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portlandmysteryrose

Do rose breeders have groupies?

9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago

Musicians do. Artists do. Authors do. Why not rose breeders? Is there anyone else out there who searches for and collects roses by breeder? I love it that sites like Rogue Valley Roses and Help Me Find list and sort by hybridizer. I'm going to share 10 of my favorite rose breeders and (in my opinion) their most magical creations. Warning: purple alert! Would you like to share? Are you a rose breeder groupie and, if so, what are your most beloved cultivars by your fav breeders?

~~Vagabond Carol itraveling the Internet in her cyber VW bus and tie dye and hot on the trail of the 10 breeders below~~

(1) Thomas Rivers and Son--'Tuscany Superb' (This breeder's roses seem to be mostly unattainable now, but I grow a hedge of Tuscany Superb!)

(2) John-Pierre Vibert--'Camaieux', 'La Ville de Bruxelles', 'Yoland d'Aragon'

(3) Louis-Joseph-Ghislain Parmentier--'Cardinale de Richelieu,' 'Hippolyte', 'Tricolore de Flandres'

(4) Jean Laffay--'Capitaine John Ingram', 'Duchesse de Montebello', 'Indigo'

(5) John Bentall--'Buff Beauty'

(6) Tom Carruth--'Midnight Blue', 'Ebb Tide'

(7) Paul Barden--'Rook', 'Etienne', "Paul's Unreleased Purple Gallica", 'Nightmoss', 'Marianne', 'Song of the Stars'

(8) Kim Rupert--'Purple Buttons', 'Lauren'

(9) Robert Basye--'Basye's Purple'

(10) David Austin--'The Prince', 'Tradescant', 'Tamora', 'Munstead Wood'

If I were to list an 11th, it would be a purple multiflora hybrid rambler breeder: either Eugene Turbat for 'Violette' or Bernard Mehring for Veilchenblau'.

Comments (50)

  • 9 years ago

    I seem to like a rose more when I know its history, so I've tried a bunch of different breeders. But I've focused in on roses bred or introduced by Frederick Huber Howard, partially because they are now close to being lost, like the teas and hybrid perpetuals were a generation ago. I have Heart's Desire, Fred Howard, Apricot Queen, The Doctor, Poinsettia, Contrast and Will Rogers. I have not had good luck with Howard and Smith roses from the 1920s (both Los Angeles and Mrs. Lovell Swisher quickly died on me). But the plants from the 1930s or later have been much more vigorous. I also grow Amarcrinum howardii next to some of his roses, which is a cross of a crinum and amaryllis that Howard originated.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • 9 years ago

    Great choices! I would add Nabonnand, Cochet, Verdier, Boerner, Brownell, Pernet, Ducher,

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Poorbutroserich Susan Nashville
  • 9 years ago

    I would add Lens, Pemberton, Lambert & Meilland.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked smithdale1z8pnw
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carruth... Ebb Tide, Twilight Zone..Love Song....

    Nabonnand ... MFK, G. Nabonnand, Archduke Joseph, Duchesse of Edinburg

    Tantau... Ascot, Black Magic, Eden, Heidi Klum ( hope it becomes available here), Papa Meilland, Iceberg, Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg,

    Paul Barden.... Siren's Keep... ( wish I had the courage to try Rook).. looking at a couple others

    Jean Laffay... Le Vesuve, La Reine, Reine Victoria

    Austin....Young Lycidas, Munstead Wood, Golden Celebration, Huntington Rose

    A lot of unknowns ( Hume's Blush Tea... Barbara's Pasture Rose)

    French roses....Vintage had a good selection... I miss Vintage :(

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
  • 9 years ago

    I want to be Kim Rupert's groupie. Oh, wait... I think I already am...

    Virginia

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have nearly as many as I'd like, but I never saw a Nabonnand rose I didn't like, ditto for Cochet. Of the modern breeders, it would have to be Lim, Carruth and our own Kim Rupert (Lauren, Purple Buttons, Rayon Butterflies, Annie Laurie McDowell [deceased: death by deer....arrrrgh], Porcelain Rose, Lynnie), and Paul Barden (Jeri Jennings, Gallicandy, Joyce Barden, and I have Dakota Redwing on order).

    portlandmysteryrose thanked fig_insanity Z7b E TN
  • 9 years ago

    I gave Tom a spontaneous hug of thanks for some of my favorites at the plant sale one year, does that count. He probably thought I was a nut for that, oh well...... they are spectacular and he deserves lasting fame for them.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked kittymoonbeam
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know I'm a fan, lol I love that you can go to ARS's youtube channel to see some of them give lectures :) and of course listen to Rose chat podcasts!!! I listen to some of the same talks multiple over to glean any information I may have missed! I see hybridizers as Celebrities!

