tkhood

MSI Q Quartz

tkhood
February 21, 2017
I have been trying to find out which quartz options by MSI Stone use Breton technology and have been given so many different, inconsistent responses. The most recent response was that it doesn't matter if it uses Breton, they're all the same, and he can't tell me which ones do and which do not. Is it correct that any from China do not? If I pick one from Turkey and I am not sure what technology it uses, should that be okay? I am trying to avoid one made in China.

Comments (48)

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    I don't understand all this anti-Chinese quartz sentiment. I've seen no evidence that it is any better or worse than any other, Breton or not.

  • BW

    Well, Joseph, there are several threads on Houzz indicating that some of the Chinese quartz is fading, chipping, etc. because the resin isn't "cured" as long. Many Chinese products are great and some are not! Breton Technology is undeniably the safer way to go.

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  • granite guru

    I produced about 150 bathroom vanities for a hotel project that the client bought his own pure white quartz from china and shipped directly to us for fabrication. This crap was terrible it came out of the crates already covered in a yellow film from the musty wood and plastic from inside the shipping container. It was stubborn as hell to clean off but with some non recommended practices I got it. After the CNC I had to struggle again to remove the black rubber marks left from the cups that hold the pieces down. These rubber marks will also happen with some Silestone and Ceaserstone colors but is much easier to remedy than this Chinese quartz ( but still happens). When it comes to working with Quartz Cambria has my vote the gloss on their finish is comparable to a granite which helps repel all these stubborn stains. If you look at the finish on your quartz on an angle towards natural light and see a "sandy finish" and not a mirror then move on.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    Link(s) please?

  • BW

    I'm sorry that I haven't learned to do "links" yet but I've spent hours reading comments on Houzz and the info is there but you have to take the time to read comments on several sites. One site that does come to mind can be found if you search for "Colorquartz."

  • PRO
    A1 Plus Stone Design inc

    The situation in China is they dont have quality control high standards, so process and chemicals used are not controlled or verified.


    Companies like Silestone, Caesarstone, Cambria, and other known quartz utilizes technology from Breton, and they use at least 92% quartz as the base for their products, while chinese quartz manufacturers use technology Keda, which uses a whole different process, products and way less than 92% of quartz in the base of products they manufacture.

    Click : Here is a list of manufacturers of products of Breton.

    www.a1plusstonedesigninc.com


  • BW

    Granite Guru, Thank you so much for your candor and the "hint" regarding the glossy, mirrored finish. The Cambria is beautiful and I do trust it more than any other quartz , although I've read some negative comments re their customer service.

    I'd like Joseph Corlett to reply to Granite Guru's comment/experience with quartz since he obviously denying the negatives associated with some quartz, especially that from China.

  • granite guru
    Of course you read negative comments this is a forum that flourishes on people's problems all the big brands have negative comments. The problem at the end of the line is usually fabricator related and few and far in comparison with the amount of great work put out there but a happy costumer may tell a few friends where as a unhappy Costumer will scream it to the world!
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    granite guru had some film problems and black rubber marks, common to all quartz. That is a far cry from the unsubstantiated Chinese-bashing we hear here constantly.

    I have yet to hear of a remotely scientific study of non-Breton quartz being substantially inferior to Breton.


    I do know that were I a Cambria salesperson, I'd be going total logical fallacy of relevance ad hominem circumstantial about being manufactured stateside. I'd build my brand and sell it. There's no money competing against the Chinese on price, only bankruptcy.

  • BW

    Granite Guru's negative experience with the Chinese quartz was a bit more involved than portrayed by Joseph Corlett. I've also read on several sites that the Chinese quartz is more prone to staining, fading, chipping, etc. I've also read where the resin isn't cured as long in some (not all) of the Chinese quartz. I've bought some goods from China and much of it, of course, is fine. However, I think if you're going to put $15,000 in kitchen countertops (as I am), it would be wise to have the added protection of the Breton made quartz. Does that make ANY sense to those out there who can be fairly objective?

  • mwplay

    Interesting, MSI's brochure for Q, on page 5 indicates that they do use the "Bretonstone system of Breton". I wonder if they have a different name they use as a company.

    https://www.msistone.com/download/Q_Quartz_Countertop_Brochure.pdf



  • BW

    When I called MSI they readily stated that SOME of the "colors" (as they refer to the patterns) use Breton. They immediately sent me the list. Approximately 60% to 70% are made in China using non-Breton. Their brochure seems like an attempt to deceive.

  • KB L
    I am considering MSI and would love that list to see if it would work.

