Stunning all around.

Trying to lock down window and door choices now for my Sonoma county Design Review (where a county official gets to decide whether they will approve the wall and roof colors my client (wife) has picked...)

We've gotten quotes for Marvin Ultra Clad, Kolbe & Kolbe VistaLuxe, and Weathershield Contemporary windows. Window prices are essentially the same (the Weathershield is a bit less). The K&K VistaLuxe windows are likely winners, based mostly on looks; their casements look really clean and trim.

The big question is, as expected, which "big door" to buy? 20' wide x 8' tall opening, 3 panels, pocketed one side. All prices delivered and glazed, but not installed. Fleetwood 3070 is about $21K, Reynaers CP 130 $27K, Kolbe Ultra $33K, Euro-Wall was $52K! Fleetwood is a roller, the other 3 are lift and slide (which I'd prefer). Also got a $10K quote for installing the Reynaers, haven't gotten installation pricing on the others.

Couple of questions:

- Do these prices seem right to you? I was originally planning about $1K per linear foot for an 8 foot slider, but with installation I'm well over $1,700 for all of the L&S doors, and even the Fleetwood will be at least $1,200/lf

- Is $10K for installation a fair number?

- What would you choose? Not a "money is no object" project, unfortunately - but want to make the best long term decision,

Last question:

Have just been contacted by a rep who has Unilux and Pacific Architectural Millwork lift and slides. Don't want to waste anyone's time; is it worth asking them to quote, and where do these folks fit on the quality spectrum?

As always, thanks in advance for the help.

Pacific Arch Millwork came in at $24K delivered and glazed but not installed. Time to find out how much the cost of installation varies.

Rob Hunt send us a message thru houzz and we can help you.

Or Give us a call @ 702-643-5700

We can gladly propose one of our doors for you.

Rob Hunt, What did you end up doing?

I went with the Kolbe & Kolbe VistaLuxe casements and the Reynaers 20' x 8' lift and slide. It's a fabulous door, great environmentals, and because it's assembled/fabricated in Arizona it ended up being about half the cost of the Unilux (also an awesome product). Still researching patio/exterior doors that are compliant with California's Woodlands-Urban Interface requirements.

Glad you checked them out! Show us a picture And please let us know what profile/model of door it was if you know.

Thank you to Germain for starting this thread! I have been driving myself nuts on making a choice - I also have my spreadsheets. Being in the "trades" I thought my design/construction knowledge would help on our own project....but I think it made it worse! We are in the midst of a remod in Michigan and there are 5 doorwalls with the largest 210" in an OXO and the other doowalls are 120" in mainly OX. We were about to pull the trigger on Fleetwood and then I found this thread, and would appreciate any input. We priced out with their "budget" program and will install with our glass company and with that, their pricing was very competitive. At first we had looked at lift and slides with wood interior, but did not like that the stiles/framing was so wide and the cost was much more. I did not even think about lift and slide when we decided to go with aluminum...does anyone know if the cost is much more and/or if I should even second guess going with fleetwood. Lastly, has anyone used Phantom screens or have recommendations for retractable screens. Thanks!

snowairg - you mentioned that you used Western for windows...did you use them for any sliding doors? Anyone that has any input on the following, please give me your thoughts: Received quote from Fleetwood and Western for 3 doorwalls. Using a 210" OXO as a comparison, Fleetwood was $7100 and Western was $9600. I then Spoke with the Western rep and they quoted me their 7650 series which has U value of .3 and Fleetwood is .44. They said that they have a 600 series which has a .38 factor, still better then fleetwood, and the price in this series is about same as Fleetwood. I have heard good things about Fleetwood and that was what I was leaning too, but now not quite sure.

Daryl,

I used Arcadia aluminum windows with phantom screens in the perimeter of the loggia. The loggia is right under the balcony and measures approximately 800 sq feet. The Arcadia windows are great but the service during installation was beyond horrible. The phantom screens are great too.

Daryl that seems very inexpensive for an almost 20’ Door by Fleetwood and Western. Are they including freight costs. Something seems amiss I would double check the quote and review it with the rep thoroughly. If it is the price you say then you should jump on either option. I would prefer Fleetwood over Western.

Yes and?

Your right, sorry QWD, too early in the am.....................

Thanks for all the input! Shipping costs are FOB and about the same between the two suppliers for all three units. The install will be handled by a contractor that I use for many of our other projects, so the cost is also the same. One difference is lead time, 4-5 for Western and twice that by Fleetwood.The personal service by the local supplier for Western has been great and Fleetwood has also turned around quotes fast and patient as we narrowed down configuration and dimensions.

