Purple Crown

Red Champion

Thanks for looking.

Tyler

Wow, I agree that doesn't look good does it? I've never seen root rot either so I really hope it isn't. Are those actually holes in the caudex of the second plant, it looks like something has bored into it? Are there any areas that feel softer than you would think is normal, or is there any obvious smell? Something isn't right is it.

I'm sure someone will join in and talk about what's going on.

Gill

Ouch.... I've only had one plant with root rot, and had to cut more than half of the caudex away. Painful to see, you must send these pictures to the seller Tyler!

Cut 2 cms above the brown part. You may have to use either a very sharp cleaver or a chef's knife to make those cuts---try for one quick whacking blow. Slicing motions just rip fibers from side to side. Then just hang them for the rest of the winter. Or at least a couple of months to completely callous over.

Oh. BTW, yes, that is root death. I am betting it froze in cargo transit.

Pagan

Thank you Gill, Conny and Pagan.

Gill, it's not a deep bored hole, but a slight one like something poked it and it discolored. I didn't notice any discernible odor, but it definitely does feel squishy.

Conny, I emailed the seller immediately last night just to give her a heads up. She did reply and said to send pictures within 2 days which I did this morning once I got to work with better lighting. She's in Taiwan though so probably hasn't seen the photos yet. I'm hoping she'll make good on it.

Pagan, thanks for the surgery info. I need to make a trip to the nursery anyway for the "Kangaroots" product to get the one healthy one to a good start. I've read on this forum where people dust with cinnamon or fungicide. Should I use one or the other or just cut & hang to dry?

Thank you,

Tyler

Those are your trees from Rinoa? I had one of similar as this out of quite a few and sent off a photo the day I opened the box. She was very good about it and replaced. Do not get into a cut and fix effort w the rotten trees. You need replacements.

If I remember it was only last week Wed./Thurs. that the trees where sent and for this number of days they would not rot unless they where sent effected already. Also, you should not have to pay more for shipping of the new ones.

I do not mean to cause negativity toward them, but they have a big business going and many staff. This can lead to more issues with trees and problems not recognized prior to shipping.

They have quite strict guidelines when you order. If your trees are held up once at customs for weeks, then they will not be held responsible for lost plants. This is not the case and the 2 rotten trees should be replaced w no cost including reshipping of them.

I am sure that it will be rectified.

Rick

Hello Tyler! I think you can send those pictures to Rinoa, maybe she can replace the plants, I've heard that she usually do that.

Thank you Rick & Cynthia.

Rick, yes those are the trees from Rinoa and they were sent last Tuesday October 25th. Impressed with the delivery time since they got stateside, through Customs, and to me 7 days after shipping.

I don't think it happened in transit either but some time prior to packing. Possibly a quality control training issue with staff.

However, I also am not up on the weather between Taiwan and here this past week so maybe the pkg got left out to freeze on some dock along the way.

I do want to try to save them if I can, but don't feel I should have to settle for these. I hope Rinoa is true to her word and reputation and will send replacements at NO additional cost to me. So, fingers crossed.

Cynthia, yes, I sent her the pictures this morning. Just waiting to hear and staying positive.

I'm going to follow Pagan's advice and slice and hang. Nothing to lose by trying.

I'll be sure to update on the progress of each.

Thank you,

Tyler

Ok, all whacked, hung and cinnamoned poor things. I cut off quite a bit in order to get down to pure white tissue. So disappointed.

On to potting up Purple Magic, the one perfect plant out of the three.

Red Champion

Before:

After:

Purple Crown

Before:

After:

Hmmmm... SO! Purple Magic. I was so concerned about the root rot, I didn't even bother to pay attention to the tops. The graft has 3 "stems" and one of them is kind of shriveled. Each stem is about 8.5-9 inches long. The top 1.5-2 inches of one is shriveled. Maybe it's just dehydrated and will plump back up but it's looking like it my just dry up altogether. At least the top 2 inches. Good thing there are 2 more. Pay no mind to the grandkids snacks in the background.

Not so sure about this ordering plants from Rinoa in Taiwan stuff. My 1st experience is not looking good so far. A LOT is going to depend on whether she clarifies her reply regarding the buyer being responsible for shipping for returned plants.

That stem doesn't look good either to me. I would investigate it by cutting off a small portion, if ok, just let it dry and all should be well, but I wouldn't hold my breath as I think you may find that it too is showing signs of rot. I think there's more going on than just plain thirst in that one....hope not though.

