Phew, the first post went through so here's my new kitchen plan.

1) the "West Wall" opens into our dining area and family room

2) We are also adding a mudroom adjacent to the kitchen.

So what do you think ? Any glaring issues your kitchen-wise eyes can pick up ?

I am concerned about two things (at this moment)

1) Is the mudroom big enough to accommodate washer/dryer side by side ,

a cubby area for hanging bags and jackets and a second refrigerator (GULP?)

2) Can we tweak the kitchen plan to increase the square footage in the mudroom without losing kitchen functionality.

3) Is the wasted space in the kitchen (marked with red box) useable in some way?

I would love to have a spot for a comfy chair/sofa in the kitchen. DH is hesitant to

add any fabric based surface to our kitchen based our my prior experiences with

turmeric/curry and my 6 year olds reluctance to wash hands after "helping" in the kitchen. I can think of some wipeable material that could serve to upholster a couch/loveseat but where to place it?

4) Granite Choices : anyone have any other suggestions for a low/no maintenance brown countertop. I am somewhat restricted in the color since the floor tile needs to match my family room tile. We will have radiant heated floors (love that in my family room) so I am not concerned about the discomfort of cold tile. I love the

quartzite in my kitchen palette (whose name escapes me) from a local showroom but I know, Ijust know that sooner or later I will chop ginger or cilantro on my countertop so going with a more foolproof option for me. My current island has blue pearl and boy has it been a workhorse. I chop veggies on it (to the detriment of my knives) and I have even crushed garlic and other aromatics on it once or twice when my mortar/pestle where otherwise occupied (full confession here)

Here's my current kitchen palette

We fell in love with the zebrawood but also considered walnut (like it ),

lacewood (love the wood but too soft), cherry (changes color too much) and maple (too yellow). Here's a headboard my DH is making with leftover samples of

wood

Regards,

Usha

Oops, the kitchen plan did not go through. Here it is

Plan with possible wasted space marked in red

I love the headboard. Will DH be making the cabinets? It certainly looks like he has the talent to do so.

He would love to !

but I would like to use the kitchen sometime this decade :) so the timing is not good.

Besides that its hitting home that our 14 year old will be only living at home for the next 4+ years, I would like to maximize our family time. But again he is a teenager so maybe that moment has come and gone :(

DH will build the island countertop and my plant shelves in the kitchen so he does get to do something hands on.

The cabinets are Durasupreme (per our KDs recommendations) and we will use the flat front cabinets.

Usha

Your current kitchen looks so warm and cozy. Great work by your DH.

Nice plan! The only thing I'd change is the prep sink location, to the other end of the island, so that it's easy to scoop prepped items and step across the aisle to drop them on the cooktop. But I can understand having the sink where it's located leaves more space to prep and also provides a drop zone for incoming groceries to be loaded to the pantry. Just a personal choice.

I can't tell how deep the seating overhang on the island is drawn. You might already be aware that the NKBA recommended minimum is 15"--if the base cabinets on the island are 18" and 12" deep, then overhang is fine.

The 'wasted space' doesn't seem wasted to me--it's for traffic in a busy household. If you need extra storage, you might consider a stud bay pantry cabinet on the wall between the doors. I have one, which holds a lot of canned goods, and often recommend them in smaller kitchens. I built mine, re-using doors from the former cabinets, so I'm sure your talented DH would have no problem building one. Good luck!

Stud bay storage

That stud bay storage is so cool, I want one just for the joy ofclaming an unused wall space :)

i will run it by my DH, could be another project he could do in the bathroom

Our house is 1950 cape cod so storage is premium.

thanks mama goose.

and yes the island is 18 and 12 as you recommended.

i am still debating in the sink placement in island- were u suggesting keeping the sink towards the refrigerator side ? I have gone back an forth on the size of it as well. Would it look strange to have a 15 " sink right across the aisle from a 27" sink ? we are planning to use our current silgranite sink as the main sink.

Usha

I was suggesting having the prep sink on the end closer to the pantry, so that items can be rinsed, placed to the left of the sink to be prepped, then picked up and dropped on the cooktop. You are going to be walking around the island to the fridge anyway, and items will be placed in roughly the same spot.

