I've used Rubbermaid containers for a couple of years and I've only ever had them crawl out and or herd up when I had the covers on. With the covers off and a covering of newspaper no problems,

The thing seems to be that the worms will continually explore the limits of whatever area is available to them that is (a) dark and (b) moist. Plastic worm bins collect condensation on the inside when they have covers on them, so worms will walk around the inside walls and undersides of lids when this occurs.

I have come to understand that this isn't a sign of problems in the bin, but a natural behavior they have that enables them to expand into new territory. They normally won't leave the bin unless some condition develops in there that is life-threatening for them and makes them desperate enough to venture into dry and/or lighted space.

I think they are also showing their displeasure with the drop of temperature. It's around 55F overnights.

Adding more food to create some additional heat helped a little. My concern, I am leaving on Friday on a 10 days trip and the worms will be left unattended. Tomorrow I'm going to install the heat cable in the RM bin, hoping that will help. I might apply a mixture of vaseline and salt around the top edge of the bin.

Otis, we too have had a lot of rainy days lately and I noticed the same thing - my worms were suddenly on the sides and the top rim of my various bins. Normally they don't venture that far from their food/bedding. Love to know the reason for that. Maybe during wet weather when the air is very humid, they know they can "stretch their legs" without worry of drying-up. Wonder if they would do the same when it's just cool and humid but with no rainfall?

Harry

Harry, how about the temps. overnight in your neck of the woods.

I seriously doubt that it is the lower temperature - as far as I can tell the worm instinct is to go deeper when it gets cold, where they will be buffered from temperatures near the surface (which swing more). Obviously this is when there are not noticeably warmer spots. As for what to do when you go away to keep them from wandering up and possibly out - agree with the suggestion above, about a thick layer of shredded paper, dry. They won't want to move up through that, and if it's an instinct to move to dryer ground, that will be enough for them. If you have a good thick layer of dry shredded paper at the top, I don't think a lid is even necessary.

My experience is that worms readily move up and down along the plastic side walls of any worm bin, as long as there is any condensed moisture available there to make them able to worm their way along. So I don't think a layer of dry paper will stop them at all if they are really motivated to get out. In fact if they are escaping bad conditions they will climb up, down and across perfectly dry surfaces...at least until they can't any more.

What was different about the pails where the worms came out onto the floor? And was it all the worms in the pail or just some of them? How many?

I have found a thick layer of shredded paper will generally keep them from moving about on the usual wander - as I understood from the original post, it was just reaction to changing atmospheric conditions, but they were still safe. If they are escaping dangerous conditions, that's a different matter.

About the worms that crawled out and dried up, I have 3 identical pails and these are the ones with lids when you snap them shut, you will need that tool to open it and I was too lazy to search for the tool. It's somewhere. Most of the lid is cut out and I glued landscape fabric in place and the lids were just sitting on top, not tightly pressed down. These are yoghurt pails, my guess 5 or 6 gal. size (20kg. of yoghurt). The walkabout happened with only 1 pail. All three are less than 1/2 full plus ca. 4" shredded newspaper.

I agree with parsley, the wet walls made it easy/more attractive for them to climb. I did line the walls with corr. cb. but with time they get wet too, and it's time to shred (by hand) and replace with new pieces. I checked this one pail and it seemed they went through the food faster than the other 2 pails. That's how I thought the cold temp. might be the cause. I have added more food since. It's not the entire population but enough. I'd say maybe 50. There are still lots left, but still! All 50 stuck to the floor of the deck.

Then there's the 1 RM bin, no idea how many gal. capacity but it's the one of 16" height. The lid fits tight. They have been eating and frolicking before then and on that same morning I found 2 places right under the lid where they were bunched up. The wall had condensation.

Then there are the 3 gal. buckets but none escaped because the lids napped tight too. They left trails covering the walls.

None of these bins have side or bottom holes; all set up in the similar principle. No walk-about in my FTs though.

Otis, are your FT bins made of plastic or wood? And to answer your earlier question the overnight temps here have been around 12-14 deg. Celsius (that's about 55-60F) with lots of completely overcast days with showers. Blah! Are you also living in the PNW?

Harry

I dunno. Those 50 escaped worms might just have been a scouting party that took a wrong turn. I think when one of those balls of roving worms goes up to an edge they have the potential of dragging the whole group over the edge by accident.

I once found a nice ball of worms sitting in the jar under the spigot on my worm factory. They were alive and well, if wet, and there were no bad conditions or smells in the bin that I could discern, and plenty of live wiggling worms left in the drainage tray. I think these guys just explored the spigot and tipped over the edge, like mountaineers roped together.

