Mine is about to flower so i will pay attention here.

How about a picture of the tree?

Pictures! Hoping this will help! Ran out to get them before it got dark!

This is the tree overall. This was the one with the worst CLM leaves in late Feb, but has been fighting them off after fertilizer and neem oils were started.

Overall it is doing better, with plenty of buds as below

This is the part where all the buds had fallen. There were about 20-30 buds fallen on the ground below this cluster.

Thanks, Jason! I was told to keep fertilizing till June! Let me see if I can find any information on that, and I'll share if I hear anything to the contrary!

Keep fertilizing! I don't see anything abnormal with your trees. We've had wind and rain... which will knock blossoms off the tree. Again - all normal and keep feeding!

Oh, and the trees will drop fruit too. If you want to let the tree grow bigger, you can help it by picking the pea-sized fruit off... limit the trees to 3-6 each. [I've fought this popular suggestion for many years, but looking back it is the way to go]. - George

Thanks, George! I was hoping you and some of the others who have helped so much would pitch in!

Relax. Your tree looks very healthy. Leaf miner, while ugly, won't hurt the tree much except in extreme cases and your tree looks fine. It will continue to drop buds, flowers, tiny yellow fruit, more mature dark green fruit, and even almost ripe limes. Don't over fertilize. Follow the directions on the fertilizer and let the tree do its thing. I might even suggest pulling any fruit off the tree in a few months to allow it to concentrate growing instead of trying to put out a few fruit.

fireball - please define "over fertilize". The reason I ask is that (in my not so humble opinion) the (fertilizer) package instructions are baseline and for perfect conditions; they have been useless for me. I need to (at least) double the amounts due to:

competing established landscaping

slope

type (organics are slooooowwww to provide nutrients - they need to decompose)

decomposing wood mulch

placement - that is - getting the fertilizer to the feeder root location(s)

amount of fruit produced

irrigation / water washout

So therefore, for my 4-8 year old trees I am on track to give them 19 to 26 cups or more of a combination high N inorganic... with transition to low N beginning in June/July. This dosage will barely keep my highly productive Lisbons and Tango fully green

Nothing to be concerned about. 95 to 98 percent of blossoms are normally discarded by the tree. If only 2 percent of the blossoms produced fruit, it would be a good crop. Citrus blossoms compete with each other for nutrients and proteins. The losers in the competition are discarded. If every blossom produced fruit, it would crush the tree..

George, I may actually be overfertilizing! I think the trees were so starved they are doing better for it, but I suspect I may have to ease back a little soon. You had said to feed until July, and I was wondering if you could give me more guidance on what to do after that?

Right now my trees are each getting a tablespoonful of AS once a week and five gallons of a solution of 1.5 teaspoon of Jack's per gallon, and a squirt of Pro-tekt added first to the water once a week. I did get Foliage Pro too, and I may have tried that once or twice instead of the Jack's.

The net result of this has been the aforementioned growth flush and lots of buds on two of the trees, and lots of leaves and no buds on the Washington Navel. A finger lime and Meyer's in the front yard have also been getting this, and the finger lime is blooming at last, the Meyer's was so pest damaged, it has got one spray of buds, but mostly showing a better fight against the pests by looking healthier.

I think last week's rain and wind may have led to the bud drop, but oddly, they all fell from one branch on the north side of the tree.

Thanks, everyone!

kc: I do not see any evidence of "over fertilizing" in your trees. I also do not see the need for the "jack's" et al; save that fancy stuff (and your money) when you have a tree that needs intensive care.

To quote another esteemed member here on this forum - "it is very difficult to overfertilize an in-ground [citrus]". Now, I must admit that I did some damage years ago via "overfertilizing"... but it turned out that it was not due to too much fertilizer... but rather too little irrigation along with the fertilizer.