Millworkman - That is fantastic that you are active on so many different conversations here on HOUZZ

We are doing a remodel also, and I was quoted $6,472 for a 191.5" x 80" OXXO Western 600 series aluminum sliding glass door. The install price is an additional $1,550. We were also quoted $2,210 for the same series Western door in an XO configuration which is 72"x81". These are a regular sliding glass doors that are on rollers. We are in a hot humid climate. Does anyone know how air-tight this door is? Does a lift and slide allow less air infiltration?

Lift and slide is one of the best systems for air

Germain do you have any updates? How do you like your windows? I’d love to connect with you as I’m about to choose window for a new home also in NJ (I actually posted a question on the forum).Your findings would be very helpful.

Germain, I remember in one of your posts you offered to email your window research spreadsheet would you still be willing. Jalpin13@gmail.com

Following. Great post

Would really love your window spreadsheet too if you can share!

Does anyone have experience with Styline windows and doors? a competitor to Fleetwood and made in Soutgern Cslifornia.

If you are talking about Milgard "Styleline", they are nothing alike. Commercial grade aluminum versus Milgard's economy vinyl line.

East Bay 10, Styline is a aluminum narrow sightline, modern minimalist look window & door mfr similar to a Fleetwood, Western, etc. That being said I had never heard of them before looking them up and cannot speak of them other than that.

On the same boat. Looking for large sliding doors. This thread helped me to make my final decision. I have had Fleetwood sliding, pocket, corner doors installed in my home 14 years ago and I have been very happy since. For the past few years, We have installed few European lift and slides, pocket, wood doors on our projects for clients. They are really good and sturdy but they look bulky for modern homes, unless you use very large panels. But I am limited in height. That is why I am going back to Alum sliders. I have a quote from Fleetwood which is not bad but I was wondering if there has been better options in the market since then. But I guess not, going true this thread.

What height are you looking for? Euro-wall has some very large heights and makes a nice lift & slide and a multi-slide. You can find some videos on youtube with more info.

I would also love your spreadsheet if you are able to share. Thank you!

@G J I saw your offer to share info on Western. but it looks like you have messages disabled. If you're still willing, can you please message me?

@Dary’S Yes, we bought sliding doors from Western Windows - they were Series 600 Double Sliding Doors XO + screens 10.5' wide and 7' tall for ~$3K each. We also had a custom Series 600 Double Sliding Window made 9.5' wide and 45" tall for ~$1900.

Thank you Germain Wong and Rob Hunt for starting this feed. I was began my search for what windows and doors to specify for a new modern project in Newport Beach, CA. and this was very helpful. I used Fleetwood in my Napa, CA. project 7 years ago, and they turned out beautifully

https://www.areasid.com/residential?pgid=k8p2wwfj1-891b4e94-9e81-4ed9-840a-d31de54ea84b

Does anyone know if Germain Wong ever shared photos of her finished home?

I can help you answer your questions about Fleetwood call me fleetwoodrepair.com Karl Krumme

I am the Sliding Door Guru 7605868981

Hello everyone, thank you for this thread! So glad I found it. It's been about 5.5 years since it started & I would love to hear how everyone is liking their chosen product thus far. What did you end up going with? Any regrets? How long have you had it for? What's your experience with repairs & warranty (if any)? 

Would love to hear your thoughts & any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have a W14ftxH11ft opening that I wanted to install Fleetwood sliders into. Living in Southern California, I was pretty much led to believe they're the only ones who could handle this size, since that is all I see anymore in large sizes around here. But after reading this thread turns out there are tons of choices. However, I have not seen/read on here anyone installing anything higher than 9ft, if I'm not mistaken. Is 11ft ridiculously tall? Is it better & more economical to have some fixed panels above & go with 8-9ft sliders below? Or is 11ft perfectly fine & worth it if I have the height? It's a very modern house so I'm only looking for very low profile aluminum frames. Thank you in advance!

Alexandra E., Hello! I've sold Fleetwood, Western, Jeld Wen, WeatherShield, and Awake products. Paring the list down to thermally broken aluminum products, let's focus on Fleetwood, Western, and Awake. Right now, Fleetwood is suffering from an incredibly long lead time, of between 38-52 weeks, depending on the series you order, I've been told. Western is at 6 weeks, Awake, depending on size of job, is 12-14 weeks. All 3 offer narrow site line multi slide doors, though the Fleetwood Edge series is a trainwreck. Awake has an almost full line-up of narrow siteline products, ranging from multi slide doors to swing doors to fixed multiple lite windows using their T-Bar offering. Western currently has only the 300 Series door systems that offer a narrow site line multi slide door. Of these 3 manufacturers, Awake has the thinnest profile at 3/4", Fleetwood Edge is at 1", and the 300 Series by Western comes in at 1-1/8". Cost to consumer, from lowest to highest would go; Western, Awake, Fleetwood.

