GG pretty much summed it up.

Fresh chicken manure is pretty high in N and you'll need plenty of browns to compensate, unless it is already mixed with bedding (straw, wood shavings etc.).

If you have fish bones I would not shy away from using them, just keep in mind they can attract critters. If you have a hot pile this is the best place to put something like that. Depending on your conditions - surroundings, wildlife, and type of bin - you may be able to put them in any time with no ill effects.

The most important thing is to start a pile, today if possible. The rest will sort itself out as you practice. You will make mistakes but it's almost impossible to actually ruin compost. "Observe and adjust."

Hehe, I guess I worded the first question poorly. I was trying to ask if finished compost, as a fertilizer, would be any good in container gardening setting. Thanks for tackling it still, gardengal!

I would love to start a pile, the thing is I have limited space and actually concrete floor! Hence the container relation. I was planning on a tumbling bin, and perhaps a vermicomposter too, for the time being.

Thank you both, lots!

For the most successful container gardening you want to avoid a lot of decomposable organic matter, like compost. It will continue to break down in to smaller and smaller particles and negatively impact both drainage and aeration which are key elements of container culture. Durability and a sufficiently large particle size are very important elements of any container mix and compost offers neither.

That said, I've used compost in my summertime potted tomato mix, as one ingredient. It may have been incorrect to do so but I banked on the limited amount of time it would be in there as opposed to a more permanent container plant. As far as fertilizer, although compost does have a little NPK in it and a host of micro-nutrients, fertilizing is not really its best function.

Yes, for a single season it can work, but that container soil cannot be reused again.

Whoa ok, I'm definitely lost if that's the case. What's the use if not as fertilizer? A form of soil builder?
What is the best thing to fertilize potted plants then? Inorganic anything? Any recommendations? I mostly grow ornamentals, roses a few jasmines and herbs.

Compost is a soil amendment, not a fertilizer. While it does have a nutrient load, it is quite low and it doesn't meet any of the legal requirements of a fertilizer (NPK guaranteed analysis) and so cannot technically be considered one.

Most container gardeners favor a water soluble synthetic fert with a full compliment of trace elements, like Dyna Gro's Foliage Pro, that can be diluted to offset the need for very frequent application (pretty much SOP for any summer season container planting) but any other water soluble fert can work pretty well, even Miracle Gro. And an alternative for more permanent container plantings is a controlled release granular like Osmocote.

Have you visited the Container Gardening forum and read this thread? Long and just a tad technical but it explains extremely well the very unique conditions regarding gardening in containers and how to address them. Container gardening is nothing like growing in the ground and it must be approached very differently, even as far as watering and fertilizing are concerned.

Let me underscore that point. COMPOST IS A SOIL AMENDMENT. NOT A FERTILIZER. It is really striking how poorly that is understood. Much of the premise of "compost tea" is based on that misunderstanding, and assumes that there is some magic fertilizer that leaches out of compost when you pour water over it.

That being said, as compost slowly degrades with the soil bacteria, it does release nutrients, but that happens on a long time scale. Look at it as a soil amendment that quickly improves soil structure, and much more slowly provides soil nutrients. Compost rapidly loosens soil, making it easier for roots to develop, it improves water permeability and drainage, and at least thereby allows penetration of air. If your soil needs fertilizer now, compost isn't the best way to get it.

Be sure you define "pine" correctly. Many folks use the term for any needled tree. Any true pines should work. Some fir bark may also work as it is preferred over pine with orchid growers but I'm not sure balsam or fraser fir (many Christmas trees) is used. Concolor fir is the fir of choice there. Spruce and others will not work as the bark will decompose too fast.

tj

rosaceae, don't go away thinking compost isn't good for much. It improves soil texture, aeration, drainage, water holding capacity and ion exchange capacity. It has a boatload of microbes which do much of the work of making soil fertile and making nutrients available to plants. It does have NPK (typically in the range of .1-.1-.1 to 1-1-1) that is slow release. In fact if you add compost to a soil (particularly clay) for enough years you can end up with excessive levels of P and K because they don't leach away as fast as N. It also has a host of micronutrients - iron, calcium, magnesium, etc. etc. that plants need and which are not provided by most NPK fertilizers. Finally, it gives you a place to put organic waste from kitchen and garden other than the landfill. Amazing stuff, actually.

