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defrost49

New Perennials Debate

10 years ago

I need advice. I'm doing some flower bed renovation. The bed is a narrow border along a walkway on the east side of the house facing south that gets a good amount of sun except for the northern end which is shaded in the afternoon by the house. Because of the size of the bed and its location, I have decided I should limit plants to nothing that grows over 2' so the very tall yellow day lily at the north end of the bed will get removed. I tend to neglect this bed so I have been considering perennials that are drought tolerant. Lambs ears spread but I kind of like them. Astilbe is not doing well and I think probably due to insufficient watering. I think if I was smart I would know that astilbe and lambs ears shouldn't be in the same bed. I thought of the following and would like comments - good or bad.

1. Cotton Candy Betony - I like everything about the plant, shape of foliage and flower color but not much experience with it.

2. Peachy Seduction Yarrow - should go well with lambs ears and might be a good color more peach than pink. I'd like flower colors in this bed to be reddish to pinkish on the peachy side. Possible accent color would be provided by annuals. I love marigolds and have a growing fondness for zinnias.

3. Siskiyou Evening Primrose for a low grower except I've just been reading complaints that it's invasive. Does anyone vote for this plant?

I have two clumps of dianthus with a pink flower and just bought a third with a red flower (Frosty fire Alwoodi). Possibly a mistake but they have the fragrance I've been looking for. Lady's Mantle is growing well but I would remove a couple of small hosta which aren't getting enough water and don't belong with lambs ears.

This border is one of the first things you see as you come in the driveway. I think one of my problems is not repeating the same plant and I think a coordinated look would be better then the current "mess". I am not sure yarrow would be a good choice for the predominant plant. I also don't want all silver/gray foliage plants.

Help!

Comments (13)

  • 10 years ago

    Defrost, you said that this bed is one of the first things folks see when they come into the driveway. Do you mind its being bare in the winter or have you considered low-growing shrubs here? I ask because you said it's sometimes neglected. Please, don't take what I said as a criticism! I have many neglected areas in my yard.

    I'm also curious as to the width and length of this area. Do you have a photo?

    The only plant on your list that I have is the Evening Primrose ... it is very, very difficult to control! Even after several years of determined attacks by me, Oenothera siskiyou still appears everywhere. Yes, the flowers are lovely with their sparkling centers, especially in full sun where I think it looks best. It requires cutting back to keep it looking "full"... if that's the look you want. Otherwise the terminal ends get long and whip-like.



    defrost49 thanked moliep
  • 10 years ago

    Moliep, I don't mind "debate". I'm not good at keeping things under control so Siskiyou is probably not the plant for me. Bed is about 3' wide but width could possibly be expanded, maybe 20' long. It will be ok bare in the winter because it's easily overlooked. We have a long driveway, the last section is bounded by old stone walls and maple trees so the stone wall kind of blocks a good view of the border. After trimming back some plants, I like the look of the bed better so that's why I'd like to keep things low. The walkway is against the screened porch end of the house.

    I'm almost too embarrassed to take a picture of the mess it is now. LOL. Have thought of plunking in a line of mums for the fall since it may be impossible to find some perennials this time of year. I have not had mums except for a sprawling pink overwinter for me so they would be pulled out in the spring.

  • 10 years ago

    Brick walkway is right against screened porch on west side of bed. Lawn slopes gently away on the east side. The east side of the bed is currently edged with a board because the side needed to be squared/leveled up.

    Dianthus would be accent plants. I haven't grown achillea long enough to be familiar with its longevity so I appreciate the info. I have three plants in another bed that right now make a nice swath after a couple of seasons. At any rate, I'm not sure achillea would be a good main attraction for the bed. Considered red satin coreopsis but did not think it was reliably hard here in zone 5 NH. Something like echinacae might be good. I'd prefer one that wasn't the traditional pink but, again, I'm not sure of the hardiness of the newer colored introductions.


  • 10 years ago

    I am another vote against a couple of your plants. The Siskiyou evening primrose is such a rambunctious spreader that IME it would be fine only if that were all you want in the bed.

    In theory I like the idea of peachy colors by the brick, but they are more diffiuclt to find than the bluish-reds IME. The Dianthus in red or pink shades will have two issues in this spot. All the red/pink Dianthus I've ever seen are on the blue end of pink, and you want yours on the peachy end, so I think they will clash horribly with the other flowers if any bloom at the same time. (I don't know - perhaps you've found some that won't clash.) The other reason is that they are a favorite of voles. Since this is a front and much-seen bed which borders lawn, if the voles find it, you will have large bare swaths or worse, scabrous-looking tufts. I'd either tuck some white ones into wire mesh cages to prevent them from getting eaten or skip them entirely in this bed. I'd put the pink/red ones somewhere else where you will catch that lovely scent - a porch, or a spring seating area. For scent in this spot, how about a short white or chartreuse Nicotiana? They are an annual, but will reseed once planted if the bed isn't mulched, and the voles don't touch them. Try to avoid the pinks and reds since they are also on the blue side. Mine start blooming in late July and last until first frost.