I'd put a trash pull-out where you had the sink drawn, central to all the prep zones. You could have a standard 24" deep cabinet, and your DH could build al shallow cabinet on the back to use up the remaining 6". You could store the holiday platters there, or hide the chocolate chips from the kids. ;)

Actually, looking at it on paper, I think I might put the fridge on the sink wall, and put a second pantry cab on the wall with the ovens. If there are no pipes in the PR wall, you might be able to recess the fridge to gain a few inches of aisle space, and make the fridge look more built in. ETA, I forgot to add that I adjusted the island to give you a few more inches in the work aisle. This plan has some zone crossing, but with a wider aisle (52-54"?) there should be plenty of room for two people to work at the same time:

I think that if you do mama goose's last plan, you should skip the pantry to the left of the fridge and use that space in the powder room for a vanity.

How nice that your DH does such nice woodwork!

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Kitchen layout - I have some concerns....

Aisles...It looks like you are measuring them correctly for the most part (counter edge-to-counter edge, not cabinet-to-cabinet) - with one notable exception - in front of the refrigerator.

If the refrigerator is a counter-depth, be aware that it's depth will be around 31" plus an inch or so behind it for plug, water line, anti-tilt, etc. So, figure 32". That means it will stick out approx 6.5" past the counters. You show an aisle of 52.5" b/w the island an left wall; however, when you factor in the refrigerator, the aisle is only 46" in front of the refrigerator - and you have a seat there. That isn't wide enough. I would eliminate that one seat and give your self more useful work room on that island.

(If the refrigerator is a standard depth, then you have even less space - subtract another 5" off the aisle.)

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Ovens...You have your wall oven and MW in the middle of your seating area - I wouldn't want someone sitting there, especially if I was trying to use the wall oven. Opening it will send out a blast of heat, you will have to maneuver around someone sitting at the island to be able to put food in or take it out, and, finally, many of us have discovered that the best landing space for a wall oven is actually across from it - which you will not be able to use b/c there will be people and/or stools in the way of using the island as landing space.

Do you have any landing space on the left side of the wall oven? I think it says "bookshelf" - so is that a full height bookshelf or just in an upper or base cabinet with counter b/w the cabinets? I'm not convinced the "catchall" counter will be available for use as oven landing space.

Ditto, btw, concerning the MW, for the most part.

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Island...if you plan to prep on the island, then the island is a major barrier island - it's b/w the refrigerator and the prep space on the opposite side of the island. If you plan to prep on the perimeter b/w the sink and cooktop, then the island is no longer a barrier. The prep sink, in that case, would be OK for a second person prepping (who would still have to deal with the barrier island) - just not for a primary prep area. I would then move the sink as MamaGoose suggests.

The other issue with having your primary Prep Zone on the island is the DW - if the door is open while someone is loading or unloading, you won't be able to use a lot of the island for workspace. We have close to 47" b/w our peninsula and our sink wall and that's just enough to pass by an open DW door - but not enough to work opposite it - and you only have 1" more.

Oh, and I'd add another 2 or 3 inches to the length of your island You need:

• 4 seats at 24" linear space each = 96"
• seats on the short end need 15" of clear leg/knee space as well = 15"
• 96" + 15" = 111"

Your island is 109", only a couple of inches shorter. Will it matter? I don't know...are you a tall or large family? If so, then those couple of inches may very well make a difference. (You don't have to answer that here, just be honest with yourself privately.) I know there has been some discussion in the world of Kitchen Design about changing the guidelines to specify 30" per diner rather than 24"...

Bottom Line: I would eliminate the seat in front of the refrigerator and add a couple of inches to the length (toward the FR end) of the island.

If you eliminated that seat in front of the refrigerator, you could then get a 30"W x 24"D cabinet there (drawers, of course!) - a nice chunk of cabinet storage that's not broken up or too shallow. It would also then make it easier to access the refrigerator.

Do you really need 6 seats? I would hope that when your entire family is present for a meal that you will be using the Dining Room - table seating is much more conducive to family bonding than counter seating (think of a diner with counter seats - they're great for strangers, but not so much for family!) Five seats should be plenty for snacks/quick meals, even when your boys have friends over.

