I don't have any experience with vet school, but medical school certainly works like that. US students who don't get into medical school will go to Granada's medical school among others (I forget the names).

However, foreign doctors who practice here who have gotten their degree in their home country and come here and retrained in a US residency program are very well-trained and honestly seemed superior to US medical school graduates in physical exam skills (our students rely on technology as a diagnostic tool).

So I probably didn't answer your question but either way he sounds like he is not very skilled and I would find a new vet.

Exactly what cleo said. How's kitty doing?

I wouldn't generalize, but agree that he did not seem very competent.

Socks, it seems that poor Midnight passed away a few days ago.

I don't have any experience with vet
school, but medical school certainly works like that. US students who
don't get into medical school will go to Granada's medical school among
others (I forget the names).

Exactly, cleo.

However, foreign doctors who practice here who have gotten their
degree in their home country and come here and retrained in a US
residency program are very well-trained and honestly seemed superior to
US medical school graduates in physical exam skills (our students rely
on technology as a diagnostic tool).

Certainly. They didn't have to leave their home country to get their education, so they were competitive with others in their country. I agree with you that many foreign doctors, such as European doctors, are superior to U.S. doctors, whom I don't have a lot of trust in.

Now, I want to point out that I don't look down on foreign vet schools at all. If someone was from Britain and received his BVMS degree from there as well, I would have no qualms about giving him (or her) a try. But I just think it's very unlikely that someone in the U.S. would go abroad for such an education.

So I probably didn't answer your question but either way he sounds like he is not very skilled and I would find a new vet.

Definitely. He also doesn't have his degree listed on his Web site, which seems telling. In addition, he never followed up after either visit.

It's also interesting that the U.S. accreditation of foreign vet schools has been controversial. Some experts think the U.S. has bent its standards in doing so, which you can read more about here:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/12/11/veterinary-school-accreditor-comes-under-fire

Exactly what cleo said. How's kitty doing?

Thanks for asking, socks, but I guess you read my post a little too quickly. He passed away on Tuesday. But I actually believe that pets have an afterlife too, so I find comfort in that. And I know that he's not suffering anymore. Plus, he lived a pretty full life—he just had a lot of genetic issues, I think. If you convert his age to human years, he lived to be about 71. We adopted him many years ago. And if we hadn't, he might've gotten put to sleep at the shelter, so I find comfort as well knowing that he got to live a normal life.

I wouldn't generalize, but agree that he did not seem very competent.

Well, I was doing a Web search on this issue, nannygoat, and found this statement by an Australian veterinarian:

Sure there are some students who go to international schools because
they want an international experience or because they want to stay in
that country. But 95% of people who go to international schools go there
because at the time they applied, they were not competitive in their
home country.

I think he's correct. I mean, if you graduated from a U.S. university, why would you go to a British vet school when:

1) You would only be getting a bachelor's degree.

2) You would most likely have to spend 5 years getting your degree, which is longer than it takes to get a DVM in the U.S.

3) You could have entered such a program right after high school, saving yourself from wasting 4 years getting another bachelor's degree in the U.S.

4) You would have to pay a ton of money to study and live abroad, and also wouldn't get to see your friends or family very often.

It just doesn't add up to me. So, while there may be some U.S. vets who got their degrees abroad because they just really wanted to study in another country or thought they were getting a superior degree abroad, I think it's safe to conclude that this vet just wasn't competitive enough to get into a U.S. vet school.

Anyway, I just hope that others will learn from my experience. If you don't know anything about an American vet, find out their degree first. If it's from another country, please be safe and choose another vet instead.

Sorry you lost your dear kitty. Best wishes.

Thanks, socks. We're thinking about maybe adopting another one.

I think finding a good Vet is about much more than where a Vet has gone to school. I think it's more important to look at the Vet's overall history and experience; how busy their practice is and how they interact with the animals and their owners. There are lots of ways to vette a Veterinarian clinic and a lot of them now have websites that can and do offer some insight about the Vet's history, their specialties and the practice.

We used to see a Vet who before opening her clinic had practiced at a zoo. Her practice wasn't limited to just a couple of animal species, she'd treat all animals. For avian care or simple things for our cat's she was great. However, when it came to the serious stuff, she completely misdiagnosed our cat. As a result, the cat suffered needlessly AND it cost us a ton of money for nothing. The Vet knew a little bit about a lot of animals but not a lot about any one animal in specific.

We've also had vets that were great with our animals, but were terrible listeners, or weren't so great with our animals and/or would patronize us. You can have a Vet that's a great clinician but if they can't balance it with good people and animal skills, there will still be a deficit in the care.

Our vet now only treats cats and dogs. He went to our local University (UofM) in the early 90's. After working as an Associate Vet for many years at this same practice, he ended up purchasing it and has now been established as such for several more years. His staff have all been with him since the beginning and he's always busy.

IMO, he's a popular vet because he's priced reasonably, he's really a good listener and he's a good Clinician. He knows a lot about both dogs and cats and our animals love him. He always supports his diagnosis with explanations that make sense and we never feel rushed.

ETA that I'm really sorry about the loss of your kitty. It makes it worse when you tried to do everything right and the Vet was not up to the task. I really hope you will open your heart to another, there are so many who need love and a good home.

Nannygoat, I didn't know your kitty was ill, I'm sorry for the loss. You'll have to fill me in. :c(

Lukki, although Kirby loves cats, we are strictly a canine household. And several updates are coming your way!

