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Bad contractor not enough top soil

10 years ago

Hi guys, had a new house built in Mass, and during the build they brought in lintpack to establish initial grade around the house. However, they built it up too much in some areas. Rather than scraping it off they went ahead and just thinned out the topsoil they laid down on it. So in some areas I have a nice 4" of top soil, in other areas it's 2" at best. Then along areas near the driveway more like 1". What can I do? I would like to have a nice drought tolerant lawn, and not have to water everyday because such little topsoil in those areas. The good news is, I think I have some slope to work with to add soil in some areas that are thin more in the middle of the yard. Would that be helpful or am I just wasting time and $$ Also, what about the thinner areas along side the driveway? After the top coat of the driveway was installed, I have about .5 to 1" of driveway above the ground, should I fill that next to the driveway and taper into the lawn as well? Use topsoil/sand? Mix? Thank you for your feedback!

Comments (22)

  • 10 years ago

    Watering: Deep and infrequent is the mantra for watering. This is for all turf grass all over the place. Deep means 1 inch all at one time. Put some cat food or tuna cans around the yard, and time how long it takes your sprinkler(s) to fill all the cans. Memorize that time. That will be the time you water from now on. My hose, sprinkler and water pressure takes 8 full hours to fill the cans. Your time will likely be less. I like gentle watering. As for watering frequency, that depends on the daytime air temperature. With temps in the 90s, deep water once per week. With temps in the 80s, deep water once every 2 weeks. With temps in the 70s, deep water once every 3 weeks. With temps below 70, deep water once a month. Note that you have to keep up with quickly changing temps in the spring and fall. This deep and infrequent schedule works in Phoenix and in Vermont, so it should work for you. The reason for deep and infrequent is to grow deeper, more drought resistant roots and to allow the soil to dry completely at the surface for several days before watering again. If it rains, reset your calendar to account for the rainfall.

    Your topsoil depth should not make any difference. Just don't add any more if they got your drainage right. If you have low spots, then bring those up to grade. But if you don't then leave it alone. Having too much soil is more of an issue than too little.

  • 10 years ago

    You could sow some annual ryegrass for a few seasons. That will send some nice roots into the soil, prevent erosion, and allow you to get a good look @ "what's what." (Soil testing, drainage observation, irrigation Installation, etc.).

    Annual rye is dirt cheap so you won't lose much if the soil just plain sucks. Meanwhile, those roots will add plenty of organic matter into the soil, improving it for your future lawn with a more desirable Turf grass. (KBG or TTTF).

  • 10 years ago

    Hmm that is an interesting idea about planting the rye. About watering not sure I agree that the soil depth doesn't matter. Can you help me understand why soil depth doesn't matter? If there was something under the topsoil that would retain moisture I would agree, but this is lint-pack. It is more like concrete. While they were building the house for the entire year nothing grew on that stuff... no weeds nothing and during heavy rains no mud. It makes for a great surface during the building but not so much for growing anything. I suspect what happens is that 1 inch of soil on top of that stuff dries up pretty quick and there is no moisture for the grass to draw from resulting in weak and distressed grass. This is all speculation by me based on what everyone says in terms of the minimum recommend soil depth for planting grass is 4 inches. But I'm not an expert and why I am out here asking for advice.

  • 10 years ago

    If you need more moisture retention, look at topdressing with the proper materials. Sand will raise the level without changing drainage, compost will retain moisture without raising the level & calcined clay products like turface will retain huge amounts of resources in just a thin layer of material. Some people blend all 3. I understand what you're saying about the hardpack but the drainage is really important, so it's safest to never add topsoil when there are better options.

  • 10 years ago

    You might want to get the $25 soil test from Logan Labs and post the results here for a reading. Look a the other soil test posts to see what to expect in the way of advice. That should alleviate your fear about the soil.

    Almost any soil can be improved ranging from sand to clay. What you have is a mix of minerals and salts along with living microbes that will fix your soil when the chemistry is correct. You can kick start the soil repair process by spraying it with any clearish shampoo at the rate of 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. Then water that in with 1/2 to 1 inch of water as measured by placing cat food or tuna cans in the yard. When they are filled, you have 1 inch. The shampoo is a surfactant that carries down into the soil. It creates the perfect environment for the beneficial fungi to fix your soil. You can feed the fungi and bacteria in the soil with organic fertilizer to keep them going. The shampoo should be a one time event unless the soil dries out too much. I sprayed mine in San Antonio in 2012 and it still gets very soft when it rains. Also shampoo is something you cannot overdo. If you get 6 or 8 ounces per 1,000, no problem.

  • 10 years ago

    What is "lintpack"?

  • 10 years ago

    Its basically finely crushed/pulverized stone and other fill materials. Not even worthy of the name dirt. That one weed(I think it was a Locust tree) is the only thing that grew in this stuff all year, and you can see they basically made final grade with this stuff. You can imagine how thin the good soil is around the house. (and in some areas in the middle of the yard)

  • 10 years ago

    Another view, closer...

