This looks like an older home? I would say no - if you want an open floor plan house go for newer construction. It wouldn't work in this house.

You want to open up the kitchen to what room?

you want to open the wall into the DR but want to keep the FP??? lol. How?

what's on the other side of the kitchen? what if it's load baring you want to remove? Are you willing to pay the extra money for support? Is this the only construction you would want to do? The kitchen isn't a bad size, if you remove that eat-in island. If everything else is a go, but the 'open concept' is the only no, then either learn to do without it, lose the fireplace (or relocate it) or find a new house!

That dining room is adorable. I would not change it at all.

The kitchen, without that big table thingy, and with a counter depth fridge built in, perhaps where that desk part of the cabinets are.

I have never had an eat in kitchen. The dining room is only a few steps away...

Hi S Mistry Interiors - I would want to open the kitchen into the dining room (photo attached). It looks to me like the kitchen was an addition at some point so the back of the fireplace is on the wall with the fridge and oven.

You could make the opening between the kitchen and dining a little bigger, but there is no way to make this open concept without removing the fireplace. Plus, since that used to be an exterior wall, you should assume that the wall is load-bearing and will require extra expense to support. This home was not made to be open concept and I think it should stay that way. I would look for another house if that is something you need. I do think the kitchen could be redone to be more functional and be quite nice, but still not open.

I don't think the home is conducive to opening up those rooms to each other. It's an older home with character. The kitchen can look bigger with a built in fridge and removing the island. But it doesn't look like you can open them up without removing the fireplace.

You can definitely relocate the fridge and stove to other walls, but you would lose the fireplace by taking wall down. Or you can simply widen the opening and not make it completely open.

What is the recessed portion of the wall by the French door? Can that end be opened, gutted and incorporated in your new design? I think once you gut it all and remove the island, expanding into that recess and closet/pantry or whatever is on that end, you'll be surprised at how roomy the kitchen can become. Take cabinets to the ceiling, and use a counter depth fridge which stays near the sink for ease of offloading foods to be prepped. Is that a window AC in the dining room? Leave $$$ in the budget for installing central air or a mini-split system. If you love the house after viewing it, you might get another appointment to take a kitchen expert in to give you a new plan. I'd forget opening it to the DR though. Open some other part of the house like the DR and LR.

You will have to lose the fireplace to open up THIS kitchen....but if you REALLY must open up a kitchen, can you put it SOMEWHERE ELSE? Can you convert another room to be the kitchen?

Moving a kitchen is an AMAZING project with a MASSIVE budget and horrendous disruption....but it might be possible (with enough money...anything is possible). I don't know if you would want to "live" through it...I certainly wouldn't. And having a baby added into the mix and you could experience the most intense year of your life (or longer...older homes are like a treasure chest of surprises). And by "intense" I mean "hideous".

The character of the home probably does not lend itself to changing the kitchen location...but you've only loaded one set of photos so it is too hard to tell.

The kitchen is a big enough space for a massive renovation without opening up the wall. A full renovation on the kitchen with a talented Kitchen Designer will certainly optimize the space available.

You will need to make a choice between an open kitchen and the fireplace. Have fun and don't try to make these old beauties into modern behemoths. Independent rooms have value unto themselves. Open-floor plans are not all they are cracked up to be. Look to a full kitchen renovation without removing a wall. Not all homes are destined to be "open floor plans".

Exactly! What is on the other side of the kitchen? The kitchen can be made very functional and open by a complete redo.

Cancork.....could you please comment on this thread??? go down to the bottom where floors are mentioned. thanks!!

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/color-of-wood-floors-dsvw-vd~4325916

I like Cancorks suggestion.

widen the doorway to the DR and get a full kitchen remodel. Leave the FP as is. Open Concept is not all it's cracked up to be (we still don't know whats on the other side of this kitchen). What Cancork said thought.

I think it's very smart to open yourself up to comments prior to looking at it...

