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Advice for choosing shrubs/plants

9 years ago

I am beginning to think about planting for the spring. I am in northern NJ.

The front of my house has two beds that used to have seagrass, a couple of small pines, and something else I couldn't identify. These areas are in direct sun all year long. The depth of soil is not very deep, I can maybe dig about a foot or less, then it becomes difficult to go any further, and there are lots of small rocks.

My question is: I would like to plant some things that will 1) thrive in direct sun 2) be able to survive in a small-ish space (probably 8 foot by 3 foot) and not need too much depth of soil, and 3) look really nice.


Thanks for any suggestions!

Comments (64)

  • 9 years ago

    The purpose of foundation planting is to hide the foundation. You don't have any foundation to hide. I would use a low groundcover, many groundcover sedums would work, and some are evergreen. Also attractive would be Geranium 'Biokovo' or 'Karmina'. Also, evergreen, turning a nice reddish in winter.

    I also second a tree in the yard.

    As for the driveway planting, scraggly looking and unattractive.

  • 9 years ago

    "As for the driveway planting, scraggly looking and unattractive."

    I would tend to agree, plus some of the shrubs have been meatballed. But it isn't the OP's driveway. It is the neighbour's and the OP showed it because they like it. "The first picture is of a neighbor's that I really like the combination of ...."

    On the other hand "The four small shrubs (not sure what they are) I am getting rid of because I think they are unsightly" look to me like healthy, natural shaped box bushes. Even if they are not required where they are they are well grown shrubs which could be useful elsewhere.

  • 9 years ago

    Yes, the first picture is my neighbor's house. I thought the 3 or four small plants/shrubs closet to the driveway were nice....


    There is actually a large tree in our front yard; it's to the right of the porch out of frame.


    I would ideally like some things that are about the same height as those boxwoods, but to replace them. Something with some greens and reds, some things with varying shapes and looks....

  • 9 years ago

    Joe, I think I'm with Ken on this one - thinking perennials. Perhaps look for some evergreen ones to give you the year round interest. And i also like Ontario's suggestion of statuary or art of some kind. I want to say 'helleborus!' For plants but then I see you are full sun...and I am better at shade. Anyway, I think the space isn't really wide enough for shrubbery so you will be pruning a lot.

  • 9 years ago

    A three foot wide bed in full sun could become a mixed perennial and sub-shrubby herb bed. Lavender, thymes and various sages would do well there, providing they can take your winters. Dianthus and Helianthemums possibly too. Personally I'd keep a Box or two to anchor the bed and provide green in the winter. It would not be much effort to keep it trimmed to an acceptable size. I'd repeat the plantings, not just plonk down one of each. And of course the whole thing must be stuffed with spring bulbs ;-)

    Just my opinion but I think there is enough going on there with the wrought iron curlicues, brick steps, natural stone walls, artificial flagstone path, shutters, scalloped fascia, white paint and block edging without adding 'art'.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I would ideally like some things that are about the same height as those boxwoods, but to replace them."

    I think that eventually you will also want to see some of your own landscaping yourself, looking out of the window or sitting on the porch.

    You could use Google Images to find visual examples like the one below, of what this homeowner did, facing similar hardscaping constraints like you do.

    Not that I particularly like it myself, but it is at least a decent landscape design solution as a reference to make changes to your own liking, e.g. more formal or more natural, more red or blue or purple, etc.

    Although, you don't want to copy your neighbor's garden design features :-)

  • 9 years ago

    I think a dwarf nandina would fit rather well in front of your house. There are many cool cultivars with different leaf colors. Some get the flowers and berries, some do not.

  • 9 years ago

    Another pic from a neighbor that I really like:


  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's a conventional foundation planting with 'tall in the back, small in the front'. You could have something similar, if you also plant on the street side of the hardscaped walkway, with the 'small in the front'. Although the 'tall in the back' would be limited by the narrow 3' width of the bed. I wouldn't do it myself, but the easiest is to take these neighbors' photos to your favorite local nursery and ask for similar plants.

  • 9 years ago

    5 of the shrubs in the last picture have been sheared into those unnatural flat top shapes. Are you prepared to do that kind of maintenance or do you want shrubs which stay small by themselves?

  • 9 years ago

    A formal foundation planting would look nice. Before you just shear shrubs, you need to look into shrubs that take well to that type of pruning. Look at euonymus japonica, ilex verticuata, ilex opaca, nandina domestica 'firepower', etc.

  • 9 years ago

    Logan, most people aren't into high maintenance gardening that shearing entails. There's cleanup and disposal also. When I see sheared shrubs I can't help but notice that they either need shearing, or they just have that fresh cut sheared look. Think work. In tight quarters, a lot of shrubs chosen would need timely shearing several times a year. Not my cup of tea,....and I'm 'into' gardening.