  • 10 years ago

    You are going to have some good soil eventually. All those trees and leaves are going to add tons of organic matter to you dirt and turn it into what you are calling "topsoil." There is no magic in topsoil, just old crappy dirt no one wanted and organic material. Companies make topsoil with composted materials (garbage food waste, lawns clippings, leaves, etc) and fill dirt.

    People don't realize that they pay Company A to take away their garbage, lawn waste, and "bad" dirt, then pay Company B to bring in topsoil. Both companies are usually owned and/or operated by the same parent company. They are making money two ways and the public really has no idea. It's no secret in the industry but most of the nurseries and contractors (middlemen) don't speak about it. The companies however will tell you upfront or even post it on their websites.

  • 10 years ago

    Earlier I said, "Almost any soil can be improved ranging from sand to clay." It sounds like you have rubble and not even sand. Yet it looks kind of sticky in among the rocks. I would really like to see a jar test to see what this soil looks like. Here's how:

    1. Find a glass or plastic jar with straight sides in the middle.
    2. Fill it half way with soil and take a picture with a ruler next to it showing the height in the jar.
    3. Fill it all the way with water and a few drops of liquid soap. Shake it up and set it down.
    4. After 2 minutes take another picture with the ruler.
    5. After 2 hours take another picture with the ruler.
    6. After 2 days take another picture with the ruler.
    7. Post all 4 pictures here.

    You need to get something growing soon. I'm afraid this is going to look poorly for a few seasons until the soil improves. The longer you have something growing in it the better it will look. I guess rye would be good, especially at this time of year. Think of it as a cover crop. The idea is to get roots in the ground so they can improve it.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Thank you for the comments and suggestions. I will do the soil in the jar test that will be interesting for sure. One point of clarification. That material you see in the pictures is what the contractor brought in for grading. There is anywhere from 3 feet of that material around the house and then it tapers down in thickness as you move away from the house after about 50 feet from the house, and then its back to native soil. Then the contractor came back and added un screened loam on top of that fill material, semi leveled with a bobcat and hydro seeded last December. That unscreened loam in some areas is ~4 inches, in other areas more like 1 inch. What I found during the summer is that the areas that were only 1 " thick over that fill, unless I watered everyday, would dry out and die. I'm assuming the grass died in those areas because the roots could not penetrate that material. Therefore the roots remained shallow, with not enough moisture and nutrients and the grass would dry out quickly without constant watering. Is that a bad assumption? If that is correct, how to I address it?

  • 10 years ago

  • 10 years ago

    These are pictures of what I am talking about, you can see how thick that fill is, and that kind of basic crap that is in there.

  • 10 years ago

    I agree with DC, throw down some cheap rye seed & see if you can get it to grow. It will help to open up the soil & give you an idea of whether or not it's worth the time or expense of high quality seed. What are we looking at in these pics? Is that a hole, or your foundation or erosion or what?

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Hi, yes that is a hole next to my foundation that was dug last year during construction to install a sewar system pump ( black container in top pic). This was prior to the contractor putting down thin layer of topsoil and hydro seed. Also, yes, that is my foundation that you can see part of in the top pic.

  • 10 years ago

    At least there's some old roots in there...Something can grow in that stuff!

  • 10 years ago

    You can improve the water penetration and thence the soil health, by spraying it with shampoo. Shampoo will allow the water to penetrate deeper into the bad soil and will allow the soil microbes to populate. Once that happens, all sorts of good things get started. The beneficial fungi will open up the soil much better than an aerator would do. You can use any shampoo that you can see through at a rate of 3 ounces per 1,000 square feet. Water that in with 1/2 to 1 inch of water to wash it down deep. After a few weeks you should notice that every time the soil gets saturated from rain or irrigation that it feels very soft to walk on. That's a good thing. That makes it easier for the roots to penetrate. The roots will exchange sugar an nutrients with the soil microbes and improve the soil much better than you could do by amending.

  • 10 years ago

    Hi dcallhall, quick question about the shampoo. Will that shampoo be able to get down into that layer effectively? Don't forget that there is 1-4"+ layer of topsoil on top of that fill depending on the location of the yard. I am attaching a photo of a quick sketch I made in case what I have been trying to explain is not clear. Also, reeljake, I wish and hope you are right. All of those roots you see are not from growth on the property, its just left over debris that had been thrown into the pile of the fill, before the fill was dropped off and spread around my property.




  • 10 years ago

    If you find the shampoo foams too much or the math leads you to massive quantities, jet-dry can be used as an alternative surfactant at 1/3 the rate. Your lawn doesn't smell as nice & you would need to do a cost comparison, but 1oz per thousand works better for me.

  • 10 years ago

    Another option is using sodium laureth sulfate directly.

  • 10 years ago

    Is that on the spice aisle at Walmart or I have to make a special trip to the sodium laureth sulfate store? Ha!

  • 10 years ago

    You'd have to make a special virtual trip, http://www.bulkapothecary.com/ is one source.

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