From what I can see, 2 walls are "occupied" (fireplace and stairs) and 2 walls are outside walls.

This would be a massive project for you and I'm guessing you're young and want "open concept".....I'm not sure this house is for you.

Of course, you could go and look at it and fall totally in love with it, but know that it is what it is without a great deal of money that you could add to your house-buying budget.

FWIW, I think the island is too big for the kitchen. It's overwhelming. That would be something you could change pretty easily and straight away.

You have to be the kind of person to love an older house the way it is....and be pleasantly surprised when things can be changed somewhat...

Thank you everyone! To answer a few questions and clarify a few of my points:

• Desire for open concept comes from having a baby (and probably one or two more). I'd love to be able to be able to see my little guy while I'm in the kitchen. S Mistry/Emily Jowers - I love the idea of opening up the existing passage. In your experience, would it be possible to open it up to match the ceiling height?
• Decoenthusiaste - I believe that French door leads to the backyard! Your thoughts on gutting/size are reassuring. I think if we could incorporate some of these ideas about opening the space within the limits of the structure (meaning, keep the fireplace) I could really make the space work! I also like your idea about oopening LR to DR instead.
• Beth H - I'm not sure how - hoping someone has an awesome idea! :)

Cancork - thank you! I love your descriptors. :) As I child of parents who loved to do additions and remodeling while we all lived in the house - I have a bit of shell shock remaining. Good to know that in your expert opinion you feel the kitchen could be large enough without removing walls/moving the kitchen.

Pennydesign - you've got me pinned! I'm in limbo regarding my design preferences. I have a total obsession with older homes but the open concept layout really appeals to our current needs with little babies running around!

Thanks Linda - to those who have a better idea of how these older homes function I have a question. In so many of them, we see the kitchen is an addition. Where was the kitchen prior to these add ons? Just curious!

Many original kitchens were rooms with a cook stove, kitchen table, large sink, either on legs or hung on the wall, and a few shelves or cabinets. That space has often been extended by closing in a porch or taken over for use as a bathroom, laundry room or mud room when a regular kitchen addition was constructed. Without any more photos, I'm just guessing but I would say that house is within a decade either side of 1895.

It is a guess but the back door and back stairs are probably original and the kitchen extended into a back porch. If there's a main floor bath or laundry, it was probably placed in conjunction with rearranging the kitchen entrances. I love going through old houses and trying to figure out the original layouts with the clues from window location, flooring changes, ages of doors, windows, trim, fixtures. Sometimes it is obvious like the house we did where the original dining room window remained after the porch was enclosed for additional kitchen space.

In large older houses, the kitchens may have been big, just with freestanding furniture instead of today's built-in cupboards. Most storage would probably have been in a pantry and possibly a cellar.

Remember that people have been raising children in that house for over a century, without an open plan. You may need to adapt your lifestyle to fit in with the house as that is much easier to do than living through a remodel with a toddler. Babies are easier to contain but before you are ready, that curious child will be getting into lots of places. You might just find that a specific space with a doorway actually works quite well whether to keep the child in the kitchen or out of the kitchen.

People had kids in older homes with closed concept. And we all lived through it. You can still have a family without an open concept house. In fact, you will really appreciate being able to shut the door and contain the chaos and noise rather than finding no respite from it.

My kids are 3 and 5. The keeping an eye on them while cooking never really happens. They end up running around in the kitchen as soon as they could move. And when they are babies, you won't have time to set them down while cooking. Nice concept, just isn't reality. Sometimes I curse my open floor plan!

very awesome points Linda, live..., and Mistry.

Linda thank you so much for your expertise!!!

The dining room is great, I wouldn't mess with it. The kitchen looks large enough without that table or ? In it. Remodel the kitchen within the confines or look for another house. IMO.... location trumps everything. I've ALWAYS bought for location, never regretted it. Linda & S Misty make valid points.

