Was really happy to see your setups Redbeard and Poncirus guy. I have a beautiful 4 lite T5HO setup upstairs in a loft. Each lite is 4 foot x 4 lite, but my expanding plumeria collection has fast outgrown the space. Was eyeing an area of my basement tonight and it looks like it's going to be the next greenhouse. It's 15'x15' area, with the addition of a couple of 4'x 8tube lights, will be perfect. I can enclose the area with mylar and silver tarps. Even have a way of getting a line to a rainwater barrel through a window. Need to add another electrical box to be safe. Will post a photo once I get it set up. But yours are the inspiration.

Gosh I've been pining over a $2300 8x12 Grandio greenhouse for months now but reluctantly letting the dream go. Live on the Oregon coast and between our 85mph wind and limited sunshine it could be money gone with the wind. I can make Hawaii in the basement just fine after seeing your setups.

Have you considered using LED's instead of flourescents? the most expensive part of each light is the reflector, but each bulb puts out 800+ lumens, uses 6w or 9w, last ~4 years/18 hrs per day, and the screw-base bulbs are ~$2 each in the big box stores like HD, etc. You can put quite a few more bulbs on a single line this way.

I'm still working on my 65sf addition to the existing 5 x 5 area, slowed down by a bad shipment of mylar. Next week at this time I hope to have every thing going!

The cfl fluorescent bulbs at 23w (100w equivalent) put out double that at 1600 lumens.

the LEDs that the box stores sell just don't quite have the lumens that the cfls do yet. Even when they're supposed to be equivalent.

Redbeard, I have so many plants that until I can spend a much more on LEDs I need my T5's. I have about 45 plumerias. The T5's have done an excellent job of keeping everything beautiful and growing vigorously, so going to stay with them for now. They also keep the room at 78-80*. But thanks for your input- will keep LEDs in mind.

I'm no expert. I go by the box label, but watt for watt, the LED's efficiency appeals to me, as does the lower heat output in an enclosed space. So, I guess it's a matter of what works best for each grower.....

Thanks!

The led bulbs you have are nothing compaired to the T5HO. I don't mean to offend.

There are some higher end LEDs out there that can get the job done, but the ones sold at the box stores just aren't bright enough. 800 lumens is just not enough.

Folks, led bulbs in the market these days have very misleading specifications. In the early days of CFLs the same thing happened.

Most of the 800 lumens led bulbs are a lot less, especially the cheap ones. For example, a 10W GE daylight bulb says 800 lumens. So it comes out to be 80 lumens per watt (LPW). 80LPW is sort of believable. But it turns out it consumes 8W instead of 10W. That is 100LPW which is unbelievable with the kind of led and technology they use. With the aid of some crude measurements I would say these are throwing out about 600-650 lumens in the 80LPW range. A slight advantage over CFLs that do 70LPW.

LEDs also lose out a bit more because of the plastic diffuser they use to make it look like a regular bulb. Unlike any other bulb, leds throw light in one direction. If you pop the diffuser from a led bulb you will see what I mean. You will also notice how much brighter it is without the diffuser. On top of that most of the light goes towards the plants and you can also do away with the reflector housing. I would not recommend doing this since it can be a safety hazard depending on the bulb manufacturer.

In short, the only way to take advantage of consumer LEDs is to either remove the diffuser from the bulb or get led tubes with clear cover. The advantage will be about 15% savings in energy.

Sorry if this all seems a bit too techy.

While an individual LED bulb may not have the same characteristics and output as a T5HO, it lends itself to applications where flourescents or CFL's wouldn't work for me. I use several LED bulbs of different spectrums together in one area, which provides the higher light level that some of my plants demand. At the moment I have several plant species in bud that demand brighter light, such as albuca, crassula, musa and h.papilio, and they're happy. The advantages of LED's--for me--compared to T5's and CFL'S are:

price per bulb (~$2.50 @HD)
cost of operation
longevity of bulbs--4 years@16 hours/day
heat output

So, this is what works for me, just like your system works for you. It's good to know what technology is out there, and what people's experiments with different systems has produced. It's probably not a great idea to make a blanket statement of unsuitability, especially where a different system is producing decent results for others.

People will generally weigh the alternatives and determine what suits them best, which, for me, is one of the advantages of the GW/Houzz site. We discuss what's of interest what's new, and what does or doesn't work for us, professionals and amateurs alike. Take what you want, leave the rest. Simple.

