OMG! I guess first time buyers who want that center city are in a tough spot. That kitchen is teeny, and with the W/D right there in it???

Pal, I see this -

• Tax Year:
  2016
• Total Assessment:
  273300.00

And the asking price is $589,999. How 'off' are the tax assessments from the home's value, as a rule?

I think the assessment is based on "improvements" so the 12' wide patch of dirt would be worth $300,000 without the house on it? Or something like that. They used to be even more different...

The problem comes when there is a lot like this and the house is either unsalvageable or there is not house on the lot. $273K wouldn't get you very far here, so any house built on the lot would have to be significantly more expensive and then it would have to be bigger, which means taller. So there are these tall skinny expensive behemoths built as infills.

In my neighborhood, which does not have the cache of Rittenhouse Square (although neither does the area where this house is in reality), entry level is probably around $400K, but the newest houses in the neighborhood are $2M and loom over the others. Why? because they were starting from a teardown, and with new construction people want parking, then they need to be bigger, then they need to have elevators etc. and so on. Somebody bought them but if I had that kind of money for a house it would not be spent here. The conventional wisdom is that these people must be New Yorkers, who think this is cheap, but is there an endless pool of Manhattanites moving here and commuting? I dunno.

The listing photos of the place don't do it any justice-- esp first flr and basement, by not providing a perspective of the space.

Too bad basement stairs couldn't have been flipped so stair landing was to the right of the front door.

Also, they s/h used glass panels for bannister to open it up even more.

I wonder if washer & dryer could switch places w/refrigerator?

For what it's worth, these houses are extremely hard to photograph.

Remember the outside dimensions of this house are 16 feet, meaning the inside is 15' wide at the widest. The photographer is squeezed in the corner, I'm pretty sure. Some of these lots are 12'

Did you see the acreage? 0.01 acre, one-onehundred of an acre.

I would have probably tried something completely different with the kitchen, but I bet they forgot about the washer and dryer or how things would open, or moved it from a bathroom at the last minute.

I wonder if the tax assessment was from before the remodel was done. It's really awkwardly finished in some places. Too bad.

palimpsest

For what it's worth, these houses are extremely hard to photograph.

Remember the outside dimensions of this house are 16 feet, meaning
the inside is 15' wide at the widest. The photographer is squeezed in
the corner, I'm pretty sure. Some of these lots are 12'

**********************************************************************

Sigh, my old hse is 17ft wide, so quite familiar w/narrow rooms..

Had a grandma & aunt who yrs back lived in a Pullman townhse--aka a workers' home.

These would have been 2 flats.

The 3 windows between the porches -2 were for LR and other window was in a bdrm.

For those not familiar w/this area on the southside of Chicago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman,_Chicago

http://www.pullmanil.org/

Oh, I'm not saying you aren't familiar with narrow houses. But since the rooms are narrow and shallow it's hard to get an overall view. Some agents use the stretchy camera, and then people who look at it say the pictures gave a distorted view or exaggerated the size of the rooms.
I think a lot of people who are not familiar with old urban housing have a hard time wrapping their head around something only 12-16 feet wide with absolutely no windows except front and back.

I was getting input on a project once and I said the house is 12 feet wide and takes up the entire width of the lot. For a while I was getting suggestions about adding a few feet maybe with a cantilever, could I add windows to the sides, and so forth and finally someone said You mean the entire house and the entire lot are only 12 feet wide? You are kidding! It was just so foreign. I'd never seen that til I moved here either. not these widths.

There's nothing rational here, it's just the "greater fool" theory in action. As long as people keep buying, the house is worth the price, because a thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

At some point, the game will stop, and prices will fall hard, perhaps taking the economy down again. People never learn. If you could pinpoint the top ahead of the crash, you'd soon be posting from your own private island.

I hope that landing coming upstairs is bigger than it looks! I'd hurt myself there. Going down would be OK 'cause I can pivot on my right leg. Left leg....has some problems.

Lol at that range in that kitchen.

I lived in a 22 foot wide house one time. Outside measurements. That was an awesome house.

What an awkward kitchen. The freezer door will not be able to open very far. The W/D and fridge should be switched at the very least.

Well, not sure they'll get that price. Personally, I'd prefer these:

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Philadelphia/2310-Spruce-St-19103/unit-A/home/40042557

https://www.redfin.com/PA/Philadelphia/608-S-Bambrey-St-19146/home/38807393

I wonder if the stair access in the LR is even code?

Grandfathered in by chance?

Pal, do you every think Philly--or NYC, will ever go underground like in London

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/24/business/going-underground-london-luxury-basements/

Nosoccermom, the inventory is low and moving fast in some neighborhoods. My SO is now a RE agent, and babysat an open house for another agent. The house was closer to the Bambrey Street one you showed and about that price.

There was an offer on the house from someone who never saw it in person. There were two offers after that open house. Listed for a week. Realtor and Redfin tend to list the market here as "cold" but it really depends upon the neighborhood. I will try to keep track of this house and see what happens.

My SO has been trying to find specific properties for two different clients. When things came available, each one of the clients cancelled the first appointment they had to look at the properties. Three or four properties total had offers on them by the time the appointments were rescheduled for a few days later. Hesitate a few days, and it's gone.

The Spruce one you show is a condo in a larger house. Lots of people do not want to be involved in an HOA. I got out of one after 20 years.That condo was a great looking apartment with a 26 foot living room, two fireplaces, and 10 foot ceilings, architecture I could come no where close to affording in a full house, but the negatives in being tied to other people financially started to really outweigh the positives.

Chijim, I do not think we will because of egress requirements and certain "window" requirements first originating way back with tenement laws.