    I'd also check out the pink shade of the betony. All the ones I've seen have also been on the blue side of pink, venturing towards mauve, not a good combo with peach. On the other hand, the voles haven't bothered mine, they are happy with low water, and the foliage is tidy. It seeded some, but not badly.

    For low-growing peachy pinks and other low-water-tolerant plants:

    There are some of the small spireas with golden or green foliage that stay small (especially after winter hard pruning) and have flowers that are pink in a shade that doesn't veer towards mauve-pinks to my eye.

    Look at the thread-leafed coreopsis again. Instead of one of the new wowie-zowie colors that isn't hardy here (or looks bad if it does survive) look at some of the old-fashioned ones such as Zagreb or Moonbeam (yellow), rosea (pink) or alba (white). I've got Golden Gain, which would be near the top of your height limit at 1 1/2'; I'd share either GG or Zagreb if you stop by. I've grown all but alba (Moonbeam and rosea at a previous house) and all do well in this area. They will also provide nice mid-green foliage that contrasts well in color and texture from the other plants.

    I know there are a lot of peach-colored daylilies, and I imagine that you can find several that stay well within your height limit.

    How about some of the peachier Geums?

    Are there short selections of butterfly weed? Or would some of the Gaillardia work there? Or I've grown a peachy colored Verbascum that topped out around 2' if you like spikes.

    Think about adding some of the smaller spring bulbs in a spot at the back of the bed where you can tuck foliage under emerging perennials or shrubs. Perhaps some of the smallest daffodils in pink (which will be on the peachy side) or yellow or white. Or the species tulip tarda/dasystemon.

    defrost49 thanked NHBabs z4b-5a NH
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks, NHBabs. I investigated Home Depot yesterday which had Siskiyou so that just above proves the spreads too quickly characteristic. I've start being very careful about what is sold in big box places because I think they tend to have a lot of easy to grow = fast spreaders. I put a limelight Artemisia in this bed once! (but I think I got it at Agway).

    Two clumps of dianthus have been successful in this bed. I think all the voles are feasting in my high tunnel (lost a small bed of carrots last fall). Switching color schemes is probably a good idea since the existing dianthus are pink and the new one is red. I am currently very happy with a planter containing Million Bells and a petunia in that peachy-pink with yellow throat teamed with white bacopa and a dark red coleus. An abutting pot is simply a snapdragon with white alyssum I found. The 6-pack of snaps were all the same color - a bronze-y red to yellow flower.

    Thanks for the offer of GG or Zagreb. I hope to visit Rolling Green Nursery when we are in Portsmouth this Saturday. A friend posted photos of alliums in her garden and I believe I have the same allium Millenium which I've simply been calling broad leafed chives ... and they are pink and available for transplanting to the bed.

  • 10 years ago

    So you are now thinking about blue-reds? I have a blue-red bed. Look at some of the geraniums if you don't mind it spilling a bit into mauves. If you want those colors, I'll have to look at my bed to see what else will stay in your size range.

  • 10 years ago

    It's the mauves I dislike. I have dark cherry petunias on the kitchen doorstep and reds elsewhere. I was trying to change color schemes but come to think of it, I also like dark purple foliage so the shrub bed has a weeping crab, shrubs with pink or white flowers (azalea in the spring, summersweet budding up) and last year I put some heurchera at the end of the bed we see from the house. The daylilies next to them are a very pale yellow, almost white., etc.

    But in the same bed I plunked a blue balloon flower which just doesn't belong. I'm trying to put more thought into color and design instead of grabbing a single plant because I love it that moment at the flower place.

  • 10 years ago

    defrost, I know you stated perennial bed, but is the idea of incorporating dwarf evergreen shrubs out of the question? Only asking because with age, for me, came neglected perennial beds. Once I incorporated shorter evergreen and flowering shrubs into the designs of most gardens, things looked a lot better to my eye year round.

    Just offering this as an idea. I did measure the width of my boxwood winter gem border (untrimmed as of now) and it is under 3 feet wide at age 10. That rule reads 27" wide, and the boxwood may be 20-24" high trimmed. By spacing perennials and annuals in between or around short shrubs, I also get to change my mind on colors every year, but still have green in winter.

    This gardener in PA (click green link) used shrubs as a background, but others have grouped maybe 4 shrubs then a space for colorful plants in ground or in larger containers, etc. georgeweigel.net

    I put some things in pots inside gardens. I've let pachysandra grow (try and stop it) into a lamp post rounded garden because I know it will be easier for me to tend to a pot or two than a whole bed that needs frequent weeding or heavier annual mulching. Works for me, just an idea.

    Jane

    defrost49 thanked corunum z6 CT
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks for the ideas, Jane. I was glad I could enlarge the photo on your link. I, too, am getting older so need to think about how much I can take care of. I saw a low spreading yellow cedar/juniper? at the local nursery that I thought was very attractive. It was one of those "where can I put it moments?". I have a second perennial bed nearby that just had an fast growing greedy perennial removed. I have some bare ground there, too. I also thought it was shady which it is for some time in the morning but it's far enough to the north of the house that it actually gets full sun a lot of the day. A lilac is doing well there. I know it will eventually get a lot bigger. I will also try to use more bark mulch and spacing further apart.

