'cide free.

Paying attention is always important in a backyard garden, regardless of philosophy. I'll use Bt, B. subtilis, neem, milk, K bicarb, capsaicin, garlic, neem and copper carefully, etc., but I'd rather catch a problem early and deal with it in the way that has the least possible impact if I can.

It's not either-or. I tolerate a sustainable level of bug activity, both beneficial and pest, just fine and have actually placed plants that nurture and attract predatory bugs and pollinators among my vegetables to encourage a natural balance in the garden. But if a problem gets out of hand, especially one that's hard for humans to have any control over, as it did with the slug explosion earlier this year, I have more options than someone who won't use any interventions and fewer options than those who are willing to use more toxic interventions. In my case, I wasn't willing to tolerate complete destruction of all my young plants, but I wasn't willing to use metaldehyde. I found unsurprisingly that home remedies like coffee and eggshells were useless, so I tried iron phosphate slug bait, which worked well. The birds and chipmunks that were eating it are still alive and thriving, and even the ants are just as numerous and busy as ever, so it seems nobody was hurt other than the excess slugs. There are still slugs around--I see the damage, but it's normal levels and not the apocalyptic defoliation that had been happening earlier--so it's not as though the option to use "a chemical" was some kind of nuclear option that left the ecosystem a smoking wasteland. On the other hand, I caught an aphid infestation early on a few plants. Aphids are much easier to control than slugs. I dealt with them by quickly washing them off the few shoots they'd colonized with strong squirts from a simple bottle of water. I'm fairly confident that there are plenty of predatory bugs around to deal with any stragglers, and those may be the reason why the problem was relatively contained in the first place. I'd rather do something like that that than use neem or DE, which can harm the beneficials that I've taken great pains to attract to the garden. BUT If I were in an area with serious aphid-borne disease problems, and aphids, etc. posed a good chance of losing my crop to a virus, my calculations would be different.

Boundaries are different for everyone, but there are many different ways to be ethical and responsible--and principled--about gardening without having to give up all options or flexibility.

Nope, tolerance is not either/or. It's a set of sliding scales. If you have zero tolerance for any form of pest or disease control products, then your tolerance for those problems better be quite high.

I use a pair of scissors for slugs. That's as far as I go for pest control. Usually it's just my fingers, but I hate the feel of slugs and caterpillars lol... scissors do quite well for those.

I do use insect barrier for prevention, but I personally don't even use DE, neem oil, nor insecticidal soaps.

I have aphids, but they are kept well in check by the many varieties of Lady, and Soldier Beetles. I just ignore aphids entirely (okay, not always true. The other day I saw a small colony on the tip of a tomato leaf. I squished them.) In fact, except for the flea beetles on my potatoes and eggplant, I see far more beneficials than pests... including aphids.

So, yep, tolerance is not either/or... and it is closely tied to one's philosophy.

I will say that if it came down to 'having' to use a measure beyond what I personally am comfortable with to get a harvest, I might just stop growing that crop for one or more seasons. To me, that choice is a more reasonable option. To someone else, it's not an option at all.

"So, yep, tolerance is not either/or... and it is closely tied to one's philosophy."

Agree but can I take it one step further? You also have to tie your expectations for success to that philosophy. Especially with tomato plants as they chronically suffer from wide-spread, air borne, fungus and bacterial diseases that are almost impossible to avoid.

If zero intervention of any kind is the philosophy then expectations for success would have to be just as low. So low that why would one even worry enough to ask about "some yellow leaves"? If that is a concern then it is time to give up on even trying to grow tomato plants since there is absolutely nothing that can be done for the plant other than strip off the leaves as you walk past so you don't have to worry about them any more..

But when there are so many reasonable alternatives, things that easily allow one to safely balance their conflicting goals, why go to such extremes?

Dave

PS: a salt shaker works well for slugs ;-)

I'm not squeamish and I can pick slugs off by hand just fine, but I don't think you guys understand how many slugs we were dealing with around here. If I'd salted them all, the garden would be scorched earth in which nothing would grow until next year! Also, slugs do lot of their damage while one is asleep, and the worst damage was actually done by myriad tiny slugs < 1 cm long that were easy to miss, not the big ones that are easy to see and get rid of.

One application of iron phosphate bait around the borders of the beds after rain one evening, and the slug problem became totally manageable practically overnight.

Yes, I do agree, as we've all said in different ways, expectations MUST be tied to philosophy and tolerance. The wonderful thing about exploring these issues, and hearing from gardeners of many stripes, is that we can leave behind the myths, and learn from one another. I am often inspired to take a course of action that fits into my willingness of intervention.

I've heard that salt works well. And although I'm not sure about me personally using salt in the garden, it makes sense to preseason the slugscargo before cooking. Disclaimer... Do not try this at home, I'm not sure you can actually eat slugs lol...

Wild snails and slugs are likely to carry parasites. So if you're going to eat them, cook them thoroughly. Though I doubt run of the mill garden gastropods are worth eating. More importantly, you should wash your hands after handling them.

Having been a part of the organic feelings about roses, I accepted a long time ago the fact that it was impossible to find a rose that was going to have blemish-free beautiful blooms. Likewise, although I love the Cherokee Purple tomatoes, I know they also are not going to have their troubles also. I just want to be one of those gardeners who can't walk out to the garden without stopping to pull a weed, one who loves to sit in a chair and watch the hummers fight over their food source, watch the woodpeckers keep up their steady drumming for food and stuff like that. I have no part over gardeners bragging about their disease free products. I have outgrown that. I just love to enjoy the time and thank God for another beautiful day, as I know they will be limited by the passage of time.Thanks for the discussion. Barb