Sorry to see confirmation that the others have root rot. From what I've read, Rinoa is fair and should stand the cost of replacements for you. Hope it all works out, keep us updated please.

Gill

Thanks, Gill.

I sent Rinoa pictures of the shriveled stem. I'll see what she says. So far, no go on replacements on the root rot plants though. She replied to my email on that issue. According to Rinoa, it is the policy of Orient Adenium that:

1. They shipped the plants in good condition.
2. What happens during shipping is out of their control.
3. They will replace the plants, however I have to pay the additional shipping costs.
4. If that is not agreeable to me, Orient Adenium will refund the cost of the plants.

Well, clearly, I won't be throwing good money after bad so I've requested a refund. I'll see if she refunds the cost of all 3 plants or just the 2.

A few of you have said that when you purchased from Rinoa, if after receiving your plants you discovered issues, as long as you sent the photographic proof within 2 days of receipt, the plants were replaced AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE to you. At least, that was my understanding.

Not so in my case. Not sure what the difference is. Maybe just a tightening up of their policy due to too many losses and hits to their profit margin?

This is unfortunate. As you all know, I've only recently discovered adenium plants and am excited about growing my collection. I know many of you prefer the caudex and plant over the flowers. My preference is the flowers and Rinoa/Orient Adenium has many gorgeous flowers. However, after this experience, Rinoa is 0 for 3 in my book and I won't be purchasing from her again.

If you decide to purchase from Rinoa/Orient Adenium, maybe you will be fortunate enough that all of your plants will arrive well and healthy but if not, just know what to expect going into it.

Tyler

Not the reply that was to be expected. As others have said: it's as good as impossible that the rot started after the plants were shipped since you received them so quickly. Unless they were stored in a freezer unit somewhere along the way...

For what it's worth: I bought a couple of plants from adeniumcenter a few months ago. They were all very healthy. Perhaps somewhere to look next time.

Tyler,

I can understand your frustration and disappointment.

As I had mentioned. I had a plant replaced and I was faced with having to repay for shipping of a new plant. For this, I do not agree with. In both our situations, these plants making it from shipping country to our doorstep within 7 days and having rot should not happen. Ordering plants in the Fall is always a dubious time with cooler conditions, but I do not believe that this is the case with the extent of rot to your plants.

On the down side, we take this on ordering plants, as has been stated in their policy that replacement cost will be refunded, but shipping is responsibility of purchaser or refund.

I have ordered 20+ plants from them and just the one w issues. This one was replaced.

They do sell quality plants and are one of the best to buy from. I would buy still, but best times are from April - July.

Rick

Tyler these plants were not shipped in good condition ( all 3) she should send new plants with no cost this is bad I to will not buy again there are other places to buy

Roger

I was thinking of buying plants from there also but now I don't know. The seeds I've purchased were okay so I guess I will stick with her seeds. I'm sorry this happened Tyler.

Wispy

Thanks for the support everyone. Misery lives company. lol. Maybe it was just a fluke that happened to happen to me. If someone else can benefit and not have to go through this or at least know what to expect, then I'll take one for the team. Well, at least it'll help me keep my collection in check!

Question on my 2 amputees: Are there any specific requirements as to the ideal atmosphere for them to callous over? Lighting? Temperature? Air movement?

Also, on the one with the shriveled tip, can rot also start at the top? ...and work its way down? When I cut it, what am I looking for?

Thank you,

Tyler

Yes Tyler, rot can most certainly start at the tip of a branch and travel downwards...my reason for suggesting you excise the tip to see what's going on.

You will have to cut away sections till you reach clean and solid white/green tissue with no brown staining. It could all be brown as you cut more off, and then it sometimes shows as a 'ring of stain' as you get nearer the good material. Use a sterile very sharp craft knife or similar, wipe with alcohol between each and every cut, else you can just keep transferring instead of ridding the problem. So just cut small portions off, just as I imagine you've done with the roots.

Let us know what happens with the branch please? I've done tip pruning through shrivelled tips and cut off about 1 cm in total, but this does look to have progressed further. I dabbed with kitchen towel till dry and finally with a small amount of cinnamon and they did just fine. If in doubt, cut even further, its not worth the risk of leaving it to chance, they can and will bounce back if nodes are left for regrowths.

Sorry, can't give specifics on temps, air etc, my conditions are so drastically different :-/ Good luck.

Gill

Will do, Gill. Thank you so much for the advice.

Tyler

Yikes, sorry this happened to you. Hopefully the plants respond well to the surgery and it won't be a total loss.