    Kalshelia
  • BW

    I've come full circle on the Breton technology. I spoke to a former fabricator who now works for the National Marble Institute. He was kind enough to spend time with me on the phone telling me that the Chinese quartz these days is much different than that of years past. He said that any problems arising will probably because of poor fabrication and not the product. He said the Chinese are eager to please the U.S. buyers and most of the quartz is more than fine. Thus, Joseph Corlett, LLC (see his comments above) may be correct on his stance regarding the Chinese quartz. I guess I had to spend months searching before I felt secure in considering the Chinese quartz. The rep from the National Marble Institute doesn't sell quartz anymore but assured me that I had nothing to worry about. I got his number off of an old blog and he was the most objective person I've talked to and I've talked to dozens of people. Hope that helps!

  • Gina France

    First, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post here. It has been extremely helpful. I am interesting in the MSI Laza color, which I have not yet seen. I couldn't find any postings of installation pictures yet on Houzz. Fortunately for me, there is an MSI distribution center here in Cleveland, and I called them about seeing a slab of the Laza. I must say, they could not have been more helpful. Best experience yet in my "perfect" quartz search. They have a shipment coming in next week, which I will go see. They also confirmed for me that the Laza color is made in Turkey, while Verona is made in China. Finally, they confirmed that the Laza color comes in 3 mm thickness, contrary to what is listed on the MSI website. Hope this is helpful to anyone trying to learn more about the Laza color.

  • BW

    How exciting. What does the Laza color look like?

  • Gina France

    White background with brown veining. I am trying to find the most realistic Calacutta marble look, and want brown or taupe veins vs. gray veins. Daltile ONE quartz in Calacutta and Zodiaq Calacutta Natura are also in the running, but I would like something slightly less stark. Both of those has strong brownish veins with not a lot of pattern in between. The MSI Q quartz looks like it has finer lines with more pattern between the veins, based on the picture of the slab on their website. But one definitely has to see a full slab in person to really tell. DH thinks I am crazy; I need to show him all the postings of people like me on the Houzz website! LOL.

  • BW

    In my opinion, the problem with most quartz is the pixel background. It's even in the Cambria quartz which I used to like when I started on my search and before I did my homework. (Pixels are those tiny dots for those of you who may not know.) Now, when I look at most quartz especially with the pixels, it spells "fake." So, be careful!

  • KB L
    Gina, I am looking at the Laza too. Only saw a small sample. Do take pictures when you see the full slab.
  • Noelle Martino

    here is a shot of a slab of the calacutta laza i went to see in person

  • liz kroeger

    Does anyone mind sharing pricing for Calacutta laza & Verona? It's exactly what i'm looking for but don't want to be disappointed if its out of budget.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    "In my opinion, the problem with most quartz is the pixel background. It's even in the Cambria quartz which I used to like when I started on my search and before I did my homework. (Pixels are those tiny dots for those of you who may not know.) Now, when I look at most quartz especially with the pixels, it spells "fake." So, be careful!"

    BW:

    You are conflating engineered stone, also known as "quartz" with sintered tops known as "porcelain" (Neolith, Dekton, etc.).

    Engineered stone (Cambria) has no pixels. Sintered tops have a pixilated picture manufactured into the surface.

  • BW

    Excuse me Mr. Corlett,, you can call it what you will (I won't argue semantics.), but Cambria quartz has pixel-like features in many of its more sedate designs -- and it looks fake, manufactured and, quite frankly, dated to many of us who have looked with awe at marble and quartzite. Do you happen to sell it?

  • Rigel Sh

    BW, yes I agree. Even Cambria looks pixelated and fake. I seriously considered Britannicca or Ella but they only look nice when far away. They look nothing like real marble or quartzite.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    "Do you happen to sell it?"


    No, but your question is the logical fallacy of relevance, ad hominem circumstantial to be specific.


    Whether or not I sell Cambria is irrelevant to my argument that it is not pixilated.

  • BW

    Mr. Corlett, Please look up "ad hominem" in Black's Law Dictionary so that you will use the term appropriately and, more importantly, accurately in the future.

  • Chessie

    That image of MSI Calacutta Laza is very nice. I don't look at quartz as trying to be anything else - but I have found many of the white-with-gray-veining patterns to have a very unappealing look. Cambria Britannica is one that comes to mind - I really dislike it. Also, many of them have annoying brown spots...and I did not want ANY brown in my counters. I do think the newer designs are getting much more appealing, and I am very happy with my Viatera.


    "They look nothing like real marble or quartzite." Why are you expecting them to?