Those look like stairs next to the French door? So I'm not sure how much flexibility you'd have on that wall. I would try to visualize the kitchen without the center island. It would make a huge improvement. My concern would be the stove placement, which seems to be peeking out on the left of the fridge? With the island removed and the the appliances/counters reconfigured a bit this seems like it would be a pretty functional kitchen for a house of its age. And you would actually get use out of the dining room, which in many houses is suboptimized.

It couldn't be opened up easily while you are living there with a baby. If the fireplace wall is an original outside wall, you'd have to replace that loadbearing outside wall with a steel beam. Very expensive and very messy.

The kitchen's island looks like you could put a high chair at one end, but then any parent feeding a kid in a high chair would have to sit on a stool blocking the traffic on either side. Most kids and parents congregate at the kitchen table or island. This kitchen with its island in the current place doesn't look big enough for two parents and a baby to eat meals at the island. It may be possible to remove the island and put in a small table up against the fireplace wall.

The simple, low $$$ approach:

1) Keep layout as is

2) Tweak kitchen for better function (change fridge etc.)

3) Remove huge table from kitchen and replace with very small table where you can sit while feeding baby or for quick meals for 1 or 2

4) Rearrange DR (while baby is young) for a play place (and toy storage) right outside kitchen, and move table to permit this

Or, choose a different house!

Are you a very neat cook? Do you clean up as you go or leave all the pots and pans for later? When you have company, is your kitchen always picked up and presentable?
I am a messy cook, often cooking a multitude of dishes for company, and an open kitchen is the last thing I need.
Maybe you should revisit the open kitchen idea or bring in an architect or recommended contractor to tell you if the fireplace and chimney can be saved if you only open up the doorway and remove the small closet (if there is anything to gain by losing the closet).
The charm of the original home may be lost if you remove the fireplace.

What a beautiful dining room! In all this discussion of "moving" the fireplace, I wonder if you consider that if it is a century home, there will be a foundation for the chimney in the basement and the chimney will stretch up through the upstairs through the attic. Are you prepared to take out the entire chimney, too? This would mean destruction over several floors. Remember, this is not a modern fireplace with a metal chimney. I'd embrace the beauty of this lovely home, or move on to one that embodies the characteristics that you value.

Amanda, so how did the showing go? Did you guys like the house?

Amanda...what's the latest??

Hi Everyone! I quick update: Armed with all of your advice and suggestions I met my realtor at the home and fell in love with the porch - only to have the owner answer and tell us that they had cancelled with their realtor. We parted ways and when I checked in yesterday - our realtor said that the owners have changed their mind and will reconsider whether or not they want to relist in a few weeks. Kind of heartbroken... another Ideabook with a silly reference to a future home goes out the window.

That being said... we have something else cooking that I'm going to see tomorrow. Its an off market home, built in 1928 that hasn't been lived in for about a year but apparently has some updates (A/C). I've only seen very limited photos. My realtor walked through very briefly and said that every surface will need to be touched but it seems that it may not be like "the other house". The Other House refers to a beautiful home we saw, loved, walked through with a contractor and he told us we'd be looking at a year MINIMUM before it would be ready. Needless to say, that project was not for us at this point in our lives.

I'd be happy to keep this thread updated! I feel like the best of Houzzers have gathered here! Thanks everyone! :)

Oh bummer! You will find your perfect home.

Good luck. Be patient. You will find the right home. It doesn't seem like it now, I know...but trust us. We all have been there... and we understand. Can't wait to see what you choose. Please let us know!

Would it be possible to add another room, like a family room, on to the kitchen to make it more open? That way you wouldn't need to disturb the main rooms and the fireplace. The kitchen looks like it needs gutting anyway.

Hope it comes back on the market for you.

If you really like the look of the house, go knock on the door or leave a note for the homeowners. Tell them that you might be interested in buying the home and ask them to contact you. Chances are you won't end up buying the house from that approach, but it is certainly possible. If you can reach a deal with the sellers, you don't need real estate agents involved. Go directly to a lawyer and discuss the contract issues with him. I don't know whether the seller would owe commission on the sale but since you didn't actually get to view the house while it was covered by a listing agreement.