    I love Kim Rupert's blog and all that he shares on gardenweb and Rose Hybridizers...

    Ping Lim just seems so cheery and genuine... and I am inspired by his breeding program goals, at least the ones he shares :D Plus his determination to continue to produce; healthy, fragrant, beautiful, romantic roses....

    I love Paul Barden's website! I feel like he introduced me to Ralph Moore and many beautiful roses...

    and yeah I am grateful For Tom Carruth's Twilight Zone ( I was in deployed in Afghanistan and ......uhh in my free time I was looking for roses and well I found Ebb Tide and I fell in love with it!...of course by the time I came home and could purchase the rose, Twilight Zone, it's offspring was being sold at a local nursery so Ive been growing them ever since!

    Will Radler for producing such hardy roses and now working with the Meilland family to produce such roses as IceCap.... exciting things, I think are on the horizon :D

    Burling Leong, She hybridizes, though I am most grateful for her talks on T-budding.

    Of course David Austin and family, who have created a doorway to the past by reintroducing varied and old fashioned flower forms on newer roses. As a kid I love the shapes the softness and sometimes irregular loose blooms of older roses in paintings, I wondered why we didn't have roses like these anymore. These images brought my imagination to the period where many of my childhood heroines lived such as Ann Shirley, Elinor Dashwood or Elizabeth Bennet but I only ever saw the hybrid teas at the local stores....I didn't know there many varieties of heritage roses available to grow till years later.

    I also want to Mention Frank and Denis who are both hybridizers that, I am lucky enough to live by so I can pester them with rose talk and questions and John who doesn't quite get as much pestering simply because of distance but still gives me advice if I ask it :)

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Seeingreen
  • 9 years ago

    I've trying all evening to figure out how to get into my post to edit but surrender without success. Please note the "oops" in my list. Mehring created 'Perennial Blue' but not 'Veilchenblau'. The correct breeder for ''Veilchenblau' is either Hermann Kiese of Johan Schmidt Nursery or Johan Schmidt himself. Perhaps someone in the know can verify which breeder is my purple rambler hero? Perennial Blue is nice, too, of course.

  • 9 years ago

    I was a Rudolf Geschwind groupie from 1999 until a few years ago and had 19 of his roses at one time, now reduced to 10 because of their health issues. I got them for their hardiness but found that wasn't enough for me. Now I have more roses by Vibert than by any other breeder, about a dozen.

    I would like to have more McGredy roses because Sam McGredy was such a nice person on the usenet group rec.gardens. roses and he sent me Christmas greetings for several years. But I have only three of his roses, Jan Spek, Swan Lake and Old Port because most are not suitable for my climate. The only breeder I've met in person is Matthias Meilland whom I met on a rose tour in Finland. He is the young cadet of the Meilland family and hasn't bred many roses yet.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked mariannese
  • 9 years ago

    I think I'm a Paul Barden groupie, never saw one I didn't want:)

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Lisa Adams
  • 9 years ago

    I'm afraid I was ''pwned'' by David Austin Roses a long time ago when 'Graham Thomas' first came out.

    ....we don't always get on though...

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also have a fraught relationship with Mr. Austen and his creations, but I think in the past a lot of them didn't do well because I was a lousy gardener. I'll never be a very good one but the oldie Potter and Moore, Bishop's Castle, Wild Edric, Charles Darwin and Carding Mill are still with me, while bunches of others have fallen by the wayside. I had Charles Darwin in the past in almost the exact same spot and it never fried, and now the bloom is totally destroyed in less than a day, a grim reminder of how the climate has changed. Too bad I bought two of them. I don't think I'm a groupie since I don't have enough enthusiasm but this is the closest I'm able to get.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
  • 9 years ago

    I hear you, Ingrid. This summer has been awful, and it's hotter every year. So discouraging.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Lisa Adams
  • 9 years ago