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Mudroom...Is it also your Laundry Room? Do you plan to put a door b/w the Laundry Room and the Mudroom to separate the rooms? Personally, I would not want everyone coming in via the Mudroom to see my dirty (or even clean) clothes! Separate rooms would be better.

Better yet - can the Laundry Room be moved to wherever the bedrooms are? That's where most laundry comes from, so it makes sense to locate the washer & dryer where the clothes will be coming from/going back to.

Does the Mudroom have a "Command/Message Center"? If not, consider one in your "wasted space" area. It would help keep the non-Kitchen clutter out of your Kitchen!

• Make the Garage/Mudroom door a sliding door (36" wide)
• Move the door down closer to the cabinets
• Put in a "Command/Message Center in the corner space you now have.
• Train/encourage everyone to drop their keys, phones, mail, etc., in the Command Center, not the Kitchen on that "catchall" counter!
• Note: I'd move both doors in the Mudroom down - they'd still match up and you can fit either cubbies or a closet on the "top" wall of the Mudroom.

Is it wide enough? It depends, are you planning to put in a closet or cubbies? If cubbies, I would keep them shallow, no more than 18" deep b/c you need room to maneuver while taking off boots, shoes, etc. A closet will need to be 28" to 30" deep, including walls. There isn't enough room for a closet along the side walls.

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Other comments....

• Will there be enough room b/w the cooktop and cleanup sink for you to prep (since you said you like to spread out)? Because of the locations of the cooktop, refrigerator, and work side of the island, the most logical place for your Primary Prep Zone is the counterspace b/w the cleanup sink and the cooktop.

• You will gain more "floor space" and usable workspace if you make the corners 90-degree cutouts instead of diagonals. It will also open up the Kitchen space in general.

• Open shelves in your "Baking Zone" - with flour flying around, do you really want open shelves?

• If you are going to have open shelves near the cooktop, be sure you have very good venting -
  -- A hood at least 6" wider than the cooking surface and at least 24" deep
  -- A fan at least 600 to 900 cfms (more if you fry/stir fry a lot or grill inside)
  -- A hood that's vented to the outside
  -- A hood that is shaped so it adequately captures the grease, smoke, steam, fumes, odors, etc., since you won't have any cabinets flanking the hood to help corralling the grease, steam, etc.

Pantry...a built in pantry is more useful, provides better overall storage, and is more flexible than pantry cabinets - and for a lot less money!

I would not eliminate a built-in pantry in favor of pantry cabinets - those are for when you have no other choice. Even then, you should try to limit their width to 18" or so. Pantry cabinets are generally too deep to be effective/efficient storage and too limiting in their storage options.

If you wanted to move your pantry to the other wall, you could still build it in and then use that space as KarenSeb suggested for the vanity.

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BTW...do you have a plan without all the added labels in red & purple?

Do you have a sketch of the entire floor so we can see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the house and how traffic will flow in and around the Kitchen?

Great idea Karenseb! Adding to it, what about this? NOW, the island is ideal for the Primary Prep Zone, workflow is followed, no barrier island, and the seats have plenty of room!

Oh, and I'd move the prep sink to the other end of the island.

Wow you guys rock ! Lots to think about. I will ponder over your collective suggestions this weekend.

Buehl, You have made me question my "cooking patterns" in the most thought

provoking manner. Thank you Thank you.

Buehl, Karenseb and MamaGoose,

I don't know how you are able to get into a brand new kitchen plan and really

retro build it, its a terrific skill, I wish I possessed ( I really mean that ).

One immediate issue that came to mind is the positioning of stovetop in front of my windows, I will have to talk to DH about options moving the windows to the east wall BUT our neighbors garage is right there (not a pretty view ) so we will have to figure that out.

Also, does this modified plan substantially reduce the amount of countertop space I will have in the new kitchen ? I hear you all in my head going "Layout Layout Layout" after all whats the use of a counter one cannot access easily ? but after cooking in

my current kitchen for the last 17 years, I am really looking forward to LOTs of counter space, so just a little greedy I guess.

Warm regards,

Usha

Sorry, I missed the window! How about splitting one window into two? Flank the cooktop & hood with windows - but have a solid wall directly behind the cooktop & hood.