Crowding together around food is one thing , but when food is not the issue and they are still in mass indicates something else. I have not seen this in my 360 but I have seen it in my homemade bin which has been disbanded. I have read that it is stress related when this happens , meaning something is not right in denmark. I for one happen to believe that theory.

Harry: one FT is a converted 96 gal. Schaefer garbage bin a recycling company kindly donated when I just started. They even delivered it to the house on one of their runs. The other one is made of 2x4s and plywood, and it's 2'x4' as per Bentley's plan. (VB48).

In anticipation of my 10 days absence, I have topped all the bins with dry shredded paper, make sure they have enough food (but not too much) so no reason to leave for greener pasture.

I'm also in SW BC.

Otis, I'm in N. Delta, where are you living? Good to have a local here. Be great to see you FT bins in action.

Harry

harry: e-mail me yvrwormfarm@hotmail.ca

You might not get an answer until after the 19th because I don't have internet at the resort I am right now.

I keep 2 large plastic bins in a protected area. I have noticed that when it rains (not often here in CA) my worms do try to escape. I shine a light down on the tops and it prevents them from crawling out.

We always say they are "trying to escape" when maybe they're just wanting a short break from all the hustle and bustle. Perhaps some are just loners who wish to stray from the pack when higher humidity allows them to. I know I like to be close to my food sources (aka in the kitchen), but it's great to wander outside too, as long as I can stay properly "hydrated". Isn't that what beer is for? : )

Harry

Right on Harry. But with all the rain we're getting? Maybe change to schnapps?

........or hot-buttered rum, Yummmmm!

Otis, living on the north shore you are do for a real heavy rain and wind for the next few days so I suspect your worms will be on the move.

Do you do all your vermicomposting outside? Any pics to post so we can see what your set-ups are like?

cheers,

Harry

beegailmc: yeah, with a couple of bins I would do that too. I have 3 - 5 gal. bins and 1 - 9 gal. RM with loose lids and it's just too cumbersome to get a power line and lamps to go there. But yes you are right. The light will keep them down. I did fill the bins with dry shredded newspaper all the way to the rim now.

Harry, I put some big chunks of pumpkins in the bins and piled a handful of worms and bedding on top. I just checked on them and it's always these 2 bins where I am having the walk-abouts. Can't figure out what could be wrong in there because they're set up the same way I set up all my bins but something MUST be different, if only I knew what. The vaseline paste with salt mixed in applied around the top edge didn't help last time.

The 5 gal bucket has around 10 or so escapees dried up on the floor and the 9 gal. RM had worms just lingering around the edge and under the lid also around 10 or so. Not bad compared to 6 weeks ago.

All the bins (3s and 5s and 9 gals) are outside now and I am still moving things around. While they were in the furnace room (the 3s), I could check on them whenever. Now, it's too cold and dark out. Am going to box the 3 gal. and 5 gal. bins in foam boards and run a reptile heater cable inside it to prevent freezing. Got 1.5" foam boards from HD and waiting for the week end where an extra pair of hands will be available. : ). The 2x4' and the Schaeffer bins have always been outside in the carport.

I've heard of hot rum before but NOT buttered.

Otis, on the assumption that all your bins are RM style, have you checked to see if some have more condensation on the inside? If that's the case maybe the worms are just going for a stroll knowing they have no worries of drying up.

I've thought about using foam brds. too but was always put off by the price. Don't know wether it still used to insulate they inside of foundation walls but I'll bet leftover pieces get thrown out all the time.

Re the rum, my dad used to make it after working outside in the winter - just a little bit melted on the top. He was in the navy so I bet that's where he picked that up.

Harry

Check out Fraser Valley Refrigeration over there. They build and install refrigeration building using rigid insulation that is 5"-6" thick and often have remnent pieces. There was some here about 3' wide x 5' long. Free.

I think I may have found a solution to curb my worms' wanderlust. I dug a crater in the middle of the bin as deep as the VC if possible. Cover with a piece of cardboard just big enough and cover the surface (appr. 75%) with rigid plastic I have laying around. Condensation built in that crater and the plastic traps it there. That crater is full with worms and they're working and feeding and I guess whatever they fancy. There's still space between the plastic cover's edge and the bin's wall so air circulation is still happening. And on top of everything is the loose fitting lid with weedcloth as backup against critters' attack.

PS. Harry, only the 9 (or maybe 7? I'm not sure) gal. is RM. The 3 and 5 gals. are buckets and they all don't have drainage holes at the bottom. The RM is tilted to one corner where I put a cut off water bottle, no top and no bottom. Whenever liquid collected there, I removed it with a turkey baster. At harvest time, the VC is wetter than preferred but not soggy wet. I've had it with drainage holes.