    From Southern California, loves me some Pedro Dot. His roses do swell for us, and their availability is disappearing. Just a couple days ago stopped at Burling Leong's nursery in Visalia. We were on road trip back from Chico, California Garden and Landscape History Society conference. She is impassioned, she grows healthy roses, and we bought every rose named for a rosarian we personally know. Plus. Visalia is a town caught in amber, we will return for A and W Root Beer; the Roller Rink, ladies night on Saturday; Vintage Press restaurant; hallowed Ralph Moore rose display in Visalia. Oh. Roses which thrive best here in sight of the Mexico border with the U. S. are any of the Cochets. Niles thrives for us, and from Burling we just acquired Climbing White Maman Cochet.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked Dara McKay
  • 9 years ago

    I'm honored, thank you! Yes, I am also a "groupie". Ralph Moore, Paul Barden, Jack Harkness, Edward LeGrice have all been long-time favorites. Tom Carruth, of course, as much for his beautiful creations as his wonderful friendship. Kitty, don't worry. Knowing Tom, he thoroughly enjoyed your hug! He's a lovely, lovely gentleman. Robert Rippetoe for his "out there" crosses and passion. I've also enjoyed Dot and Pernet roses, but they were much more suitable for the hotter climate than for the foggier, more humid and mild new one, so they have mostly gone on to others to be enjoyed.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked roseseek
  • 9 years ago

    Dara, I've never heard of Pedro Dot. I'm off to check him out after this post. I've gotten great roses from Burling, but never actually been there. I should go sometime. My sister and her husband own a large dairy in Hanford. I'm pretty familiar with Visalia. I spent some summers there as a teenager. I would love to see Burlings roses. She's always so nice. Lisa

  • 9 years ago

    Oh my gosh, so amazingly cute and fascinating!

  • 9 years ago

    Paul, is Si on HMF? I couldn't find it because the search engine requires at least three letters; so if it IS on HMF, it's not searchable. Do you have any more details, or know if it's available?

    John

  • 9 years ago

    John, Rogue Valley Roses carries 'Si' under the micro mini class. Carol

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have Dot's Madame Gregoire Staechelin (aka 'Spanish Beauty') adorning a part of my chainlink fence and have 'Nevada' on order too. Both of them very unlike 'Si', I must say..

  • portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • portlandmysteryrose thanked nikthegreek
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Seems Paul beat me to it.. The trick is to search for 'Si' rather than Si..

    Figs,

    Also check Paul's 'Si plus plus'...

    portlandmysteryrose thanked nikthegreek
  • 9 years ago

    My neighbor grew Si' ...so interesting to read about it here and learn more of its origins.....I'm a big fan of Hans Jurgen Evers (Tantau) and grow Augusta Luise and Ascot. I seriously want Belvedere, Mariatheresia, Ashley, Lavender Ice, Capri, Aquarell, and Chippendale. But I'll take about anything, if his roses would just be sold over here. Carruth's Ebb Tide, Twilight Zone, Love Song, and Julia Child are favorites, too. and there are Austen's Evelyn, Munstead Wood, Tamora, The Prince, Boscobel, and others that I love. Though I don't grow any of these Geschwind's, I'd love to have the room to do so--Erinnerung an Brod, Gipsy Boy, and Geschwind's Schonste. Talk about purples and wines. Diane


    portlandmysteryrose thanked nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wish I had propagated and released "Si Plus Plus"* when I had the chance (I doubt anyone would bother to put such an esoteric thing in their catalog now, given the severe market contraction that continues to this day). It's a graceful, carefree plant and makes a tidy 18" shrub that blooms incessantly. The fragrance is sweet and strong, which is a big surprise given its stature and pedigree. I should take a few cuttings and get it out and shared around, in case I ever lose the original plant. (I lost scores of unique hybrids in 2014 when the Polar Vortex hit)

    *a computer programming joke.

  • 9 years ago

    Nevada is the only Dot rose grown in Sweden, a very prolific white shrub rose. Said to be a moyesii hybrid which many have doubted. Whatever its origin it's a must in my garden, a calming influence in my hot bed.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Paul, Nik, Portland. I'm going to do my best to acquire Si. I have the perfect cute little pot for it (somewhat bigger than a thimble, lol). I have very few miniatures, because my garden tends toward barely controlled chaos that eats tiny plants, but this one will live on the patio. And Paul, it's a shame you didn't intro Si Plus Plus. *I* would buy it if it were available. It has character!