Agree with tox 100% - in the ground it is an excellent and extremely beneficial amendment. It's just that compost has no place with container gardening :-)

Not entirely clear why compost is so bad for container gardening, though many people say that. Yes, it gradually degrades and compacts, as any organic would do. But so does peat moss, which is a standard part of container mix. I always put 10% or so compost in my container mixes. I guess some people don't like to use it because they want absolute control of the chemical composition of their mix. Given the chemical variability of compost, it might not be a good idea to use it as a major constituent of the mix. But I've never seen any really solid explanation for why compost in containers should be entirely avoided.

"But so does peat moss, which is a standard part of container mix."

Only in rather inferior prepackaged container mixes :-) Better quality, durable, long term container mixes only have a very small percentage of peat or coir but are heavy on the bark fines. As mentioned previously, if growing short season plants or annuals in containers you can get by with more peat or some compost but even under these short term conditions both peat and compost will collapse and compact with the need for very frequent watering and raise the perched water table, contributing to the likelihood of root rots. As to why compost or high percentages of peat are not ideal or even strongly recommended for container soils, I'd suggest you read this - a pretty thorough treatise on how container soils work and the specific ingredients necessary to have them work best.

Interesting discussion. A little hard to filter out specific references to compost. But one is this ... 25% compost mixed with 60% builders sand and the rest perlite and or vermiculite seems to be fine for a raised bed cum container. Not quite sure where containers start here, and raised beds stop, though. Bark fines are considered good for containers because of the significant amount of lignin contained within them. Lignin breaks down very slowly, so it won't degrade and compact for along time. My compost is mostly fallen leaves, and pretty thick ones at that, so I have to believe that the lignin content of that compost is pretty high as a result. So I guess it depends a lot on what exactly your compost is made out of. Granted, the lignin content of bark is probably double that of leaves.

Containers and raised beds are two very different and distinct entities.

Containers are pots/buckets/tubs or almost completely enclosed, non-permeable, self-contained systems, except for a drainage hole(s). Raised beds are usually always bottomless and generally of a far more water permeable material on the sides (if they even have solid sides) than a container would be so drainage is always going to be better/faster in a raised bed regardless of soil composition. In most cases, a raised bed should just be considered an elevated inground gardening situation, nothing more, so the rules/methods that govern container culture really do not apply.

Thank you. That distinction wasn't clearly made in the lengthy discussion you pointed to. I think that discussion presumed that a raised bed was kind of equivalent to a very big container. The phrase "container cum raised bed" was used several times.

Now, that being said, putting a bottom with drainage holes on a raised bed makes it a container then, no? Not clear how drainage is fundamentally different when you put a bottom with drainage holes on. The water may pool slightly in the bottom, but eventually it's going to get out if the holes are big enough.

A few drainage holes in the bottom of a container does not offer anywhere near the virtually free drainage of a bottomless raised bed. Water will accumulate at the bottom of the container before it can drain out thoroughly and that's where you encounter the issues with a perched water table (very water retentive potting soil - like a peat or compost based mix - will hold on to the water until ALL the soil in the container dries, usually to the detriment of the plants). A bottomless raised bed constructed on bare ground/soil or even a cardboard covered lawn area will never develop a PWT (unless a very poorly draining clay soil) and the actions of plant roots, irrigation and soil biology will eventually allow incorporation of the base soil with the raised bed soil. That is just not a feature you will ever achieve in a container.

A raised bed that does have a solid bottom or one that is constructed on a concrete slab/patio or asphalt should be treated like a container. Drainage will be much more limited.

I wonder if a container with a thin screen across the bottom would drain well. I wonder why people don't do that. You could set it on the ground, and it could act like a raised bed, but you could move it around. I don't think you'll get a PWT with a screen on the bottom that blocks less than half the area. The screen is thin enough that the container would couple matrically to the soil underneath. Just a thought.

Most containers already come with bottoms :-) Seems somewhat pointless to cut out and remove a bottom (if you even can - wouldn't work on my collection of glazed ceramic pots!!) when just using a proper soil mix will accomplish the same. But if one did have a bottomless container it might work, but the ratio of soil depth to pot diameter may also have a slowing influence of drainage. Haven't researched it but in theory it makes sense. Most raised beds are far wider/longer than they are deep and that issue positively influences rapid drainage so the reverse seems just as plausible.

rosacea - Compost is primarily to improve soil characteristics like water retention, aeration, drainage.

It might add nutrients, but that's not the primary reason.

Very true that you'd need to cut the bottom off a container. But you'd like to believe that containers might be sold with some uncorrodable screen on the bottom, for people who don't want to be bothered with special container mix. The extra cost of such a special container might be negated by the economy with which it could be filled. Just an idea ...