Counter space...no, it doesn't reduce the amount of usable counterspace. You have:

• Island - 9' minus the prep sink (21" to 24" or so)
• Space b/w the cooktop & range - several feet
• Space b/w the sink and pantry - the dish storage is base cabinets and upper cabinets w/counterspace b/w...there will be several feet there!

Here is the updated plan !

1) We added the walk in pantry and increased the mudroom width as suggested here

The stove is now across from the long end of the island, by the north wall. We have planned for a 48" exhaust hood with return air on the stove, the capacity

is 1100 cfms, I forget the brand (Best ?).

2) We moved the sink to where the stove was previously (by the east wall).

3) Also moved the wall of window to the east wall, above sink. While the view is not great, it will allow for some morning sun to warm our kitchen. DH, was also able to plan for two solar tubes which can be added through our bedroom closet on the second floor that will somehow light up the countertop by the east wall.

4) Our KD suggested adding a narrow set of base cabinets (12" wide) to the south wall of the kitchen. We will use these cabinets to store additional plates/disposables that will only be required during large get togethers. Since our kitchen does not have any uppers, this additional storage seems desirable.

This still leaves us with 48" of aisle space behind the island seating and 48" in front of the stovetop. If we want to increase this aisle width, we will have to lose the 12" cabinets on the opposite wall. In our current kitchen, we have 36" on the prep side of the island where my DH and I work together and 48" seems like a luxury (but should we be planning for 52 ?)

5) We kept the 6 seats on the island : I forgot to mention that my parents visit us every year for a couple of months ( its common among first generation South east Asian Indians) so the additional seating will be used frequently. Also, I would like to keep my 6 year old away from our upholstered dining table as much as possible for the time being so we will primarily eat in the kitchen during the week.

6) The new plan allows for a 6' X6' walk in pantry (THANKS Karenseb !)

7) The laundry in the mudroom will be our primary laundry, I have a second one in my basement that I would like to decommission once the addition is built. My parents bedroom is in the same floor and it will not be practical for them to climb up the stairs to do their laundry for the 2-3 months/ year they are with us.

8) I have a broom closet in the mudroom (Yay !) and a catch all/message center/phone recharging on the west wall when we walk into the kitchen (THANKS Buehl !).

8) I just noticed that the new plan does not incorporate the additional length in the

island; since DH is making the island countertop, we can add that later. The 90 degree /right angle corners are also not indicated , will ask KD to update.

9) One concern: The new plan has the oven located on the far left of the north wall. Would it look strange if we extend the wall on the west end so the oven is not exposed even with the oven door open ? Or am I just making it hard to get things in and out of the oven ? Would it be better to swap the oven and refrigerator ?

10) Our KD suggested adding a row of piano windows on the north wall to allow for

some natural light. Is this worth the expense in your opinion ?

9) I do have a house plan relating to the new kitchen, will dig it out and post next.

Regards,

Usha

Nice improvements!

Not everyone likes angled corner base cabinets, but I have one, and love it. I like the full circle super susan, and since my cabinets were custom built, I was able to add a drawer to the top.

I think adding a freezer to the mud room would make the laundry area feel really cramped, the way its drawn. I think you'd be better off putting the WD and freezer along the outside wall, with the freezer at the end. Presumably that's the thing you'll use the least - it doesn't require such prime real estate. You now may have space to put a laundry basket in front of the freezer, to get it out of the way.

Follow up : Something does not feel right about the refrig/oven positioning.

The baking zone seems too small to be of any practical use besides placing steaming hot pots from the oven.

How about I place oven where the refrigerator is in the plan and move the refrigerator to the north wall corner by the entrance to the kitchen (marked in blue in

my plan below). This will give me

48" of baking zone space, accommodate my kitchenaid mixer and prevent the refrig from blocking the aisle/prep zone

Usha

Thanks AnnKH,

That freezer is one of the main reasons we had to re-do our kitchen plans. I freeze a lot of tomatoes/sauces/ base for stews that I then use over the week; and perishable grains and nuts. I freeze portions of meals as well. So the freezer needs to be easily accessible.

I see what you meant about the cramped mudroom but DH does not want to lose another foot of space from the kitchen and since we share the kitchen space pretty equally I dont have the necessary equity in this case to override him :)

I could re-size the broom closet to line up better with the freezer.....not sure if it

will make any tangible difference.

Regards,

Usha