I'm going to have to look at the diffuser that you mentioned, tropicofcancer, and see if I can remove it. I still use clamp reflector fixtures for my LED's, but they seem to help some. If the reflector makes no difference, I'd gladly do without it.

Thanks!

This is my current setup indoors. 4 racks 4 lights. Now readying the basement to take on this and a couple 4' 8 bulb T5s that I've just purchased. Husband is a fireman so I can plaster all the walls, ceiling and floor with his outdated mylar blankets. Bought a 275 gallon water tank, to collect rainwater, and able to refit a window to accommodate a hose. Going to put my Tommy Bahama chair down there, don my Wayfarers and make like it's a basement Kapalua on the stormy, dark Oregon coast.

Just to note:

you can use different spectrum clfs and tubes just like you're doing with the LEDs.

If it works for your plants, that's fine. Everyone was just giving you info.

Some do what works for them rather than what would work better for their plants. But that's completely fine. To each their own.

rredbbeard: Don't get me wrong. As long as you enjoy what you have is the best situation. Often we go by what the manufacturer says and we then think we are gaining something in a plant growing situation. The pros/cons are not very clear cut as one is led to believe.

BTW cheap CFLs are lot cheaper than cheap LEDs. Last year I bought 4 pack 23w CFLs for $2. The cheapest 10w LED were $2 a piece. Two 10W leds without diffuser throw out about the same amount of light as a 23W CFL. The two leds will produce less heat than one CFL though.

A reflector is useful to catch the light going backwards and send it forwards again. You lose a portion of the intensity even with a reflector but is better than not using one. For a led bulb without the diffuser you will notice light only comes out towards the front. You may still want to use a reflector to "focus" the light more towards the plant. But if you have mylar or white paint surround then the benefit of a reflector is not that great - mind you only for the led.

In a closed environment I will worry about safety. Without the diffuser water can easily go inside and affect the circuits. Although leds run at low voltage, the circuit inside is seeing the full 110V AC.

I wish I had taken some pictures when I tear apart bulbs and fixtures to illustrate what I am talking about.

Petuniafish very nice setup. Looks like a very enjoyable spot to hang around.

Thanks Tropic. On days like today with the temp hovering in the 20's it's a great spot to position the beachchair, read, listen to music and keep warm :)

<<Some do what works for them rather than what would work better for their plants.>>

Dave, do you recognize your passive aggression when you see it? You can't stand someone who doesn't agree with you. I use LED's bc heat output is a factor, as is price, and the longevity of LED bulbs is also a persuasive factor. I have T5's, and I've also used CFL's. and have good reasons to transition to LED's. Get over it.

I thought that comment was funny because I do what is best for me but still very good for my plants. Citrus is hard work to do "right" in zone 6b. I meet the requirements for good first years growth then they get kicked outside in spring to spend the rest of their lives in ground to fend for themselves with a bit more than just a help from me.

I do not believe that LED's last longer than CFL's. They are made in china by the lowest bidder with the least amount of ethics and materials of quality. The wiring and electronics will rot long before the led component burns out.

6b "way to cold for citrus" Steve

rredbbeard,

not passive aggressive. I don't care if you agree with me, just trying to point out there are other options out there as you were seriously asking if someone would consider using the LEDs you use over a T5HO setup.

This is a forum, that's what forums are for. To give info and to help each other.

It seems you are the one getting upset that we're not telling you the lights you bought are the best.

"Get over it."

get over what? The lights you choose do not affect me or my plants.

please note: this is the Internet and you may be taking my text the wrong way. When I stated

"Some do what works for them rather than what would work better for their plants. But that's completely fine. To each their own."

that wasn't an attack toward you. It was just a true statement.

Actually, all I did was describe what works for me and what the parameters and limitations are in my situation. I didn't ask, seriously or otherwise, if others would use one system over the other. This is basically 'show & tell' here, for the most part. The heat output in my setup is a major consideration. The LED's keep my growing area ~in the 75°-82° range now, but in summer, the other options would keep things too warm without extra ventilation. CFL's and flourescents aren't a good choice in my basement setup, for all the reasons described earlier. The proof is in the plants growing well and flowering nicely.

Tropicofcancer, don't worry--there's no way I'm going to mess with taking an LED bulb apart--lol.

Poncirus--we gotta talk. Citrus outdoors year-round in 6b? Cool!

I'm glad things are working out for you. And I mean that in an honest and sincere way.

This is a public forum so you have to expect others to share ideas and experiences.

Don't take offense if you post something and someone chimes in with other ideas that could serve you even better. I wasn't doing it to say your ideas or products you use suck.