  • 9 years ago

    I have lots of topiaries. I understand your point because I see the same thing often.

  • 9 years ago

    Right in the middle of that picture, does anyone know what that tree is? I've seen them around....they are usually about 3 foot high and have redish leaves.

  • 9 years ago

    Looks like a Japanese maple.

    Joe BigBlue thanked floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
  • 9 years ago

    I found this image:

    Would this possibly work?

  • 9 years ago

    Your photo shows a Japanese maple underplanted with hostas. You're on the right track now using a selection of perennials instead of all shrubs. All the plants in this photo are deciduous meaning your garden would be bare from October to April. How about using a couple of evergreen perennials instead of all hostas?

    Joe BigBlue thanked cecily
  • 9 years ago

    Japanese Maple, probably 'Bloodgood'. I like the weeping ones like acer palmatum var. dissectum 'waterfall' and 'crimson queen'.

  • 9 years ago

    The maple would need to be on the side of the walkway that isn't against the house. Even the smallest Japanese maple won't fit in a 3' deep space. So you would need to create a larger bed with the path running through it and the maple in the part on the street side of the path but far enough from the path so that it won't block the path as it grows.

  • 9 years ago

    No way is that a 'Bloodgood' maple!! It is some sort of weeping dissectum as well but as Babs notes above, even one of these will not fit in a 3' deep planting bed. And pruning (or as Logan advocates, "shearing") is not something you want to be doing to a Japanese maple to get it to fit in too tight a space.

    As I stated in the duplicate thread on the Landscape Design forum, you are not going to be able to duplicate your neighbor's layered planting in a 3' deep bed. There is simply not enough space available to achieve that effect regardless of the plant choices.

  • 9 years ago

    I never suggested shearing a japanese maple. That's the worst landscape idea I have ever heard in my life! You are correct, it is a weeping dissectum, should have enlarged the picture.

  • 9 years ago

    Hi folks-

    Here's a picture from a couple of years ago. You can see the evergreens that used to be there. I'm beginning to think replacing with the same would be best as I can't find anything that fits the imaginary design I am thinking of. Thoughts?

  • 9 years ago

    Put a tall statue under the window on the left, one on a pedestal even, makes for a quite formal look.

  • 9 years ago

    A statue? Not really my thing.

    BTW that's a picture from the previous owner...I don't have a boat.

  • 9 years ago

    That's OK, I merely said what I would have done given the constraints, of course you need to follow your own sense of aesthetics.

  • 9 years ago

    I can't tell anything from that photo except poor siting of arborvitae.

  • 9 years ago

    Do you mean that's not a good place for them?

  • 9 years ago

    Yes. I am referring to the ones on each side of the window. I can't really see the others.

  • 9 years ago

    Well, I can tell you they did die and before that began leaning into the walkway which was annoying.

    So I'm not exactly thrilled to think of replacing them with the same.

    But I'm curious as to why you say they are poorly sitting?

  • 9 years ago

    They are out of scale to begin with and the fact that they started to lean out into the walkway just confirms that they are too large a plant for that confined space.

  • 9 years ago

    Yes, I thought so too.


    Any suggestions on similar that would be a good replacement?

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    These are the narrowest fastigiate conifers that you should be able to buy. But they too will grow broader than 3' at the base, so if that happens you need to replace them, but at least you do not have to replace them as often. Of course, you could shear them, but they will look a bit odd then, and eventually you can't shear and prune them to size anymore and need to replace them too.

    Thuja occidentalis 'DeGroot's Spire'

  • 9 years ago

    What about 'sky pencil' holly? When it starts to get large and leggy, you could just hard prune it and allow it to re grow. Then you could place some sort of ornamental, maybe a knockout rose or dwarf abelia between the two hollies. In front of the porch, you could replace the boxwoods with Nandina 'firepower' or Nandina 'lemon lime'. If you do not like Nandina (I don't know since you seem to ignore my previous suggestion) you could go with something else, like one of the variegated euonymus.

  • 9 years ago

    I didn't mean to ignore your suggestion....there's so much information in this thread to sort through...I looked it up and it does look very nice....I have to see if my local nursery will carry it and if they do if they have a good size.


    I will look up your other suggestions as well.


    I must admit, you all know so much more than me, who knows pretty much nothing on the subject, and I'm just trying to learn....it's a bit much, but I really do appreciate everyone's suggestions!

  • 9 years ago

    Yes, the gardenweb forums contain a wealth of knowledge. It is impossible not to learn something! I would suggest some of the fasitigiate berberis..... but I don't think the thorns will mix well with the walkway.

    Nandina 'Firepower'

    The liriope 'variegata' do add a nice touch.

