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meg_wilson2

Confused about flooring.... (Super confused.)

9 years ago

(cross-posted; other forum space had too much traffic and post kept getting lost in the shuffle.

:-)

We are needing to make a decision on wood flooring within the next couple of weeks so we can get it here in time to acclimate and install before cabinets go in. Replacing vinyl laminate and berber with wood flooring into an all-in-one kitchen/dining room/keeping room space, and down the hallway.

We moved into this house from a house that had engineered wood flooring (Shaw brand) in about 60% of the house. We replaced laminate flooring with this flooring after a water filtration device busted under the sink and flooded the main floor (it was split-level). Was told by numerous people that engineered hardwoods is what we needed for more durability, ability to hold up to drips and small spills, pets, and children. I was VASTLY disappointed.

Within a couple of weeks our floors had small white scratches on them, despite having pads under all chair and table legs. Even a bread crumb or grain of sand or dirt that was caught UNDER the chair pad caused a white scratch to appear with little effort). We wiped up drips and spills immediately, but occasionally our ice maker on the fridge door would send off tiny shards of tiny ice pieces when we filled our glass -- and those made the floor buckle. I mopped very seldomly and only did so with a hardly-wet microfiber mop with a spray bottle misting now and then -- but within a few months, the edges of the floor's planks were buckling, lifting, splintering. Walking on the floors with socks, the splintered edges would grab our socks and either tear a hole in a sock OR our sock would further rip off the top layer of finish in flakes. Lastly, it was a semi-gloss sheen and bare toe prints were everywhere, all the time.

I want something more rustic this time. Something that already looks 100 years old, more matte, with dings and dents and texture so that I won't freak out when I drop the inevitable knife or spoon while unloading the dishwasher, or walk across it once with high heels (despite having a 99% no-shoes-inside policy).

Reading reviews, it seems like the pro sites are 50/50 regarding engineered vs. pre-finished SOLID hardwood flooring for high-traffic areas. Those with harder woods than oak (like hickory, etc.) say that they scratch just as easily as other, softer woods. I can't find any solid pre-finished hardwoods in the dark, espresso color we're after cheaper than $10/sqft. (our renovation budget is $7 per square foot, and that includes installation by our contractor.)

And then there's bamboo. It's gorgeous! Comes in the colors and textures we have been searching for. The Cali brand's samples are dreamy. Imagine my deflated hopes when we returned home, samples in hand, only to read reviews and warnings about humidity, shrinking, warping, fading, inability of many to install b/c of hardness....

Is all engineered hardwood going to be like the stuff we had before, described above? Is solid, pre-finished hardwood worth the price? And worth sacrificing the finishes and grain we really like? Is bamboo a death sentence?

I am honestly at a loss as to what to do. There seems to be NO perfect option. (Even when I briefly considered tile, people warned me it's not good for people with back pain/getting older. So that's out. :-)

I just want to get flooring that will last at least 5-7 years that we will be happy with, that we won't feel like we have to tiptoe around (and that won't blow our budget).

Anyone able to help me with all of the conflicting info/opinions? Thanks in advance, everyone!

Comments (17)

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    First, it sounds like you had moisture issue in your home beyond just minor spills. Were you actually flooding your home, did you check moisture levels in the house, was there an issue with the finish, did you have your floor inspected by an independent professional? There's tons of questions about what you described in your old home, but none of that helps us evaluate your current expectations.

    You're buying or just bought a home.... have you looked at other homes with wood flooring? Have you seen any with hardwoods that have been down for five or ten years that you liked? Have you been disappointed in all the older floors you've seen down? Have you actually been in a home with the color you like that's been down for a while? Knowing those things helps us understand your expectations and will help determine if they're realistic or not.

    You threw so much out, but here are a few thoughts off the top of my head:

    • Mohawk - Wallingford: it's an inexpensive birch and the Java color may be what you had in mind look wise. Birch is a little softer than oak though, but if you really are going for rustic how picky are you going to be about your floor scratching?
    • Dark espresso color: scratches in aluminum oxide finishes show up as little white marks. They really jump out on darker stains. If you want to be picky about the way the floor ages and shows everything really dark is NOT the way to go.
    • Bamboo: If you're worried about your floors being damaged by minor moisture bamboo will disappoint you. We work on a lot of lake homes and we steer folks away from bamboo whenever we can.
    • Have you considered an upper end LVT or WPC product?
    • Engineered vs solid? I think you're better off with engineered in the short term and that they hold up better against small day to day sort of accidents. The drawback is that if you ever reach the point where the wood cups it's trashed and will never go back.