    The walkway remains a dilemma. There is more choice in reds if I did orange-red plus why hadn't I noticed the walkway is an orange-red brick! Since I cut down perennials that were finished and droopy (can anyone say anything nice about spiderwort?), I like the low look. Snapdragons, short zinnia and marigolds are blooming right now but I don't want to have to rely on annuals every year. I have long admired boxwoods but I'll have to check to see how hardy they are in my area (on the colder side of zone 5).

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Defrost - I have a perennial bed on the East side of my house that is in full sun all day. I’ve tried a lot of things there. Mine is about 20ft by 15 ft.

    I just tried Yarrow for the first time this year. I started some ‘red shades’ from seed last season from winter sowing. It's bloomed for a month already and I have been deadheading it. The new blooms are shades of red/peach and as they age they fade to almost white or a dull tan. But to me, it can get messy and will grow into your lawn. Not the same as a plant that stays where you plant it and slowly increases in size.

    I’ve stayed away from Evening Primrose, due to invasiveness complaints but no experience with it.

    Sedums…are a great drought tolerant choice. I’ve noticed in recent landscape projects around new restaurants and supermarket parking lots, they are using a lot of grasses and sedums. ‘Hamelin’ is a popular choice and the Pennisetum has a small ‘Bunny’ version that is cute and Bluestone has a ‘Burgundy Bunny’ that is 12” tall. Sedums can be a predominant choice that you could repeat at intervals. And you could put spreading sedums, that now come in lots of colors, around the large varieties. It could look like a tapestry. And there is nothing in my garden that is more carefree and bulletproof than sedums. They do look like small neat shrubs too.

    Mums, I find they do very well and look good all season as they wait for bloom in the fall, but they do need trimming back once in late June which is fine unless you have a dozen and if you miss a watering or two, the bottom foliage will yellow and I end up pulling off all the yellowed leaves which is a job.

    I pulled out all my echinacea last year, I have Dianthus, but, deadheading is just about daily, if you are up for it.

    I have a brown Carex grass that does great in the dry conditions, stays the same, round shape all season and always look good. They do a very small amount of reseeding. Surprisingly they have come back every year.

    I know you said, no to gray foliage, but really, many of the drought tolerant perennials fit that category. Lavender is a gray that beats the heat, but it’s not in bloom for long. It does look good out of bloom though. A row of them look neat and you can use the blooms for dry bouquets, sachets, or make home made soap or cosmetics.

    Penstemon comes in short varieties in different colors. I think the bloom period can be brief if you don't deadhead, but they stay neat out of bloom.

    I have been enjoying annuals in this area and I like the Nicotiana because it does reseed and doesn’t seem bothered by dry conditions. Snapdragon has done great for me this year. Portulaca is a succulent that beats the heat and dry and blooms a long time.

    defrost49 thanked prairiemoon2 z6b MA
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks, prariemoon! I bought Dazzleberry Stonecrop sedum but it's still waiting to get put in the ground while I dither about what else is going in and what's going to be taken out. I got it at Uncanoonuc which is closing 8/14. I've been debating going back now that sale has gone to 50% off. One of my big mistakes is getting only one of a plant.

    Why did you pull the echinacae? I've definitely decided against the primrose. After cleaning out something invasive, I don't want to repeat the problem.

    Boy, this is not the time of year to be looking for plants. Snapdragons and good ol' marigolds look pretty good in the border. I also like nicotiana but this year just have it in a large whiskey barrel planter. The walkway border gets some shade during the day from trees but the large bed that I thought was shady is full sun.

    And it really isn't a very good year to be transplanting and putting in new plants. So dry. Thanks for your recommendations and experience.

  • 10 years ago

    I have that problem with buying one plant too. [g] I'm trying to correct that.

    I'm holding pat in our yard, with these hot dry conditions, I'm just trying to prevent things from dying. It just depends on how the fall goes, whether I will attempt any renovations or creating new garden areas. Cooler wet weather for 3 weeks would help. I couldn't deal with this weather every year. If we continue to have drought conditions, I'm going to have to redesign, again. I thought I had already aimed for easy, drought tolerant, but, not a heck of a lot can tolerate this degree of drought, when you have a water ban.

    I have not even bought new annuals for my pots yet. My pansies just finished up and I pulled them and normally, I would bring home heat tolerant annuals to add about now, but the stock at the nurseries is looking the worst I've ever seen it. I can only imagine what this drought has been like for nurseries. I would not want to make a lot of purchases this year. Some of what I bought in the spring is struggling. But, in the fall, I will check again to see what is available. I'm going to have to do some replacing.

    The echinacea was not looking good for long for me, even the varieties that had usually done well in the beginning. And part of it, was I was tired of what I had done and wanted a change. I was making room for vegetables in my full sun perennial bed, too.

    Good luck! :-)

    defrost49 thanked prairiemoon2 z6b MA