  • BW

    Rigel Sh, Yes! I'm glad that you see what I see with regard to Cambria. What comes to mind with reference to Cambria and the many buyers, decorators, and even salespeople finally recognizing its pseudo-stone appearance is "The Emperor has no clothes!"

  • PRO
    Quartz - Stone Care, Cleaning & Repair Experts

    Well Joseph, if you knew anything about quartz stone, you will know it is not all made the same way, nor it is all the same durability, serviceability or easy to repair especially with cheap imports

    Stick to the major players like MSI, Cambria, Caesarstone, Silestone, Technistone, Quantra, Samsung and you can not generally go wrong. So of these brands are better than others with finishes, after sales service etc.

  • Chessie

    BW, LOL. No, it's not "The Emperor has no clothes!" at all. It's simply man-made material that for some reason, YOU are thinking it should look like a natural one. Vinyl floors look like..um...vinyl. Does that mean it's inferior? Frankly, it's absolutely perfect for an awful lot of people. Just because YOU don't like the look of something does not mean others feel the same.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    "Mr. Corlett, Please look up "ad hominem" in Black's Law Dictionary so that you will use the term appropriately and, more importantly, accurately in the future."


    BW:


    No need; it was used appropriately and accurately, I promise. You must address my arguments, not my circumstances or my vocabulary.

  • BW

    Mr. Corlett, I beg to differ as there was no personal attack.

  • BW

    Chess, My reference to the "Emperor..." was because Cambria has long been considered to be the best, most beautiful quartz and therefore the most expensive quartz and presumably so much better than granite, and now, finally, SOME people are recognizing or finally ADMITTING that it's not all that it's cracked up to be and some of it even a bit dated looking!! I'm glad I gave you a laugh!

  • Rigel Sh

    I agree with BW. I think quartz is a good material but over marketed as "superior" than other materials, which is definitely not true. Especially I am so tired of "marble looking" quartz being sold so expensive! They almost double their price around here recently. I was quoted 24K recently with Cambria Ella or Britannicca, lol (mid level granite was around 10K or less). There is no way I will pay for that kind of money with that fake looking thing.

    I like some of the quartz that don't try to be marble because it looks actually more natural and have its own beauty.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    "Mr. Corlett, I beg to differ as there was no personal attack."


    BW:


    You don't get to take my comments out of context. It is you that needs to familiarize yourself with "ad hominem CIRCUMSTANTIAL".

  • Chessie

    "My reference to the "Emperor..." was because Cambria has long been considered to be the best, most beautiful quartz and therefore the most expensive quartz "

    I must have come onto the quartz landscape after that time. When I first started looking at it, the fabricators I talked to, while telling me that Cambria was the priciest choice, also informed me there was no good reason for it to be, and therefore it was not the best value. But they also said that "lots of people choose it because they market it well".

    So clearly, the fabricators in my neck of the woods see no benefit at all in the Cambria brand. It's just another quartz, and frankly, one that has no patterns at all that I even considered. I eliminated them on looks long before I ever discussed cost.

  • TJ Smith

    I have been shopping for a counter for a while. Have done a ton of reading and there is plenty of Chinese quartz out there. Al lot of these house brands quartz that you see are made in China. Not all of course but a lot. I am an engineer by trade and did not really know anything about counters until recently.

    Pretty much everything you can buy today is made in China. That includes things like people's iPhone, their computers, their clothes and their kitchen stuff. Not everything of course but lots of well made things are now made in China. It also does not mean that everything made in China is well made.

    Regardless if you go on youtube there is a bunch of videos showing how quartz is made and that includes Chinese made quartz. I have watched a bunch of them. With the Chinese quartz - some are heavily mechanized just like Breton while others have more human labor.

    As for whether Chinese quartz is worse than Breton quartz, that I don't know.

    One thing is for sure after watching all of the videos is that you come to realize that quartz advertising is actually quite misleading. Quartz is not any more "natural" than solid surface/Corian and laminate. Its manufactured out of a bunch of materials and that include resin. That whole 93% natural quartz is somewhat misleading as they make it sound its just like stone. Its not just like stone - its completely synthetic. That does not mean its bad, its just how its made.

    People don't realize that the resin that binds the quartz together is completely synthetic. I think the resin they use as binder is similar to the resin used in manufacturing fiberglass. The reason I say that is because I have read it turns yellow if exposed to a lot of sunlight, that means UV light. Thats exactly what resin does on boats, cars, surfboards and anything else that uses a clear resin. It becomes brittle as well. I know lots about resin and fiberglass as I have done tons of works on both boats and cars that use resin for repairs.