Heights - 132" is easily done by all 3 (Western, Awake, Fleetwood). Panel size on multi slide doors is constrained by the glass manufacturer they are supplied by. Western and Fleetwood utilize Cardinal 366 Series glass, which is held in size to a max width of 94" and a max height of 144". A general rule of thumb is standard glazing goes up to 70 square feet. Beyond that, you move into jumbo glass. Awake and Fleetwood can go up to 100 square feet in their panel size for multi slide doors. I believe Western is held at 70 square feet. For sills, all three offer a flush and thinline/t-sill, where the space between the tracks can be infilled with tile or natural stone - DO NOT BRING wood to within 24" of a thinline or t-sill as you can suffer water damage to your wood floor. Carpet is not a good idea too, as your door will never seal (had a client do this, then called me at 11pm to tell me he's suffering from a draft). Awake and Fleetwood can go up to 180", possibly even 192", depending on the width of the panel. Western is capped at 144" height.

Full height or transom windows? You'll pay the same when it's all said and done. To carry transom windows over a multi slide door system, you'll need steel (to keep a narrow profile) or wood (to keep costs down) above the multi slide door system, that runs the entire length of the frame (this would include pockets). What I've done in the past for clients who wanted transoms above their multi slide door is I take a 2" x 5" tube steel, lay it on it's side, then run upllift legs that tie into the header or trusses that run above both systems, to maintain the integrity of the multi slide door frame and preventing any sagging. In one instance, I had to tie another 2"x5" run of tube steel 90° of the other to help provide the strength needed for wind deflection to a wind speed of 72 mph. *it was a 480" daylight opening, double pocket Western 600 series door, with 60" awning windows at the end, and fixed windows between, that made up the transom.

Hope this information has helped you! Best of luck with your decision and build.

hi Rob thats an incredibe resource of information! we live los angeles and have a home with major glazing and several exterior sliders that are failing with the now new climate here :( Wondering if it would be possible to consult with you on best options Are you in Ca? is it possible to contact you ? Thanks so much Lorraine

Robert B, thank you so much for your very informative response. 

We did explore many different possibilities & brands with many, many suppliers/dealers. At the end, Fleetwood seemed like the better choice for us. They were able to accommodate the aesthetic we were going for & at a better price than the competition. Not to mention, we were able to actually visit the headquarters in Corona & touch/play with every possible door & window they make. Other brands were not as accessible & harder to find, in vast varieties, in dealer showrooms.

We actually decided to go with H120" as H132" just seemed excessive. We also wanted the least amount of panels & still stay within the 70 sqft per panel limit before going into jumbo size, so that seemed like the best route to go. 2 panels, 7ftx10ft each, in the 3000 series. We didn't want to take any chances with the flush sills & are ok with the low profile sills the 3000 series provides. These sliders are going into a bedroom so a large (door less) opening & heavy foot traffic was not a priority as much as more light & expansive views. Any flooring material limitations with the low profile 3000 series sills?

As far as long lead times from Fleetwood, that has already changed. Their lead times are about 8-10 weeks now.

Installation, is another topic! If you know any great installers in SoCal, who are experienced with Fleetwood, I would really appreciate some recommendations. 

Thanks again!

Alexandra, the 3000 series is their mid tier patio door system, and the 1.5" water leg is a good sill, though you may want to consider depressing your slab at those openings so that your interior floor finish can flush to the top of the 1.5" water leg. The flush sill offered by Fleetwood would include a sill pan that goes underneath the sill, above the slab, to channel water away from the interior space. Without that sill pan, you would most likely suffer water intrusion into the home, but with the pan its a bullet proof system. Fleetwood manufactures to tight tolerances, so if your installer puts a slight bow to in the jamb, away from the door panel, you may suffer ease of operation throwing the arch type lock assembly. I personally have a 3070 XX door system on my home, and as you use it more, the slide and locking will perform better.

No flooring limitations with the flush sill, other than the finish floor thickness driving exactly where the flush sill would live. If your flooring is less than 1" (3/4" sill, 1/8" sill pan, plus an additional 1/8" for adhesive/sealant), you'd want to depress the slab. Natural stone, and other floor finishes that would rise above the 1" flush sill height would increase shim height underneath the sill, where a reputable installer would float lightweight to dimish the gap between bottom of sill and top of slab. The thinline, or pencil, sill, is a different beast entirely. With that sill, tile or stone would finish between the tracks, meaning there would be no sill pan as water and air infiltration would be expected to a certain extent with that sill. It provides a beautiful inside/out flow and finish. On a second floor application, I would strongly recommend bring water proofing into the interior space 72" or 6 feet, to help ensure you don't suffer water damage. Do not bring carpet or wood flooring into the thinline sill, as the carpet won't allow the door to seal, and wood would probably swell and be ruined by water intrusion.

Not sure about installers in SoCal, so can't really help you out there. Hard to imagine you wouldn't have several window/door installation companies that are up to the task. SoCal is Fleetwood's bread and butter, and have been selling in that market for 60 years.