  • PRO
    9 years ago

    Here's my post from your first thread - so that we can keep the theme going without jumping back and forth from one thread to another.

    ---------

    The SCRATCHES that you are upset with =
    the FINISH. These factory finishes are almost always aluminum oxide
    finishes. They scratch WHITE...the wood underneath is in PERFECT
    condition...but the surface shows white. That is the finish. This will
    show up MORE with ESPRESSO colored floor. The dark background of the
    wood shows of WHITE so much MORE! See where I'm going with this? Yah.
    Sad but true.

    If you want a dark, antique looking floor that is low gloss then you
    might have to look at the hardwax oil finishes on the market
    today....like Rubio. These take maintenance but it is STUPIDLY easy to
    maintain. Like DIY maintenance....for a few bucks you have product in
    hand that allows you - homeowner extraordinaire - to repair your floor
    at any time.

    Bamboo - yikes. As magnificent as Cali-Bamboo is, the same "finish"
    still applies = Aluminum Oxide = scratches white = back to square one.

    In your situation, I would look to a high-end vinyl plank floor.
    Your moisture concerns will also be a concern with any wood floor you
    purchase (or bamboo). Again, the darker the vinyl the MORE you will see
    SCRATCHES.

    Dark floors = SCRATCH MAGNETS. Go lighter (mid tone is fine) and you
    get away from the upset of visible scratches (the scratches will still
    be there but you will only see 10% of them).

    And the whole reason why Aluminum Oxide exists in the first place
    (the Europeans won't touch it BTW) is because N. American homeowners
    complain about scratches and wear through on wood floors. Aluminum
    Oxide reduces the scratches (by about half) but does NOT eliminate them.

    Wood floors scratch. Bamboo scratches. Cork scratches. Vinyl
    scratches. Laminate scratches. Finished concrete scratches. Sigh.
    All floors can be scratched (even carpet...but we would say it is a
    "pull" in the weave not a scratch).

    I would pick my battles (go lighter - dark is TOUGH to live with at
    the best of times) and go with something you like but won't be upset
    with when it scratches - because it always will.

  • 9 years ago

    This is our "inspiration piece." This is one of the bamboo samples we have. I'm pretty sure after reading up more that bamboo is OUT for us. But I sure would like to find another wood (hickory, etc.) that has this much distressing/texture and the subtle shine vs. glossy that so many have. If you know of anything like this that's around $5-$5.50/sqFt, I'm all ears.

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    Hickory is very dynamic = has plenty of movement when humidity goes uncontrolled or there are large swings between summer/winter.

    I would look at a wire brush finish on white oak with a satin finish with a medium gray/stain. You should be able to find dozens of them...but at $5 - $6/sf you could be stretching the quality a little too thin in the wood flooring industry. A satin finish will offer the 'glow' that you find attractive but without the hassle of a low or high gloss floor.

    Any decent vinyl floor will offer a look identical to this with a budget price that is happily inside your budget range.

  • PRO
    9 years ago
    @projectackler where are you located? I may have some leads for you.
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    MY 2 cents. I always prefer solid over eng. whenever possible. Will last a lifetime with proper care. I don't know what area you are in because that somewhat determines price levels. I would suggest looking at

    1)LW Mnt. , they offer a wide range of options in solid and eng. incl. bamboo. 2)Somerset solid & eng. offers domestic species but mostly smooth surfaces.

    3) Paramount lots of hand scraped and wire brushed options

    4)Casabella solid & eng. options in smooth and textured.

    Hope it helps, happy hunting.

  • 9 years ago

    If you go with engineered, you want at least a 3mm wear layer so you don't see dings that become white.

    If you're in a very humid climate, you are probably better off with engineered.

    I am getting what you want in an engineered floor. It's part of the Kahr's Canvas collection. Only I'm doing a medium color. I've had dark and will never do it again. The other problem is the price is somewhere between $6-$6.50 a square foot.