Tyler, I hope you have a hygrometer. In any case, make sure that after they have been cut and cleaned, they are hung in the driest, airiest location you can find. By dry, I mean something below 40 percent humidity--the drier the better. Occasionally you should air them out (like, open a window for a few minutes). No light or additional heat is necessary until you decide to pot them up. Personally, I'd wait a couple of months.

Don't worry, hung this way, they are safer than planting them. If you decide to try and root them before summer, you will need a lot of heat. And a lot of light. Basically, you need to make summer for them. It's not impossible but if you're not set up for it, it can be annoying.

Make sure you follow Gill's instruction---cut until you see white, unblemished tissue. If you are patient, you can make this work.

Pagan

Hey, Pagan. Actually, no I don't. Does licking my finger and sticking it up in the air count? (I crack myself up!) Last night I hung them up in a dark closet in a room that tends to be cold just to keep them out of the way of everyone , but then started thinking it might be too cold, too dark and not enough air movement. I'll find someplace else with more airflow, but don't know what I can really do about humidity. Hopefully it's low enough here to keep mold, mildew and rot from occurring.

It sounds like it's better to wait until it warms up to pot them up. We don't have central heating and while I do have a heating pad, the house overall tends to be cold in the winter (based on what we in San Diego are used to).

I'll be sure to address that stem as soon as I get home today.

Thank you,

Tyler

Tyler,

Thank you for sharing. I'm really sorry to see you dealing with this. It's one thing to have this occur with one plant ... but 2 of 3? No, this is disgraceful. There is zero justification for any merchant when a customer has to take to hacking away at newly purchased plants.

I have shipped large cacti of all varieties all over the US in the dead of winter with no heating coils and never had any such thing happen to me. These either left the point of origin in bad condition or were inappropriately packaged. In any event, the merchant should take responsibility ... It's just good business practice!

I sincerely hope this is a one time shot and you never have to experience this again. And I certainly hope you get something in the form of a viable branch out of all this. I wish you well.

Maria Elena

Thank you Maria Elena.

Yes, you're right. Poor customer service. Had Rinoa/Orient Adenium chosen to go about this differently, I would definitely be a repeat customer and treat myself to new plants periodically. However, due to their business practices, in my case, anyway, I will never buy from them again.

The total cost of the plants was $45 and shipping $35 for 3 plants. Because they didn't want to eat the cost of replacing the damaged plants and the shipping, they've lost what would've been a loyal customer. Short term gain in favor of long term loss.

I'd imagine they produce plants in the hundreds (of each variety) if not thousands so no matter what they are charging us for them, you know they are making a profit, so how about investing in a little good will (not to mention doing the right thing) and replace the plants and pay for the shipping?

Clearly, they aren't hurting for business and don't need my money so don't need to invest in making me feel valued me as a customer. While I don't mind spending the money if it's something I really want and within reason, I can't justify the risk of wasting money when the outcome is so uncertain.

If I buy the plants and then manage to kill them, well, that's on me, but to pay what their asking price is and to receive inferior merchandise is unacceptable to me.

It's a shame, really and now I'm just hoping that I can salvage something of what remains of the pieces of plants that are leftover and that Rinoa/Orient Adenium make good on their refund policy.

Honestly, though, I'd rather have the plants.

Tyler

Regarding the Purple Magic with the shriveled stem I cut it little by little with a razor blade being sure to wipe with alcohol after each cut. I wound up cutting off about 4 inches until I finally got down to clean green & white tissue with no trace of brown showing and dabbed the stub with a paper towel although no sap was really flowing. Just a few little spots. Hopefully that's the end of it. The plant is currently in a south facing window that gets bright, filtered light and besides the pre-potting soak in Kangaroots, it has not been watered.

Tyler

I really feel sorry for you Tyler. And I agree: this is not a good advert for Rinoa.

You might want to put some cinnamon powder or Elmer's glue on that pruned stem.

Thank you, Connie.

Yes, I did put cinnamon on it shortly after taking the picture. I just wanted to show the hopefully healthy tissue that I had cut down to.

Well, when I checked my email this morning I saw that I had two emails from Rinoa. Orient Adenium did provide me with a refund, but, in light of everything else surrounding this experience, it should come as no surprise that instead of refunding the cost for all 3 plants, she opted to only refund the cost of 2.

For the 3rd she "graciously" provided me with pruning instructions for "cutting off the rotten part". Pruning instructions. Drawing a line on my photograph to illustrate where to "cut off"...for a brand new plant.