I imagine since Fleetwood moved on from Mark McCoy, things have only gotten better at the company. There was a rumor for quite some time that the company was being floated as being for sale, and many big time players were lining up to potentially purchase and absorb Fleetwood (Pella, Andersen, Western/PGTi were the companies I heard the most often in the rumor mill).

LusciousLola - I'm in Las Vegas, so not far away at all. How is the glazing failing? I know in CA, all outbound lites are required to be tempered. If the spacer is failing, my question would be, how long ago did you buy the windows or doors? The major glass manufacturers offer a 10 year warranty on defects, so you may fall into that. If you're outside of the 10 years warranty period, you may need to buy new glass, which won't be cheap. Last year the glass industry have substantial price increases. One tip I would like to provide is; all southern or west facing windows, opt for argon fill. Any windows or doors that face east or the north, don't pay the extra for argon fill. Why? Dirty little secret is, argon escapes in 3-5 years time, so you lose that benefit.

Fleetwood products are very impressive but the recent yelp reviews scare me. Is the EX-CEO and Fleetwood engaged in a lawsuit against each other as well?

Robert B - Do you happen to have any early intel on the reliability of Awake's products? I'm considering them for a remodel that I'll start in 3-4 months. They look amazing, but I'm just a little scared that it's only a 2yr old company. The leadership team has a great record from western, but their new designs haven't been out there that long. Would love any intel you or others have on early reliability. Thanks!

@Robert B Can you elaborate on the Fleetwood Edge series being a trainwreck? I am strongly considering them, so your comment is concerning and I'd like to learn more.

WeatherShield has a new Vue Collection. So far I am impressed. Matt Risinger did a video on it not long ago on his popular Youtube channel. The Build Show. Check them out. Fleetwood is overpriced, there are comparable options for better price points/better value out there.

@QWD-VA What would you recommend to achieve a look comparable to the Fleetwood Edge product? And my comparison of pricing for more typical products between Fleetwood, Awake, and Western suggests the pricing is very similar.

I would look at Western like you mention, Arcadia and possibly Solar Innovations.

@millworkman Which Western product offers the look of Edge, with true floor to ceiling glass and such narrow disruptions between panels of glass? Arcadia doesn't support the sizes I need, unfortunately. I will look into Solar Innovations.

LA Cantina V2 bifold has a pretty expansive opening as well

@Robert B @TXGuy can you share more about the Edge Series, did you go ahead with the purchase. I am strongly considering them also. Any more details would be very helpful. Thanks!

Jess, not sure if it helps, but we were considering all of these and ended up going with Awake. We're really happy so far - the windows are beautiful and Awake was great to work with given we had a few tricky windows / doors / sliders to put together. We aren't yet done with our project so don't know how they'll stand up to a lot of use, but they seem to be built incredibly well and they look great. We're really happy. Good luck!

@Jess Myra I am happy to try to answer questions based on what I've learned and seen. They are currently spec'd as the preferred window for my project, and the builder is working on pricing right now. When that's done, I'll have a better idea of whether I'll be moving forward with them -- I expect the windows themselves and the installation to be a lot more expensive than something like Western, Awake, or even other Fleetwood products.

Thanks. I would be curious if you got 'hands on' with any sliding doors as part of your decision making? I saw two today IRL that were newly installed. The sliding mechanism was turbulent at best. I was told they were awaiting adjustment/a new part. Understanding other's experiences with a final "finished install" would be incredibly helpful. Also, any visibility in the approx product cost per sq ft (not install). At the price points I saw, I would expect them to operate flawlessly. Many thanks!

@Jess Myra Yes, I did. I was able to use some 14' tall sliders at a house under construction. I don't recall the width, sorry. They worked amazingly smoothly...much easier to manipulate than Western sliders in a showroom. Even with such huge panels, you could literally slide them with one finger. It was very impressive. Someone from my team that was with me when we saw the Edge sliders was able to use Awake sliders in a showroom and reported that they required considerably more force to operate. I do not yet have pricing on the Edge, but I was told it is 25-30% more than comparable 3 Series or Gen 4 products. I am also waiting on pricing on installation, but I've been told to expect around 25% of the cost of the windows. Note that large sizes will have extra costs associated with jumbo glass.

As always it depends on where you are in the country, what performance values you need and all that. Comparable products to Fleetwood edge are Vitrosca, SkyFrame, Yawal Moreview, Panda TS.XO, - Western has alot of issues, Awake is just the old Western guys out on their own now. The best sliding doors on the market are lift and slide doors but the problem is they cant be as narrow as people want them to be. If you have what I call ”fck u” money then look to Brombal’s levitating door - nothing like it on the market. It levitates on magnets like those bullet trains in Asia. or Panoramah! has silly products like no other.