    Nandina 'Lemon Lime'

    These have very bright yellow foliage, even lighter than it appears in the photo (I saw some at lowes hardware last summer)

    'Sky Pencil' Holly

    They do get taller than in the picture

    Knock out rose (red)

    'Rose Creek' Dwarf Abelia


    Joe BigBlue thanked Logan L Johnson
  • 9 years ago

    Doggone it Joe, yesterday you were thinking about perennials and now you're looking at shrubs again. Few shrubs will fit in a 3 foot border without frequent pruning and they would look like soldiers in a row.

    May I muddy the waters by suggesting an island bed? I think your home is lovely; it looks clean and well-maintained. The landscaping is plain vanilla which is the way some folks like it (grass is easy to maintain). But you want to dress it up a bit. So how about a kidney shaped bed of perennials, shorter shrubs and your weeping Japanese maple toward the right front corner of the yard...



    Joe BigBlue thanked cecily
  • 9 years ago

    It's not Joe, it's Lonfusion, the L-confusion :-)

    The island bed on the other side of the walkway has been suggested earlier, I would even extend the island bed to wrap around the right front corner of the house. There is ample space over there, it would soften the edge of the house and provides a visual connection (not a physical bridge) to the now visually isolated tree on the right.

    These landscaping issues should really have been sorted out in the other thread in the landscaping forum before even considering plant selection.

    In all this, it depends on Joe how much installation and maintenance effort he wants to spend on curb appeal (which effort can and should be minimized, of course).

    Joe BigBlue thanked Ontario_Canada5a_USDA4b
  • 9 years ago

    Your island bed is by the house, mine is at the front corner of the yard, by the street. Either way, if Joe doesn't want an island, he doesn't have enough space for shrubs.

  • 9 years ago

    I can tell you all one thing: I am not going to touch the grass. You can't tell from the picture because it's from a few years ago, but last year I completely re-did the entire lawn and now, if I may humbly say, it looks fantastic.

    So I do not want to plant anything in the lawn space. I've seen it done, and it can look great, but I pride myself on the lawn too much right now :)

    BTW, I guess this is all somewhat of a moot point as I'm going to be limited by what my nursery has anyway.....and they don't re-open until March I think.

  • 9 years ago

    Better nurseries should be open these days, taking advance orders for spring delivery. Spring selection would be better of course, but you may want to look at cold-season appearance of (especially deciduous) plants.

  • 9 years ago

    The next step in making your lawn look better is to improve the shape of it. To me, it looks too square and formal, but if you're a formal type of guy you will like the shape just as it is. You will feel comfortable with plants lined out like soldiers too. You want it simple, straight, and under control. That's OK, it's just a different way to look at landscapes. We garden freaks tend to give advice as if you're one too. :-)

    Joe BigBlue thanked Mike McGarvey
  • 9 years ago

    Mike makes a very good point....... I still think it would look really bad in the winter with only perennials. The island bed isn't a bad idea.... but it might be better to just to leave it be for now and plant an ornamental tree, like a redbud or dogwood.

  • 9 years ago

    The suggestion was made to consider evergreen perennials. In zone 6, these would be ??

  • 9 years ago

    I keep thinking about those four perfectly healthy box bushes which are already there. Surely they can be incorporated into the final scheme?

  • 9 years ago

    I agree, floral. They aren't particularly attractive to my eye lined up in their current bare bed, but would be far easier to keep to a reasonable size than many alternatives, seem to like the spot they are in, and would provide evergreen interest. Perhaps one or two in each bed with other plants for contrast would work for Joe.

    Joe BigBlue thanked NHBabs z4b-5a NH
  • 9 years ago

    Floral, you make a good point. I wouldn't throw them out. I'm sure they could be used for something. Maybe lined down one side of the driveway, or in a row alternating with other shrubs, or in a container pruned as a topiary.

    Joe BigBlue thanked Logan L Johnson
  • 9 years ago

    If Sky Pencil Holly would work, does anyone know if Irish Juniper would also?


  • 9 years ago

    When they outgrow their space pruning won't work.

  • 9 years ago

    Joe, the searchable 'Gardening Help' from the Missouri Botanical Garden should be useful for you in a general sense, and more specifically for estimating 10-year plant sizes, for example. Also, learn the botanical names in Latin as it allows for more accurate searches than common names.

    http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/your-garden/help-for-the-home-gardener.aspx

    P.S. Determine your USDA Plant Hardiness Zone if you have not done it yet http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

    Choose plants that are rated 1 zone hardier than your own zone if you want to avoid winter problems in a more reliable way. For example, if you determine from the USDA site that you live in zone 6, choose plants that are rated for zone 5.

    Joe BigBlue thanked Ontario_Canada5a_USDA4b