There is a negative discussion about them on another canning forum.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/country-homemaking/preserving-harvest/558397-lids-menards-empire-anyone-used-them.html

And another negative review on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/fleetfarm/posts/944080928986336

Peppi brought me some from Chicago when she came to visit, both wide mouth and regular. I've only used a couple of boxes, but they worked, maybe because my carpal tunnel keeps me from overtightening the rings? I did have one failure in each of the two batches I canned and I seldom have lid failures, so maybe the brand was a factor. Or maybe not.

I use lids for a lot of other things, though, like quart jars of my homemade yogurt and rings and lids for dehydrated foods that I store in canning jars. I also freeze cider in quarts, so if I do have trouble, I'll just use them for something besides canning!

I do have a FoodSaver, which I'm trying to beat into submission, and it has a device that seals a canning jar with a lid too, so I'll have plenty of uses for them...

Annie

Dave, I kind of thought there would be problems with the lids. I really prefer to have my canning equipment made in the USA.

Annnie, your ideas are good. I will probably try them on a small batch of something this coming season, but I like your idea of using them with dehydrated foods. I also have a FoodSaver and am having to learn how to use this new one. I had an older model that died and this one is a little different in the way it works.

I have never used the canning devise and it didn't come with any good descriptions on how to use it. However, sometime when I have plenty of excess time on my hands, I will try to figure it out.

Helen

From what I have read Empire is a start-up USA-based company so I'd love to see them succeed. But, and no personal experience with them as they aren't available here, they apparently have some quality issues they need to resolve.

I'd love to hear some feedback from those who have both brands side-by-side to compare for diameter, thickness of the lids, width of the sealing band, color of the seal, inside lid coating, etc. Maybe if we can figure out the possible cause of the problems they might listen to us.

Dave

From what I see when comparing the two, Empire's rubber seal in slightly wider. Diameter is the same but the Empire might me a hair thicker.

Ball has the raised circle in the center that is clearly visible, Empire's is not as visible. You can barely see the indentation, inside and the outside the indention is there but not visible. When you press the Ball circle, you can feel it move. That does not happen with the Empire. That's all I see but it could be the reason that the Empire seal does not hold as well.

I am wondering if I do try to use these seals and they seal initially, will the seal hold for a period of time or will they give out and allow air to come in the jars? What do you think?

Helen

My local Fleet Farm carried Empire products a few years ago. They were not available this past season. I bought both some jars and packages of their lids, and have been using them side by side with Kerr and Ball products. I have not have any seal improperly, or otherwise not function as intended.

They are made by Alliance, based in Coldwater, Michigan, so I'd love to see them succeed. I haven't been able to find where they are manufactured, whereas the Ball lids are made in the USA.

As Helen noted, they are very similar to the Ball lids I have. They seem a bit lighter, but the sealing strip is a little wider. I can't tell if it's any deeper, and the indentation in the middle isn't as defined as that on the Ball lids.

I did see some Facebook complaints about lids rusting, but haven't experienced that. Yet. I think Dave's idea of contacting the company is a good one, I'd be very happy to continue to purchase them if they are proven reliable and are available. The way to "keep American jobs" is to buy American products, so I'm happy when I can do that. I just can't determine whether they are actually manufactured here or somewhere else, whereas Ball says right on their website that they are made in the USA.

I do like the pattern on their jelly jars too, so I'm hoping to find some locally and avoid paying shipping. Aw, geez, like I need more jars!

Annie

The package states: Designed in USA, manufactured in China.

In that case I am not inclined to buy or use them.

Dave

Thanks, Helen, I've looked at that box 6 or 7 times and didn't see that and it's definitely not easily accessible on their website.

Like Dave, I'd prefer to buy lids manufactured here.

Annie

Since I purchased them, I will keep them. I can use them on the jars when we process our honey.

Super deal on the lids. I never had a processing failure with them.

Good to hear! I may try them on something simple of jams or jellies.

I bought Empire canning jars in quarts. I just had a bad experince with them. I was pressure canning beef stew and all the lids are rippled/bent

Sorry to see that Joanne but it is a great proof picture of the problems with them. Would you be willing to send it to the company?

Dave

I am going to contact the compay, but this is the next day and they all are flat again. I have taken off the rings and tried to remove the lids by hand (just using fingers and no bottle opener) and each one sealed. Now I wonder if they are okay. This is crazy. Never in my 40 years of canning has this ever happened. Some of the jars have a slight dent where they were buckled before. Probably no one but me would even notice.

I also want to make another observation. The water in the pressure canner was like stock. I have had a greasy film on the water when I have canned meat before, but this was soooooo dark and greasy. More than ever before. Interesting.

My local Fleet Farm has not carried the Empire products for awhile. I bought a bunch of their wide mouth lids a few years ago. Maybe the newer products are less reliable. I just used the remainder of my old stock on 16 pints of canned fish and they all sealed perfectly with no buckling (100 min at 10lbs pressure). Based on your experience, and Dave notifying us that they were manufactured in China, I would not purchase them again.

I made strawberry jam 2 weeks ago and they sealed fine but when I opened a jar there was rust on it. I bought them a day before I canned. I was advised to toss all my jam!! As there is no way of knowing if the rust is in the jam or not. Does anyone have a phone number for the company? They do not have one listed on their website so I had to email them.