If I as the buyer chose to prune a newly purchased plant for branching and aesthetics, then that should my option. It shouldn't be required as a lifesaving measure in order for the plant to survive. Uhhh...yeah...

Thanks to the helpful instructions I received from Gill and Pagan, I had actually already cut at around the same place that Rinoa indicated. I wound up cutting just a bit past where Rinoa showed because I wasn't comfortable with the color. Still some shades of tannish/cream instead of pure green and white.

Thank you,

Tyler

Thank you, Rick.

Well said. Maybe coming from you, a long time buyer and established customer who has purchased a large quantity of plants from her, it will make more of an impression than anything from me, some new customer who only purchased 3 measly plants.

I appreciate the sentiment but I do still have 18 plants in my collection, including the 3 I just purchased. I also have 10 seedlings and young plants from the seeds I sowed in August.

This is turning out to be a HUGE learning experience for me in more ways than one. Not only have I had the experience in dealing with an overseas seller and all the issues that can potentially bring, I'm also learning how to deal with severe root rot and tip rot during the Winter and the challenges they will bring in my attempt to successfully get those plants through the healing process and thriving come the Spring. Not something I was looking for to having to deal with, yet here it is before me, so I have no choice. There is something to be gained by having these experiences so soon in my new hobby.

Thankfully I have you all for information and advice. I surely couldn't do it without you.

Thank you for the support.

Tyler

Tyler I have real good dealings with King Adenium even replacing damaged plants that was not there fault

roger

Thank you, Roger.

Can you forward me their website link or email address, please?

Connie, I saw your post earlier in this thread regarding Adeniumcenter. Can I have their info, as well? I think I was still to frustrated to ask you for it at that time.

Thank you.

Tyler

Hi Tyler, no problem. I have ordered through their Ebay site. But I believe they also have their own website, just look for Adenium Center (Thailand). Will look up their website for you tomorrow when I'm back behind my laptop.

Tyler ... A hug!

Tyler! This is Adenium center link to their website

http://www.adeniumcenter.com/index.html

this is from king Adenium

http://kingadenium.net/index.html

Both are on eBay also...

Wow.... I'm sorry Tyler, I can't believe what I see.... I'll msg Rinoa too, that is not acceptable business practices, she should definitely look at quality of service and re-educate her workers. Even my eBay plants arrived in a great condition, and I ordered around 20 from different sellers. Pls don't be discouraged. Well, looking at the bright side, there's a winter cactus and succulent show this weekend in LA Arboretum, they do have grafted adeniums. :)

Hi all. I just placed an order with Adenium Center. Fingers crossed!! I'm really sorry about your plants Tyler but what you posted here has helped me also. I really liked Rinoas plants but what happened to you was not right.

Wispy

Thank you everybody. Hugs back.

Hey Wispy.

You're welcome and good luck. Yes, the pictures of Rinoa's plants are beautiful. Yours is one sale she's lost already.

In reading through all of the many different forum posts and threads going way back to the beginning, I have seen many cases where people follow the adenium forum and "lurk" in the background before finally making themselves known. There may be some others who just continue to follow and watch. And from many different countries. There may be others who at some point read this thread who are on the fence about purchasing from Rinoa and because of my experience opt to spend their money with someone else. We (and Rinoa) will never know.

Clearly I have not set out to slam Rinoa's business. That was why I chose to NOT name her or her business name in the subject line of this thread. Only after Rick specifically asked me did I admit who the seller was. I'm only relaying my experience.

Additionally, the reason I opted to order from Rinoa was due to all of the positive feedback both posted in threads and privately by members of this forum. Had it not been for that, I still would be hanging back afraid to take that leap of faith for fear of something exactly like this happening. From everything I've read about other people's positive experiences and now their reaction to mine, this seems very odd, indeed. But it only takes one person's posted negative experience to make potential customers think twice.

I just want people to know both sides of actual occurrences of things that have happened so that they can make an informed decision and decide for themselves if it is worth the risk.

Ultimately, Rinoa and Orient Adenium may be making money hand over fist so the specter of potential lost sales may not matter to them, but in business, reputation means a lot.

Tyler

I don't feel you have done anything wrong. With her seeds I had great germination and seedlings but plants are another story. I will continue the seed orders but opt to get plants elsewhere. Thanks for the review.

Wispy

Wow Tyler, I'm sorry, just now seeing this. I was going to order a cple in the spring but now I'm rethinking. Although I do have those seeds coming any day from her.