But in general stairs and bathrooms never completely meet code in most of these houses. Ceiling heights do not meet code in some areas. Kitchens often meet the bare minimum codes. Egress does not meet codes. Essentially if the lot is no longer code compliant, the house will not be.

Interesting. I am marginally familiar with the situation. My DD and SIL were in a very good part of Philly (renting) and looked a bit to buy a house in the city. I think whoever did this house did a very good job. Obviously it's a tight fit but that's what it is. (DD and SIL ended up buying outside the city but sent me several links to homes before hand. ) I think it's well done and while I don' t really know prices, there is a lot of wisdom in the theory that people are coming from NYC and this is a steal compared to what you could get in NYC.

It's what the market will bear, and is also at a time when interest rates are historically low. We have 2 DD's who rent in Boston. One pays a premium to rent the top floor of a brownstone in the South End, but it's worth it to her to be near her job and to be able to walk everywhere, although she does have a car. Her sister lives with a roommate in another part of Boston, near the water. Again, convenience and lifestyle make it appealing for her also. Both are talking of buying condo's in the near future, as their older sister did a few years ago. I understand the desire to be close to work, close to all that an urban environment offers. Both have excellent jobs and are where they want to be.

After visiting the South End I looked at real estate, stupidly thinking DH and I could possibly buy a 3 unit brownstone (sell one to the DD's) and rent out the other 2 units in the building. The brownstone DD lives in is valued at 3 million. Her landlord owns about 5 houses on the street.

Compared to NY and Boston it does seem "affordable", but the layout is less than ideal and it has little curb appeal.

The curb appeal of many houses and small streets is pretty negligible here. There are some very picturesque streets, but to a large degree curb appeal is probably at the bottom of many people's lists when it comes to house shopping. Other than trying to keep it relatively neat and tidy looking I don't much care what our house looks like on the outside, and I initially looked at it because I thought it was so ugly I was intrigued.

Ironically some of the areas and houses in Center City that have great curb appeal are still substandard run-down apartments inside.

I'm enchanted with the wording of the listing itself.."true" and "false"..)) So different from here.

They did a very strange job to say the least..even for a flip. But I guess they also aim at certain population..you need to be relatively young and all to do this triple level living. Young, energetic=you can DIY some stuff while you live there, gradually, if it bothers you.

I like the first listing that nosoccermom posted.

The outside can belie what is inside for certain. However, the green space that surrounds a condo is conducive to expanding the living space by providing parks, bike paths and tree-lined streets that make city living more enjoyable. For example:

Our windows look down a really beautiful tree-lined walkway across the street. The street was so picturesque that it was used in the credits of a couple of 1970s 80s Philadelphia based TV shows (when so many of the long street views of Philly showed urban decay). But our house is really nicer and gets more light than those do on the inside, I know this because I made an offer on one of those and looked at every one that came onto the market at the time. We are near a community garden and a block from a pocket park. But our frontage along the block is really not attractive for the most part.

DS just moved out of a Trinity in Philly that wasn't as nice, actually it was downright dismal! It was about the same size but had 1 Bedroom on the 3rd floor, the laundry area and the only bathroom were on the 2nd floor, and the basement kitchen didn't have any windows, the only daylight was from a recessed window well 7' off the floor - so no view either. It had standard renter's appliances and barely enough room for a tiny table and chairs .

Since it was in a narrow courtyard it was always in a shadow. He only had windows in the front because there was another trinity behind him sharing back walls. It was in Northern Liberties which is a hot area of Philly and I think the rent is now $1500 a month - no parking, no yard but it was in a gated complex with a common courtyard.

He was actively looking for to buy but as Pal states the market is hot. He'd make appointments to see properties after work or on the weekend and more than half the time there was already a bid placed before he could get there. It didn't help either that his agent was so busy that she seldom returned calls. He finally found a condo that he really likes but it took about 10 months.

DD and her BF searched for almost 2 years before finding something that they could afford and wasn't in need of a complete rebuild. They found a great row home that was totally redone 10 years ago - it's 18' wide, 10' ceilings, almost 1900 square feet, a rear yard, available on-street parking BUT it's in N. Philly near Temple. Their block is nice, it's quiet and stable. Most of the neighbors have been there for many years and they've told her how happy they are that a young couple bought the house because apparently before that it had been a rental for 4 college guys. Some of the areas around her are sketchy and others dangerous.

My other DS and his wife have finally decided to leave the city after 10 years and like so many others in their age group are moving to the suburbs because of the schools. Unless you can afford private school most of the schools in the city are abysmal. I mentioned this on another thread but there are only 9 librarians for 218 city schools - and those schools are also lacking nurses, guidance counselors, art and music teachers too. Tuition at Friends' Central ( A Quaker school) in Center City is $23,000 to $30,000 for grade school and $35,000 for high school.

Mayor Kenney's initiative to tax soft and sugar drinks was originally touted as utilizing the proceeds to improve Parks and Recreation, expand pre-K and neighborhood schools. If only they had followed though on that and used all the money for schools, parks and recreation. Instead Council is planing on keeping a portion of that money for the fund balance.

There have been several studies published that show millennials and empty nesters are buying properties. And Pal's right too about the increase in New Yorkers moving here for the lower prices - they can ride Amtrak or a bus into Manhattan - although that can get rather tedious on a daily basis. There is also a significant number of New Jerseyians moving into Philly and PA to avoid the high taxes on the Jersey side of the Delaware. The city has also granted 10 year tax abatements for certain areas of the city as a lure to improve those areas.

I'm not a pro but it looks like the demand will continue for a while - especially as long as mortgage rates remain so low. My kids have trouble believing me when I tell them that when we bought our home in 1983 mortgages were 17%. While the market is hot there are many developers putting up additional housing units - I don't know what the demand will be like when the majority of them come on the market.

Maire