Sorry I did forget to mention where I'm located, my bad. I'm in Edmond, Oklahoma basically a north suburb of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I didn't plant it, had a landscape person do it. I don't think its pot bound, I think it had the burl sac stuff on it and he took it off, but I'm not for sure. I also don't know if its a dwarf variety, if not yes, its probably too close to the house.

It's way to close to your home, Chris. These trees grow enormous in height and width. Zone 7a should be great for Cedrus deodara as well as the climate there.

I would recommend you wait until spring to see if the buds are fine and proceed from there while moving it to a location further from your home. Or, you should choose some other shrub preferably/dwarf Cedrus for that spot.

Issues with the roots do seem to be the cause and/or poor drainage and the roots are too wet/rotting.

Dax

Dax,

So you think its too wet? I think that is a pretty damp spot. I'll take some more pictures of the area around it and the boulder he put in front of it, that actually blocks it from the sprinklers. I thought it wasn't getting enough water. We did have a bit of a drought this fall/winter and I thought it was partially to blame. I'll do as you said and leave it in place and see if it will bud. Should I try to remove any dry dead buds from it now? Or just leave it as is? And how far away from the house does it need to be? So its not a front flower bed type of tree? A lot of the houses in my neighborhood have these types of trees in the yard/flower gardens on the corners etc, and I love that look, I'm not sure what you experts call the look but that type with various cedars mixed with the natural looking rocks/boulders, like its on the bottom of a mountain side near a river etc. Very pleasing to me. Using blue atlases and a variety of trees with that look, thats what I'm wanting.

Looks like winter injury to me. Here in my part of USDA 8 (the Seattle area) many even landmark sized examples of this species burned during the 1990 winter, when it apparently got below 10 degrees F. in most locations other than the mildest ones.

i encourage you to talk with the seller ... a large transplant can take a few years to fail ... you have nothing to lose ... report what he has to say ...

also.. i suggest winter as a good time to talk to him.. if you wait till his busy season ... good luck with that ...

the base problem.. is that if its a root/transplant issue.. you wont know until it dies.. and you dig it up ...

what is your native soil ... and have you ever perked it???

ken

With a common, beloved even, widely grown species like this, it's always a good idea to just look around where you live. If you see mature Deodar cedars, than they are suited for your area. If you don't, they aren't. Simple as that! That being said a hardy clone like 'Paktia', 'Karl Fuchs' or even 'Shalimar' should probably be fine in your area, but, yeah, it's insanely too close the house anyhow so if it doesn't make it, you might just chalk it up to divine intervention.

"landscape person" - probably giving him too much credit

Very well could be winter damage. That's more what it looks like but I thought I saw what appeared to be a gutter coming down the side of your house near that tree.

At any rate it could very well be alive and just bronzed for now. It'll all be in the buds. Don't do any pruning but wait. And yes, it's gotta go somewhere else. If you want the same look for that area, find a suitable dwarf Cedrus deodara cultivar... typically one that grows 3-4" a year. I wouldn't plant one that grows faster than 3-4" and has a shape that's going to be taller than wider. If you do the math, you will know when that chosen cultivar will rub shoulders with your home and at what height it will be at when doing so. The whole idea is for something to never rub shoulders if you do it right. That's not to mean you cannot prune it at a late age to keep it in check. A deciduous shrub there say a viburnum as a pure example could be pruned annually, but a conifer there will require more thought to the long term process.

Dax

Yes, thats a gutter down spout there, I'll wait and see if it can rebound come spring and then get a plan to move it or replace it with a dwarf version. Thanks all.

look into mail order for smaller.. much cheaper conifers ... we have many favored sellers ....

the key with smaller stock.. is that you dont usually need to hire out the job ....

cheaper that is.. unless we enable and get you hooked in collecting.. lol ...

ken

Ha, see I'm just a home owner, not a big green thumb or really into landscaping etc, don't get me wrong, I love how you are able to craft looks with the nature thats available, but its just not my thing to get out and plant stuff. However if it will save me some money, I'm not against giving it a try, but just remember I'm what you'd call a total noob when it comes to landscaping and planting stuff. You all are throwing out these words like "conifers" and "viburnum" etc, and its all greek to me. So bear with me while I look things up and try to follow along with your advice. I wished I was more into the actual art and science of the landscaping but I'm not. I'm very open minded to mail order so any sellers you want to share with me please go for it! I don't know that I'd be able to move this tree myself, but I could put in some smaller stuff. I think I might have paid way too much for this tree, another reason I am posting here and am upset about the possible losing it.