Alternative approaches to buying a house can work so don't dismiss the idea out of hand. Decades ago, my boyfriend (now husband) was moving to a midwestern city for employment. He went out with an agent but didn't really see anything he loved. The company owner invited him to his house for dinner and hubby commented to him that of all the houses he had seen, the owner's house was the one he liked best. The following day, the owner approached him and asked if he was serious because he and his wife had discussed the idea and were interested in pursuing the sale. Hubby ended up buying the house and renting it back to the previous owners while their new home was being built.

Not one post mentioned cost and can you afford? It. It is now the peak of the housing market and you are paying top dollar. Interest are rising home prices will follow by dropping. Don't buy it IMO......

The house looks like a well maintained vintage home. This is not the best idea if you are on a budget. It will be a very extensive and costly project.

Hi Team -

We walked through another home a few times over the weekend. The bones of this home and property are gorgeous but we know this one will be project. We met with an architect to walk through today to get a ballpark budget and timeline as well as an idea if what we want to do with the home is even possible. From Houzz reviews and from what we have heard around town - this firm is very "high end". While we absolutely would love to work with someone with the experience that this woman brings to the table, she confided in our realtor that essentially, she doesn't think she's the person for the job. I respect her honesty. But also wondering - any advice on finding an affordable yet knowledgable architect?

Based on the numbers presented by the woman we met with today - we placed on an offer on the home knowing that:

1.) We will be able to work on this house and make it a forever (or long time) home

2.) We will not be able to do everything all at once, and we're ok with that

3.) We will not be able to live in the home for at least 5 months while we get it to a place where it is safe and healthy to have our baby there.

4.) We cannot afford the person who gave us a quote today but we know that there are architects who may not present such as such a shiny package (if that makes sense) but they will still provide quality results.

Any thoughts?

Put the fridge where the stools are to the left of the sink, then you can widen doorway to include where the fridge is now. You can probably punch through on the other side too, but you will still have the fireplace, which probably also vents your furnace. It is not worth removing. Redesign and go for a partial open, or move kitchen to the DR altogether

Read the thread! They didn’t get the the house!

We bought a very old home here on Cape. Built in 1840. Over the years, a few things had been done. But, I wish nothing had been. . Nothing was code; one thing led to another; it was an eye opener, for sure. Make sure you have an emergency fund for those unexpected hiccups.

We also had to rent while the work was going on. Factor that into your budget, as well. No reno is finished on time. So, make sure you have a month or two of leeway with the rental.Just a word of warning…often remodeling is more expensive than new build.

Not trying to dissuade you at all. Nothing more satisfying than completing your project. Good luck.

We never have used an architect. There is an engineering firm in town who has a talented draftsman in their employ. She is amazing. The firm makes it all work out…right down to the septic. The cost for her drawings was a fraction of what the architect was going to charge.

We have used her for renovations; new construction; designing garages….perfect, every time.

UPDATE (Part 1 of 2): We heard from our realtor today and long story short, we should hear good news tomorrow morning. The style of this home is a steep departure from what I was looking for but the location more than makes up for it in this instance. This home was built in 1960 and the architect of the home is the seller, which is very neat to me! I'm having trouble with (no surprise) the kitchen! Luckily, the style that would keep the home staying true to the era may allow for a bit more of an open floor plan if needed. Here's what the kitchen looks like:

Obvious plus is that we get this amazing appliances!

Obvious challenge is that there is exactly one cabinet of storage (I don't see the wire rack or island as real baby-proof storage at this point in our life) and very limited counter space, especially after we factor in the small appliances we use daily (coffee maker, Vitamix, toaster oven).

Here's how the kitchen fits into the rest of the first floor:

Two bedrooms, one we plan to use as a guest room and the other office space, and a full bathroom complete this floor. I would like to include in this open space a dining room and some type of hang out space for my little guy and I to use during the day or where we can host when we don't want to go to the family room (basement).