Socks had inquired about Midnight (Neptune's kitty) and I clarified that he had passed away.

You are so fortunate to have found a vet that exists only in my imagination. It gives me hope that there's some truly excellent ones out there.

There are two veterinary schools in Scotland: The University of Glasgow and the University of Edinburgh. Both are highly respected, very prestigious schools of veterinary medicine. English universities are totally different in their degree programs than American universities. One is not better than another, just different.

Why not just ask him why he chose to go to veterinary school in Scotland? I'm sure that admission to these schools is highly competitive. It's not like he went to vet school on a Caribbean island of in Africa - don't even know if such things exist.

Well, now it makes sense! I could not for the life of me recall you talking about a kitty!!! Yes, so far, our Vet really rocks it and I'm feeling fortunate to have found him. Unfortunately, it's like finding a needle in a haystack!

Hi nannygoat,

I appreciate your research,
neptune--however, I'm speaking from a personal standpoint. I had to
switch doctors due to a series of medical errors committed by my
Harvard-educated MD so I'm a bit leery of generalizing. My current
doctor graduated from a no-name medical school and is head-and-shoulders
above the previous one both professionally and personally.

I can believe that. A Harvard MD might be a terrible doctor, and a New Mexico State MD might be a great doctor. I'm just saying that if someone had to go out of the country for school, then they were probably a terrible student, and it's best to avoid them. As long as someone went to school in their home country, then the ranking of their school probably doesn't matter much.

Condolences on the loss of your beloved companion. There's lots of cats waiting to fill your heart and home!

Thanks so much for your condolences, and yes, there are so many wonderful cats out there who need loving homes.

Hi Anglophilia,

There are two veterinary schools in
Scotland: The University of Glasgow and the University of Edinburgh.
Both are highly respected, very prestigious schools of veterinary
medicine. English universities are totally different in their degree
programs than American universities. One is not better than another,
just different.

These schools are probably highly competitive for British students who are right out of high school. For students who already have a college degree from the U.S., I suspect the standards for those students are much lower than for American vet schools. So, I would have no problem going to a British vet who attended such a school, but I think it's best to avoid an American who had to go abroad for such an education.

Why not just ask him why he chose to go to veterinary school in
Scotland?

If he went abroad for reasons that seem obvious, do you actually believe he would tell me the truth? Besides, the fact that he doesn't even list his degree on his vet Web site speaks volumes. And after the terrible (and costly) treatment I received from him, I'm completely done with him, so there won't be any future conversations. ;)

I'm sure that admission to these schools is highly
competitive.

For British students right out of high school, yes. Also, if you haven't done so, please read the article I posted earlier about the U.S. accreditation of foreign vet schools being controversial. Many think it has involved a bending of standards, because U.S. undergrads are required to have a science background that it would be almost impossible for any foreign high-school student to have.

Hi lukkiirish,

I think finding a good Vet is about much
more than where a Vet has gone to school.

Certainly. If a vet went to school in their home country, then the school probably doesn't matter much. All I'm saying is that it's probably best to avoid vets who had to go abroad to get a degree, especially when they seem to be secretive/deceptive about their actual degree.

As a result, the cat suffered
needlessly AND it cost us a ton of money for nothing.

I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope things got better for your cat after that.

We've also had vets that were great with our animals, but were
terrible listeners, or weren't so great with our animals and/or would
patronize us. You can have a Vet that's a great clinician but if they
can't balance it with good people and animal skills, there will still be
a deficit in the care.

Exactly.

IMO, he's a popular vet because he's priced reasonably, he's really a
good listener and he's a good Clinician. He knows a lot about both dogs
and cats and our animals love him. He always supports his diagnosis
with explanations that make sense and we never feel rushed.

Sounds like an excellent vet. You are very fortunate to have one of those nearby.

ETA that I'm really sorry about the loss of your kitty. It makes it
worse when you tried to do everything right and the Vet was not up to
the task. I really hope you will open your heart to another, there are
so many who need love and a good home.

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts.

nannygoat wrote:

You are so fortunate to have found a vet that exists only in my
imagination. It gives me hope that there's some truly excellent ones out
there.

That vet does sound like a dream almost. :)

We have been blessed with two great vets in the time we have had pets. Both started their careers in conventional veterinary medicine and became interested in acupuncture and Chinese herbs. I was sad when the first one retired and sold his practice. The new vet has the same philosophy and does acupuncture but I never clicked with her and she raised prices significantly. We then found our current vet, who does not have an office bit has clinics 3 times a week in three different pet stores and does house calls. She practices integrated medicine and does acupuncture. She has low overhead and her prices are very reasonable, I can always reach her for advice, and she works with a couple vets for things like x-rays and neuter/spay which she doesn't have the equipment for.

It's all about clicking. Something that cannot be taught in a classroom.

glaserberl,

We then found our current vet, who does not
have an office bit has clinics 3 times a week in three different pet
stores and does house calls. She practices integrated medicine and does
acupuncture. She has low overhead and her prices are very reasonable, I
can always reach her for advice, and she works with a couple vets for
things like x-rays and neuter/spay which she doesn't have the equipment
for.

I'm glad that things are working out well for you with your current vet. It's nice when they can incorporate some holistic medicine as well.

nannygoat18 wrote:

It's all about clicking. Something that cannot be taught in a classroom.

Except for mouse-clicking, maybe. LOL. :)

Yeah, that's the thing. There are many intangible skills that, while extremely important, can never really be taught in a classroom. Empathy is certainly one of them.