Also, would like to know how much I should be watering this pictured tree, if any? I think someone said it might be too wet, but I really haven't had the sprinklers on it for a while since it started getting lower temps here in Zone 7A (something you all taught me here). I try to remember to turn my system on when the days are nice, like yesterday and today upper 60's even 70, to get some of the living stuff in my flower beds some water. Its been pretty dry this winter, not much rain or snow.

If it were mine I would feed it,have had good lucky with similar looking conifers when I fed them heavily.Actually I start a small compost pile in the tree apron,coffee grounds,manure,you name it leaves etc. etc

I did get some plant food and put some around the base, is there more specific "tree" food I could buy at the local TLC etc? Or do I just need to buy stuff like you mentioned. Coffee grounds huh? Wow. Thats one I'd never heard of.

I wasn't thinking fully ahead. Don't plant a dwarf Cedar near a downspout, either. You'll want a water-loving plant that won't mind flooding occasionally. And you'll need a shrub not a tree, of course. Or, you run the water into the yard and assuming that corner area will not get overly damp, then go ahead and plant a dwarf Cedar.

Dax

Dax,

That downspout actually was routed out in front of the flower bed where the tree and bushes are, he used those big black tubes and buried it so goes out into the front yard in front of this bed. He did this with all the downspouts that hit the flower beds.

So a dwarf should be just fine there, maybe a bit more away from the house though as you've suggested?

I would suspect that poor soil drainage or excessive water retention in the soil in that location is the cause of your problems. Few conifers are happy with consistently damp/wet roots, especially through winter and that condition can lead very rapidly to root rots. Depending on where you live and your usual precipitation, watering in winter is generally not needed, as soil is very slow to lose moisture in the cold temps. Additional water at this time of year may just be exacerbating an already compromised root system.

FWIW, fertilizing will have virtually no effect on this plant other than to stress it further. With relatively fertile garden soil, fertilizing conifers is not a necessary practice and can easily cause more problems than it solves when not needed. Mulching with compost can help (not likely in THIS case) but compost is not considered a fertilizer but rather a soil amendment.

Ok, well now I"m all confused, so I should try NOT to water this tree anymore and just let it see if it can recover, so no plant food etc...gotcha. Thats pretty much what I had done once it turned cold, I stopped watering and didn't do much at all. I guess maybe the flower bed, what you are saying, was too damp at the roots?

I wouldn't water it in the winter. There should be a sufficient amount of rain. I would not add any fertilizer. Personally I would leave it alone and see if it gets new growth in the spring.

That's right Chris. You water your flower beds often but your trees not very often. People here always say regarding when to water trees is to insert your index finger to the knuckle and if it's moist then don't water.

Fertilizing trees is not necessary. That's a rule of thumb dismissed of older horticultural practices that's doesn't apply today.

Mulching is definitely a great practice - especially when new trees are planted and for their first couple of years or more. Later they won't need mulch but it aids in establishment in the initial first 2-3 years.

Compost is fine as a top dressing but don't put it on more than an inch or two - then the mulch goes over that. It's not necessary though. Compost at planting time in soils that are heavy clay where drainage is horrific can be added to supplement the trees establishment but 1/3 part compost to 2/3 native soil is really all that should be amended.

Sure, the further away from the corner for a dwarf Cedar the better. Do the math. Seriously. When a plant says it will be x amount tall and wide those dimensions are given for a 10-year old plant. So if a plant will become 4' tall x 3' wide in 10-years it will be 8' tall x 6' wide at 20-years. In 30-years - it will grow per the 10-year given dimensions, again.

Any more questions, there are very knowledgeable people participating on this thread.

Dax

It's a common mistake to plant Atlas Cedars too close to the house. One landscape in my neighborhood had three grouped around the entryway. They have since been removed. The cedars looked good for ten years though, but it bothered me every time I drove by.

'but it bothered me every time I drove by'

Sign of a true tree geek. :-))

Many of the starbucks ,Dunkin Donuts,will save coffee grounds if you drop off a 5 gallon bucket the will fill it in short order.I get mine at AA meetings and use every bit I get on conifers ,Rhodys,any acid loving plants .Have a dog kennel and the love ALL the poop I can give them.Revived a 40 foot Blue spruce that was on its last legs ,to flourishing now.Since people started raking and bagging the leavesand of course the latest leaf blowers they take all of natures food and as they grow they need more nutrition as they deplete the existing soil .household scrapes are better that chemicals.I use everything after holiday pumpkins,vegetable peels any organic material dead branches ,things that trees feed off in the woods.If ilooks shabby I cover with Pine mulch.Use no chemicals ever.Some say leaves attract insect pest.I have found that the more pests the more preditor insects are provided by mature.Years back had a big problem with slugs on my Rhodies and used All the slug etc products etc.When I put oak leaves ,coffee grounds and dog poop they are gorgeous.No slugs.