We are meeting with a kitchen designer tomorrow but I would like to be prepared with some ideas around possible arrangements, the potential post of moving appliances, any inspiration you have for a home of this style. Any ideas?

Thanks everyone :)

The big plus about this (amazing) house is that you have lots of room both in the kitchen and in the room behind where the fridge is that you might be able to borrow to reconfigure. It kind of looks like they plonked in a few kitchen pieces to prove that it is actually a kitchen rather than renovated to create a working kitchen. Which is not necessarily a bad thing for you. i.e. you get the space, the appliances and a more or less blank slate to work with and a working sink and stove until you figure it out. I would pick the owner/architect's brain re structure, electrical and plumbing chases etc and then hire a kitchen designer to create what you want.

PS can you post some exterior pix to give an indication of the style and era of the house?

Is it really that much space in the kitchen - once you start adding cabinets, will it be as large as you think. I assume upper cabinets will be added. There will be a need to move the stove from the corner. In your kitchen design, you'd need to think about where to put your groceries as you bring them in from the store - you'd need to think about getting more than one item out of the fridge - where do you place them. There's two big windows in the space, that also limit upper cabinetry.

I confess to some confusion. On one hand, you want a "dining space", and a place to go to be cozy "with the little guy" without going to a family room in the basement! Why would you need to go to a basement here? The home has clearly been opened up over the years, evidenced by the expanse of header!

Children get raised in TENTS in some parts of the world : ) In a few short years you're simply looking for the best school system in any given locale, which coincidentally usually also means the home with the most resale potential.

To really change the kitchen and storage, might mean a bit of window re working at the sink, and the cabinetry does not suit the stye of the house in any scenario ( nor does the stair rail) . Typical of sixties home, the entrance at kitchen appears quite cramped, think forward to little friends and backpacks. I'd continue to ponder and refine your wish list before you leap.

OUR OFFER HAS BEEN ACCEPTED! WOOHOO!

mramsey: Yes! I thought the same thing about the plonking of appliances! Its strange because the appliances look as though the family cared about cooking (Viking pro fridge and Thermador stove/oven - we could never afford these on our own) but there's no counter space and one cabinet. Go figure! Here are some exterior photos:

Painting and landscaping (not to mention some gutters and potentially a roof) will take place next year.

shirlpp: Hi! Do you mean that its not going to be must space after cabinetry has been added? I agree! I'm also conscience of the fact that adding anything around that opening at the other end of the kitchen will make it an even more narrow passage. Any ideas?

JAN MOYER: Hi Jan. Thanks for having me clarify - this will be helpful when I meet the kitchen designer this afternoon! So the photos do make the space appear larger than it actually is. I say "dining space" because I don't need a formal dining room but we do have a large family and I CANNOT wait to host Thanksgiving! :) So we would need dining room for 10+ people. The basement is where the family room/living space is located. I imagine that we will need to borrow some room from that large open space near the kitchen. I'm not sure how much - any ideas/inspiration are much appreciated. I also foresee needing some of the open space for storage, as I want to keep as many windows as possible and that would require more storage using base cabinetry. Any thoughts there?

I would re-do the island in kitchen to be smaller. Just doesn't seem like that island/table fits the space. Do you have any option to extend existing exterior walls to add more space? The dining area has charm with the fireplace- I agree with you not wanting to get rid of it.

Em - Hi! So that room with the fireplace is actually downstairs. The second two photos are the living space upstairs. So between the kitchen and the space pictured, I'd like to have a living area, dining area and kitchen.

The more I look at things I think it might be kind of cool to not disrupt any windows, have a huge island with lots of lower cabinet storage and on one end have teh sink, and then other use as a "dining room". Kind of like this:

If this was doable, that would free up space for the oven to move away from the wall and the huge fridge to go on the wall with the chalk board paint. Anyone know about moving appliances and/or sinks in islands?