Thank you Annie!

I did use them last year to can jams. They have been fine and I may have also used them for my tomatoes with no problems. I still have more left. Probably will use them again for jams.

Hrlrn

"I was advised to toss all my jam!! As there is no way of knowing if the rust is in the jam or not."

It is your choice of course but I see no reason for tossing the jam. Rust (I see a small amount on one lid in the photo) is not harmful. It does not infest the food as mold does. It is just iron oxide and as we know iron is common in many foods.

I'm not saying it is a good thing that these lids rusted. Just that rust on the inside of canning lids regardless of brand does happen and poses no threat. High acid foods can often cause the sealant to break down and the metal to rust. It doesn't usually develop this quickly (2 weeks) but it can and does happen.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to eat the jam. JMO

Dave

From the picture of the used lids, I assumed the poster had already tossed all the jam. If she hasn't, I wouldn't throw it out either, I agree that the rust won't create a safety issue in the jam, although it might be able to compromise flavor if it becomes extensive enough.

Annie

I commiserate with you kerryhz28. I see the rust around the corner of every one of those upturned lids. If Empire lids rust that quickly in just two weeks, what the heck happens if you store it all the way to the start of the next canning season? Holes will have rusted all the way through?! And the buckled pressure canned goods earlier in the thread?! What a waste those lids are!

It makes me angry that Alliance Foods / Empire would sell these crappy things, calling them canning lids. If you cannot can with them, they are not canning lids. They are just overpriced, useless doo-dads whose use wastes our produce, our time, our prep work, the energy we purchase for canning. It is just wrong to sell them as canning lids, just as it would be wrong to sell a bicycle with non-circular wheels. It just isn't the product they say it is.

Matthais, I agree, although I've found many uses for those lids that don't involve canning. I do dehydrate various items, and I use the lids to seal the jars of stored dehydrated items. I keep pantry items like lentils, beans and barley in canning jars and they need lids. I also use the lids to store things in the refrigerator in lieu of Tupperware, and the grandkids have painted them and made them into Christmas ornaments. (grin)

So, I didn't waste them, but they sure aren't suitable for canning!

Annie

Annie it had already compromised the flavor in just 2 weeks. I could taste metal in the jam and jelly. An expensive mistake I won't make again thats for sure!

Ugh, kerry, that's terrible. It's bad enough to put all that time and money into making something and have it not turn out, but when something you should be able to trust spoils it, that really sucks. (sigh) I'm sorry.

Annie

These lids are junk. 3 days after canning tomatoes the underside of the lids started growing black rust in a perfect circle. These are cheaply made in China. DO NOT BUY this junk. Redoing 50 qts. right now.

This is after the "black fuzz" was washed off.

I bought some for the first time at Runnings store and they are crap, they would not seal only if they was in hot water bath and I canned a lots of dill pickles and they was sealed checked a few days later and every thing was unsealed, not happy with the crap I have wasted so much time on my canning and to have it not seal, I am not a happy person to go through all the work and have to throw it out, and not have any stuff for the winter months, they are awful never again you want the ones I have left back, I DON"T want no part of them,

DO NOT BUY EMPIRE BRAND CANNING LIDS! I have found that the seals on a lot of the cheap Empire brand lids have failed on my home canned goods thus rendering the contents inedible and unsafe. On the other hand, NONE of the Ball/Kerr seals have failed. Just the Empire. A member of a Facebook gardening group I belong to had this same issue so it isn't just me. I purchased them at Menard's.

I bought the Empire jars that came with the lids and rings ! I have so many failures with these lids. The jars are fine but I won't use these lids ever again ! I just did 15 quarts of tomato puree and 1 never sealed from the get go and 3 more popped open this morning !

I love the empire brand the jars and lids etc. The lids are large on Ball Jars but they seal great. I wish they were more widely available but I am afraid they are going out of business in this country.

I picked up a LOT of Empire a couple years ago. I like them for dry storage lids that I don't vacuum seal. I use a lot of canning jars for storage in my kitchen pantry. I don't use them for canning or for dry vacuum sealing- have had failures with both in ways I never experienced with Ball or Kerr brands.

Just canned some green beans and the lids look like they sealed but looks like a slight ripple in the lid, is that safe or do I need to redo it?

HU, I answered you on the other thread, but yes, I'd redo that. The NCHFP says treat it as though it's unsealed, and I agree. Green beans are a low acid vegetable and something to be careful with. I'd redo it.

Annie

so mad canned today and only 1 of 12 sealed these are are worthless and I paid aa good price for them so now in fridge to redo tomorrow !! Don't buy

These lids are bad!!!!!!

I purchased my Empire lids three years ago and had not used them. This year I ran out of Ball lids and still had canning to do. I have not found lids in the stores all this year. I used the Empire lids and canned Apple Sauce and Apple Butter. They sealed fine. I just wonder if the seal will hold through the winter.

I wonder if your seals held? I do realize that lid-makers don't recommend keeping canned goods for 6 years, but I've only had the occasional problem with Ball or Kerr kept for a long time like that. On the other hand, I just discovered that every Empire canned candied or pickled peppers that I put up have unsealed themselves and are trash. Jars from the same batches with Ball lids are still fine.