If you want big, green, healthy and productive citrus trees, you must feed them, and feed them well (with a high N inorganic). [hot tip: NitraKing is on sale at Ewing]. Once the trees get to a size you want and are producing fruit, you can back off somewhat. Until then, feed and get them to adolescence /adulthood before the freezes and bugs give you misery.

Unless it was a fast hard down pour of rain, I doubt that the rain had much to do with the tree's blossom drop. It is definitely true, as written above, that a great majority of flowers are normally discarded by the tree. Only an extremely small percentage of blooms remain on the tree to develop into fruit. Your small tree seems to be going through the flowing process in a normal manner. The best you can do at this time is to insure that the tree receives adequate watering. Lastly, I don't mean to be quarrelsome, but it is quite easy to over fertilize an in ground citrus tree. Even if over fertilizing did not cause great damage, it causes it to grow very soft and leggy. Fertilizing too much when the tree has a healthy appearance may actually cause it to produce inferior fruit.

Silica, we will have to agree to disagree - to some degree. I would agree with you that there is reduced benefit to fertilize a mature, large tree - so ok, could over fertilize. But, I am coming from the assumption (and in this thread) that the grower has a non-mature tree, and wants a healthy large tree that will produce fruit some year in the future. The priority is to get the tree beyond the stage where it is vulnerable to freezes and attacks by CLM. KC's trees are young, small and in this category. They are not ready to produce large quantities of fruit. And, we have already established that they had been underfed.

I stand by my re-quote that it is very difficult to over fertilize an in-ground [citrus]. I was one that did not believe it... until I did a side by side comparison... doubling the irrigation to one of them. I was burning roots on the tree that I thought was "overfertilized"... only because I was too skimpy on the irrigation (we were in a severe drought).

It is one thing to put down the fertilizer... it is another thing to get the darn persnickety tree to take it up and grow! - George

Oh, as far as the blossom drop... Absolutely do observe lots of if as a normal occurrence. Note that we had significant winds in the SF Bay area the past week. Blossoms were ripped off of many of me trees... and depending on the location / exposure of the tree to the wind, leaves were stripped too. I was raking lots of citrus leaves yesterday evening.

Molewacker, It is always OK to disagree. Actually, about the fertilizing of in ground citrus trees the older the tree the more fertilizer is required -- but to a point.

The fertilizer amount recommendation by UCR for in ground citrus trees is:

1 year old citrus tree --- 0.15 to 0.30 Lbs actual nitrogen/tree/year ( split between 6 applications/year)

2 year old citrus tree -- 0.30 to 0.60 Lbs actual nitrogen/tree/year ( split between 5 applications /year)

3 year old citrus tree -- 0.45 to 0.90 Lbs. actual nitrogen/tree/year (split between 4 applications/year)

4 year old citrus tree -- 0.80 to 1.0 Lbs. actual nitrogen /tree/year (split between 3 applications/year)

5+ year old citrus tree -- 1.1 to 1.4 Lbs. actual nitrogen/tree/year (split between 3 applications/year)

Divide "Lbs fertilizer nitrogen/tree/year" by "Applications/year" to determine how many lbs fertilizer to apply each application.

Molewacker, have a great growing season.

Goodness, Silica! Almost a pound of nitrogen in 4 feedings makes that a quarter pound of fertilizer per feeding!! Even with what I thought was George's heavy feeding regimen, I am nowhere near that!

I bought a 20 pound bag of AS which is 21% nitrogen, and I would guess so far my trees have gotten a teaspoon a week for about 10 weeks! At about 80 teaspoons to a pound, I have given them about an 8th of the amount of a 21% nitrogen fertilizer, which is 1/5 the volume of my AS?

Ugh math! To give them 1/4 pound of nitrogen 1/4 times a year, I would have to give them 1.25 pounds of AS each time? George, I'm still underfeeding them!!! WAIL!!!

Thank you so much, all of you, for your thoughtful responses! As a grade school teacher myself, I do appreciate the explanations and the endless patience!