    John

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dot's 'Spanish Beauty' in my garden early last spring. A glorious fragrant once bloomer.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked nikthegreek
  • 9 years ago

    I have a guilt complex about the omission of Reimer Kordes as his roses were the first ones I grew.... 'Iceberg'...'Lavender Lassie'...'Sunsprite/Korresia'... and so many more I'd still like to grow like 'Marlena'...'Westerland'..'Rosarium Uetersen'...'Alchemist'... his list reads like a Hall of Fame..

    portlandmysteryrose thanked User
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I had no idea if I had a favorite breeder when I thought about it. So I checked my inventory list and it seems the breeder whose roses I have the most of is Frank Bernardella's minis. That actually didn't surprise me much when I realized it because I love minis and Frank's are some of the best!

    Early on I was very enamored of John Sheldon's phototropic roses but unfortunately most of them are not winter hardy and I lost them all one by one. I am still fascinated by roses that will change color like that though.

    portlandmysteryrose thanked seil zone 6b MI
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you all for sharing your favorite breeders and roses! You've given me so much new research fodder. Rose breeding is the perfect amalgam of science and art. I'm so grateful that breeders both current and past and both amateur and professional persevere the relentless trials and tribulations on the path to successful cultivar creation so that all of us gardeners across the world and generations have the opportunity to commune with the Queen of Flowers. I can't (and don't want to) imagine life without my favorite roses! Thank you, thank you , rose breeders everywhere! Carol

  • 9 years ago

    Fascinating about 'Si' and 'Si Plus Plus'. I laughed out loud when I made the C++ connection. Paul, I'm afraid to ask, what roses did you lose? Ones from your own breeding program or others in your collection? You really should make copies of 'Si Plus Plus' and spread it around. I'm sure a lot of effort went into creating it. It'd be a shame to lose it.

    The first roses I was passionate about were Joseph Pemberton's hybrid musks. They got me into roses. I can also join the chorus in loving Paul's roses, as well as many of David Austin's.

    -Chris

    portlandmysteryrose thanked chris209 (LI, NY Z7a)
  • 9 years ago

    I readily admit that I Walter Van Fleet is my favorite hybridizer. The love affair started with 'Dr. W. Van Fleet' (which is a MUCH nicer rose in my garden than 'New Dawn', its sport). Every summer, I anticipate the flowers on 'American Pillar' in my garden, growing 20+ feet into a tree. My quest to reunite the Lovett Sisters ('Alida Lovett', 'Mary Lovett', and 'Bess Lovett'), and to reestablish some of his lost roses in the US, led to long-lasting friendships that I treasure, and to spirited discussions with other Van Fleet rose geeks. The ARS valued Van Fleet's contribution to the rose world so much that they went out of their way to work with the Department of Agriculture to introduce some of his hybrids after his death. ('Dr. E. M. Mills', 'Sarah Van Fleet', 'Breeze Hill', and 'Glenn Dale')

    I could go on and on ... to read a bit about the man, go to this page:

    http://www.saveseeds.org/biography/van_fleet/index.html


    portlandmysteryrose thanked hartwoodroses
  • 9 years ago

    Chris, 90% of all the plants archived in the greenhouses were killed during that sub-zero week in 2014. That included most of my proprietary breeding stock. The stuff I valued the most was kept in pots in the greenhouses, where ironically they were at greatest risk. Not a thing I can do about that now!

  • 9 years ago

    I have several. Kim Rupert is one. Burling is another. Ralph Moore is another fav. Those three are some of the nicest folks you could ever meet.

    Barni--love his roses. Love my Delbard rose that I have as well. Seems to do great in my climate.

    Used to be a big fan of Austin. Not so much anymore. Does that make me fickle?

    portlandmysteryrose thanked mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
  • 9 years ago

    Thank you! That is a wonderful "club" in which to be included, and I fully agree with you about the other members! No, having fallen off the Austin bandwagon does not make you fickle. Way back, when the climate and resources allowed us to shower them with what they demand to flourish here, they were a "guilty pleasure" for many of us. Dwindling water combined with increasing heat and UV have made them significantly more difficult to maintain for many of us. That is not "fickle", but realistic.

  • 9 years ago

    Thanks Kim. I do have to tell you that your rose babies are coming along just fine. I am finding that their flowers are changing somewhat from their first blooms. I only had three that survived the heat and water restrictions of the hot, hot summer. Although I did give them "left over" water from warming up showers, etc., since they were in small pots. I think one of them maybe a climber after all. They are still very small and am curious to see what they will do next year when they have matured a bit.