    Bottomline is that quartz is a man made product. Its a lot closer to solid surface/Corian than anyone would every like to admit. The difference is that solid surface uses polymer not resin in its manufacturing. Its a lot more color stable than quartz.

    Yes quartz is harder than solid surface but there is nothing natural about it.

  • BW

    Mr. Cortlett: In reply to your statement, "You don't get to take my comments out of context...," please realize you don't make any rules here or tell any one what they can and cannot do and I was not out of context. I'm looking for information on this forum, not an argument. I believe your comments were merely subjective and (hopefully) not driven by self-interest. I stand by my prior comment to you.

  • BW

    TJ Smith, In your opinion then, would you say that the "whiteish" quartz, like London Sky, is apt to turn yellow?

  • TJ Smith

    I have seen the MSI slabs myself as there is a giant MSI warehouse 30 minutes from me. I was considering quartz along with Corian and granite. Now I am fairly sure we are going to do Corian.

    I don't know if all quartz will turn yellow as it ages. I have read repeatedly that quartz is not to be stored outside and that it does change color if its exposed to lots of sunlight. Just from my reading the composition of quartz counters - its made with natural quartz stone, marble, granite and other stones mixed with resin. After mixing it, they compress it, bake it and than polish it.

    Quite honestly it sounds just like solid surface - which is polymer mixed with bauxite powder which is a kind of stone. Thats why I said they are more similar than people realize.

    I have read of people complaining about it changing color with the sun:

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/does-sunlight-fade-any-types-of-countertop-dsvw-vd~2688567

    To me it sounds just like any other resin.

    Pretty much all resin turns yellow and becomes brittle if it is exposed to sunlight (uv). Does that mean all quartz will turn yellow over time? How much sunlight will cause it to change? Those are good questions and I bet the manufacturers don't want to talk about it.

    This is just from my reading and I am not an expert by any means. There is a lot of hype around quartz and it commands a premium price. I just wanted to understand what I am buying and the pro/cons of each.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC

    The International Surface Fabricator's Association (ISFA), considers engineered stone a solid surface similar to Corian and other acrylic/polyesters with ATH filler. So one of the trade associations of the industry agrees with you.

  • TJ Smith

    Interesting that International Surface Fabricator's Association (ISFA) states that considering all the quartz company advertising continually hypes the 93% natural quartz angle. They don't mention that its by weight not volume. Regardless my observation is that quartz is by no means natural. its a man made material just like Corian.

    Heck I only learned recently that granite counters many times are coated with resin to fill in the holes and bring out the colors. To top it off they put steel rods into it to reinforce it. Hardly natural either, its been enhanced.

    Quartz has pluses & minuses like every other material.

  • Chessie

    Of course it does. No one should expect anything different.

  • PRO
    Quartz - Stone Care, Cleaning & Repair Experts

    93-97% quartz is indeed by weight and quartz is 2200kg per m3, meaning that the fillers, binders etc are much, much less in weight.

    The result is generally 18-25% of the surface area is not quartz

  • HU-810376302

    I recently purshased Venice Quartz for my kitchen and butlers pantry spent 8k from MSI and I can’t get the stains out. Anything from a cermaic bowl that was placed in the counter left a mark.

    I was writting a note and the pencil got on the quartz that didn’t come outb either. A post- it orange left a stain. The installers had to come back to replace some courts and they were able to get it out with lacquer thinner. They said not to use that chemical on the quartz very often but for stubborn stains that would work and it did . I am very Disappointed in the quality of this product I would definitely not recommend quartz from MSI. I have never made a comment negative about anything. But I spend hard earned money on my kitchen counters.

  • Misty Becken

    Same! We had MSI shadow gray for about 2 weeks and had MULTIPLE chips! now they‘ve made me scared to get ANY quartz! We are looking at Corian

  • PRO
    D Old Granite LLC

    Misty Becken : that happens because the engineered is still in its learning curve; granite is tested and approved

  • kingadrian

    I have Silestone quartz all over my house, it's the White North color. I am not sure where it's made from, but I can attest to it that it does chip. I don't know what caused the chip especially the area where the chip is not in high traffic area. The chip is very minor, on the top edge, but it is still a chip. Also, the granite company said the Silestone is stain resistant, which is somewhat true, however, I had a damp metal trivet sit on the countertop overnight, next morning I see rust stain. I had to use alcohol wipes to remove it. So there is my opinion of my Silestone so far.

    I had a Costa Esmeralda green granite in my previous house, and it's much stronger than Silestone.

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