Most importantly, I cannot believe the progress my plants have made since February and for that alone, Molewacker, and Silica, and Meyermike and Johnmerr and others I am forgetting, thank you!!

Notice the range of application shown. For a 3 year old tree the application rate is from a low of 0.45 Lbs. actual N/tree/year up to 0.90 Lbs. actual N/tree/year. This range covers the difference between fertilizing small growing cultivars and large grown cultivars . Remember when you fertilize, you need to apply adequate water.

If you have not been feeding the tree enough the last couple of years, it may be closer to a 2 year old tree in size. If the leaves are dark green, it is getting enough N. Just remember as the tree gets larger, it will need more fertilizer. It should flush grow 5 or 6 times a year. If it does not have enough N at the time it would normally flush, it will not put out the new growth.

Citrus lose blooms and fruits more than most other fruits. It is natural and nothing to be concerned with.

Sorry for the late reply. "fireball - please define "over fertilize". " All that nitrogen is going to do the same thing to the tree that it does to your lawn. It's going to cause lots of bright green leaves and vegetative branches, commonly called water sprouts or shoots. These are the very fast growing green branches that tend to seek the sunlight, growing straight up through everything else.

For fruiting wood, blossoms, etc, you want lots of phosphorus, and potassium. That, along with the trace elements in a good fertilizer, will promote lots of blossoms, lots of fruit. It's become quite in vogue on this site to recommend heavy doses of nitrogen and yeah, it gives very quick results but not the results we are looking for. I find that if you stick with the recommended amounts of fertilizer on the package, the scientists who developed the fertilizer will have done all the figuring for you. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Most soils have adequate amounts of phosphorous. The only way to really tell how much phosphorous and potassium is with a soils test. Nitrogen is almost always low and many specialist recommend monthly doses on citrus.

You can over fertilize but it looks like you are on the way to getting the tree growing correctly. Citrus seems to need more nitrogen than stone fruits. Most plants use Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium in a 3:1:2 ratio. However, your soil may naturally have phosphorous and potassium, so only nitrogen will need to be added.

I was under the impression that most soils are not deficient in phosphorus. I was typing while Gary was typing. I agree with Gary,

Well, my trees have never had a growth flush in four years! They have grown slowly, and had no flowers, and this year I thought (as many of you know) that the growth flush was some kind of disease that caused my plant to sprout fine needles all over! I suspect my soil is absolutely awful, being mostly compacted clay and construction debris in the past, and the roto-tilling and amendments prior to grading only went so far. I had fertilized them with several cups of citrus fertilizer in fall until now, and nothing else, and obviously that did nothing!

In fact, until Gary's comment above, I didn't even realize I can expect more growth flushes this year!! More rain tomorrow, off to get some fertilizer on the ground in anticipation!

Under any consideration, whether the soil has plenty of phosphorous or not, citrus does not require much phosphorous . Above, Gary wrote that the absorption ratio is 3-1-2, (which is a common ratio for many plants) however according to research by Dugo and Di Giacomo which can be found in the text book "The Genus Citrus" that the nutrient absorption ratio for citrus trees is 5-1-3. It can be seen from the citrus ratio a citrus tree does not require much phosphorous , but does require larger quantities of nitrogen and potassium.

Many people around me make the mistake of not fertilizing with nitrogen on their citrus trees. The grass around the trees can also use up nitrogen. Like yours they just sit there and stay the same size, I would caution to not apply too much nitrogen. Remember that even though your tree is 4 years old, it is the same size as when you first planted it. I would fertilize according to the tree being a 2 or 3 year old tree, not a 4 year old tree.

Good luck with your tree, It is looking good.

Thank you so much! Who knew how slowly citrus buds grow! It seems like weeks from spotting the first little peppercorn sized bud to its slowly growing about an inch big, and then finally opening up like a flower! Is that normal too?

Yes it can take awhile. Enjoy the perfume while it lasts!

Thanks!