    Additionally you mentioned you use a microfiber cloth with a mister. If the mister was water, that is the problem. Wood floors should never be cleaned with water. I use Bona. There are other wood floor cleaning brands.

    Now having said all that, I would probably suggest you look into Luxury Vinyl Tile. Coretec or some of the other better brands of LVT. It fooled me at first and I'm hard to fool.


  • 9 years ago
    I'm in South Carolina.
  • PRO
    9 years ago

    For wood I'd take a look at:

    • Palmetto Road http://www.palmettoroadflooring.com/     They have some very nice looks at solid prices. William M. Bird distributes that products in the Carolinas if your local company isn't familiar with the line.
    • Montage has a budget birch line and is distributed in the Carolinas too. You should be able to get the Valora Birch line for under $ 4 a foot. http://montagefloors.com/

    For vinyl I'd take a look at:

    • Karndean's knight tile collection - Aged Oak. The nicer LVTs are very convincing. Karndean has some great looks, but the upper end products are out of your current budget. http://www.karndean.com/en/floors/products/kp98-aged-oak
    • US floors, COREtec plus and COREtec One have some great looks. The rigid construction is more forgiving than glue down LVT when it comes to floor prep.
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    IPE is an option. Very hard and durable wood. Can be used outdoors even. Harder to finish, but can be purchased with a pre-finish.

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    This is Teak Fusion Cork (vinyl-cork hybrid floating floor). It would be a color that would work in lieu of your bamboo "inspiration" color. Going much darker could be an issue with "cleaning".

    Here's the Fusion in "Barnwood" - a brown floor with a gray tones to it.

    The finish = polypropylene = same product use to make children's toys. Cost = $3.99/sf = well within your budget.

    Good luck.

  • 9 years ago

    I am in almost the same situation, but I am willing to keep my current, indestructible travertine nocce tile in kitchen, hallways and bath. I just want wood or wood look in my entryway and front room and dining room. My main concern is scratching also due to a 47 lb 4 year old dog that sometimes goes into a night-time frenzied circuit around the house. One place I went had me sold on hardwood on which, they advised, I could cover scratches with a stain marker or Old English furniture polish. The place I went today is selling me on high end laminate with AC3 grade finish. I am just beginning to research and came across your post which I will follow very closely! One thing I did read in the replies to your post that flooring professionals have confirmed to me is that hardness does not equal scratch resistance!

  • 9 years ago

    Wood, any wood, is going to scratch or dent if you drag something sharp or drop something heavy. That said, assuming normal care you might want to explore some of the denser, harder, South American wood options. There are a variety of colors and grain patterns that should work for you, and if you shop carefully you should be able to get close to your budget. We wanted a medium tone and chose Amendoim with we got for 4.99 FOB. Things like teak and walnut will be probably be a bit more and your installer will need some expertise in installing denser flooring materials (no staples, 18 gauge L cleats). One other thing ... if you truly have moisture issues, I'd recommend you don't go wider than 3 1/4" regardless of what you choose. Wider flooring is more prone to warping unless you have a completely climate controlled environment with stable humidity. Here in the northeast I see predictable slight shrinkage and expansion in the wood due to dry winter air and moister summer air, but no distortion or warping.

  • 6 years ago

    Floorman here
    40 years experience professional installer
    First. You have a bigger leak under floor if it buckling.
    Sound to me you would be better to have vinyl plank installed instead of wood. If you want a professional job it will cost you $10 plus for wood and labor no furniture. Labor alone is $5 in Missouri. The cheap hardwood is all going to be soft easy to scratch. Vinyl plank would be cheaper. Labor is $1.50 to $2.00 sq ft. Its glue down or it can be loose laid if you buy that type. If a peace gets scratched easier to replaced even for DIY but that peace will have to be glued. Vinyl plank looks like real wood now days. Water won’t hurt it as long as not a major leak. If your on concrete for wood or vinyl a moisture test should be taken first to see if there’s any hydrostatic pressure if there is it shouldn’t lay either one would have to fix problem first. With vinyl plank if it is glued you might need 1/4” underlayment on sub floor. But loose snap in vinyl plank you shouldn’t need underlayment. If your floor is wavy so will the vinyl plank look.
    Just my advice.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    TERRY STROOT You should check the dates on posts you're responding to before taking your valuable time.

  • 5 years ago

    I found the information helpful. Thank you.

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