Ok so help me here with this idea of the compost ideas you're throwing at me. Remember I'm a noob and remember Oklahoma soil is often that red dirt clay stuff. I don't think I have that in my flower beds, unless I dug real deep, but thats how our soil is here in Oklahoma, red dirt clay. But lets just say these two trees (conifers) I'm dealing with in my flowerbed are not in red dirt clay, what do I do to create compost around the trunks of the trees? Do I dig about a foot around it out and put the coffee grounds, manure, etc in there then cover it all back up with the mulch thats on it now? Is that the idea?

First, used coffee grounds are not particularly acidic - the majority of the acid they contain leaches out with the liquid coffee - the remaining grounds are pretty much neutral wrt pH. And they can become hydrophobic if applied to the soil surface directly so best included as a compost ingredient.

Second. you don't want to "create" compost around the trees but you can apply already prepared compost (a separate and completely distinct topic :-)) as a mulch or topdressing around the dripline. No digging in or incorporating down into the soil profile is required - just a decent layer over the top of the soil surface. FWIW, compost can be a very adequate stand-alone mulch. It does not need to be covered with any other type of mulch. But it does degrade faster than a wood-based much and will need to be replaced/refreshed more often. Compost is the only mulch I use in my garden.

ps. I would NEVER, ever, recommend using dog poop as a mulch or even as an ingredient in a compost pile. Manures of any meat eating animals should be avoided in a garden. Ruminants or poultry manures only.

Ok so then just raw coffee grounds, not prepared are not ideal. I need some kind of prepared compost, to then lay down around it. I was starting to think I could gather up coffee grounds from work and just put it down?

Won't do much for you and could complicate what appears to be an already difficult soil issue. It is far better to just use an already prepared compost, either your own (always preferred) or purchased bagged or in bulk. While not a high nutrient load, a prepared compost contains a much broader range of nutrients/trace elements than a single source ingredient, like the UCG's, which are pretty nitrogen specific.

Also prepared compost will do a great deal in improving overall soil health and texture as well and can eventually improve drainage conditions even when used as just a mulch and not incorporated into the soil profile. UCG's can't do anything like that :-))

Ok sounds good, guess I'll make a trip to the store this weekend to get me some prepared, I don't have any compost or even know how to make/prepare it myself. I'm sure there plenty of knowledge out there to show me how, but for now I'll get some already prepared.

Gamekeeper1, slugs consider dog poop a delicacy here. They will risk going out in the middle of the driveway to eat it. I don't see dog poop, coffee grounds, or oak leaves deterring slugs. At least the ones here. Ours may be a bit more aggressive though. ;-)

I'm betting on your tree has been too dry. You say you watered it only when the weather was nice. Maybe you've misjudged how much water a Deodara needs. I've been to Oklahoma City (The arboretum downtown) and it's a dry place! I did enjoy driving around for a few days looking at landscaping in the suburbs before going to Arkansas.

Well see, thats what exactly what I was thinking, we've been in a drought most of this fall and winter, not a lot of snow or rain. And since I turned off my sprinklers when it got cold, it hasn't gotten much water. But others here have said it looks like from the photo of the tree it got too much water and the roots are rotting? I can dig into the soil at the base and tell if its wet or too wet or dry etc?

You sure can take a look at the soil! :-)

The damage was done months ago so how it is now will only give you a feel for what your soil is like as far as moisture goes. Sprinklers are a less reliable way to deliver water to shrubs and trees, especially for newcomers. They need a deep soaking as soon as they are planted and whenever they're watered. Long enough so the rootball gets saturated. It's not like watering the lawn.

My feeling Blue looked like that after its second year in the ground. I think this plant is hard to grow.

first thing i would do.. is get the dark pot out of sun ... not may plants like hot roots ...

can it go in the ground???

how long in that pot.. whats the media .... does the pot have drain holes ...

do you water.. ONLY when it needs water.. or just constantly???? .. when its not raining.. of course ....

with trees.. conifers.. things usually dont happen fast .... current recent rain.. might not be the problem.. it might date further back ... can you think of anything??

ken