    On another blog that I subscribe to, this woman who lives in Italy for part of the year, when to the Barni nursery. She wanted a rose for her garden, Before they would sell her the rose, they sat down with her and asked where it was going to be placed, where she lived in Italy, the space available for the rose, if she wanted one that was "easy to maintain", how long she had gardened, etc. It was after she answered the questions that they sold her the rose along with instructions on how to plant it, care for it, etc. I am not sure how to interpret this as wanting to make sure she got a rose that would work for her or if they were somewhat snooty about who they sell roses to. I am hoping it is the former and not the later. If it is the later, it kind of reminds me of D Austin...

  • 9 years ago

    I can understand your sentiments, but I honestly have done the same thing. I had to. There are too many "zones" and micro climates that vary greatly in very short distances. When someone would drive into the place and ask for a rose that would endure the "heat", I had to ask if they were down along the lowlands where "heat" meant 70 - 75 after a morning full of dense fog, or up in the "Highlands" where at the precise time the lowlands may hit the mid seventies, the elevations were literally triple digits. You very often have to dig someone's definition of "shade" out of them. "Full sun" can mean anything from dawn to dusk exposure to all afternoon sun (and sometimes, even less). "Lots of space" has meant everything from a three foot wide by five foot long area to half an acre or more. The person's dedication to investing time and energy also play huge parts. I was called for help designing the "entertainment" area of a client's yard. There are large, sweeping beds which had Icebergs planted by the dozen. They look very good (or did, I don't live in the area now) but she wanted more "color". She had also been collecting Teas and Chinas from the local rose society meetings and I needed to know whether she wanted a garden she SHOULD spend a couple of hours a day playing in, or whether she wanted a colorful area she could choose to play in, or ignore and let the lawn guy dead head it for her. She wanted both, so the entertainment area got to keep its Icebergs but other low maintenance roses were woven through them to provide color and texture, while another area of the yard was pressed into holding her more "intimate roses". Even when both people have similar understandings of the terms, there can still be a LOT of variation to their meanings. I doubt it was snobbery and more a genuine desire to as artfully, correctly match the plant with the desires and tastes of the grower. You want the customer to be happy, and you definitely want him/her to compliment you to their friends instead of complaining you sold them the wrong plant for the wrong place or one that required a lot more care than they wanted to provide. It can sometimes be a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition.

  • 8 years ago

    Nik, I hope you see this. I have a baby own root "Spanish Beauty" in a pot since March 2018. My baby gets some mildew and BS. Yours looks so healthy. We have hot and dry summers here. I hope mine looks like yours some day.



    Very small, but she made an effort. I don't spray. I hope that works.

  • 8 years ago

    If I didn't have to work for a living I would probably be a professional rose breeder groupie and travel around the world visiting rose gardens. Of course I would have enough money so as to hire a gardener to look after my own roses while I was away.

    I had a terrible crush on David Austin in the late 90s. Now not so much, because of his business practices and the extreme level of euphemism in his catalog descriptions. But I still admire his output.

  • 2 years ago

    I just came across this seven-year-old thread. I don't know how I missed it when it was current. I'm reviving it so that those who like me would enjoy it, but didn't see it first time around, would have the opportunity.

  • 2 years ago

    Your ears must have been burning because I was just searching this site! Just thisPassed out! Just this past hour

  • 2 years ago

    I was searching Turbat.

  • 2 years ago

    I'm a huge fan of Hans Jurgen Evers, who bred some of Tantau's best roses. I grow some of his beautiful plants, but would love to grow more. I'm also a big fan of Tom Carruth, and some of my top all around roses and my best purples are the products of his superb creativity. I probably have more Austins than any other of my roses, and I greatly respect David Austin's talent, and the revolution, yes, let's admit it, his roses produced in the rose world. That's a start. I'll be back. That doesn't make me a groupie, but it's close. Diane

  • 2 years ago

    Diane, I think you wrote ! It's good to know Our taste hasn't changed. I think you wrote the same thing7y years ago! Lol!

  • 2 years ago

    I just remembered Geschwind. I'm a great fan of his roses, though I don't grow any of them. I just admire their gorgeous looks, especially all the purples. Diane

  • 2 years ago

    I also like Jerabek, john Bag basis creations and foolish awe purples. CawlishCawlishaws purplesaws

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Dot, Legrice, Harkness, Cowlishaw, Bohm, Rautio Brown Bros .Lee, Pemberton...but mostly spontaneous wildlings, especially pimpinellifolias.