Do you cook a lot? Frying, wok, grilling? If you don't cook a lot with high temperatures a choice that is mostly aesthetic will have less impact to YOU.

Do you have space behind the range for a downdraft? Most people don't unless it's on an island.

Frank Lloyd Wright had the fortunate ability to build from scratch. This is a remodel, so the damage has been done. In essence, it's an open concept kitchen with a soaring ceiling. The hood would have to go 22ft to the roof blocking the million dollar views and expensive windows. There is no wall to locate this hood unless I rebuild half the house and that's just stupid. The kitchen is a double island with a half wall on 1 side and a partial wall of pantry on the other. I can't open up the pantry wall - it's already an 8" thick wall to accommodate the beam holding up the master suite. The architect did supply options, they just are so far out of budget that it isn't worth it.

I have an Electrolux Icon grill the size of a small car outside and I don't fry or own a wok. The grill does infrared. I do occasionally sear things on the stove.

I've seen gorgeous hoods done in similar kinds of spaces by clever people. The chimney has to be taken as an artistic challenge rather than an obstruction. It can enhance your space and give it context, if you let it.

Or investigate induction. It won't put combustion stuff in the air, puts much more of the energy coming into the unit into the pan, handles just as well as gas (given a decent unit with proper power and sufficient power levels), and can give you a much cleaner look than a range. You can put an oven below counter in the island, but you don't have to put it under the cooktop and stand in front of it if you don't want to. If you're stuck on the look of a pro-style range, you can have the shell of one built as a cabinet covered in steel, and put an oven with a chunky handle in it and a great induction cooktop on top.

Then, if you put in a downdraft, it won't do any more for you in terms of capture than for gas, but there's no flame to pull out of shape, and no by-products of combustion to give people asthma, etc.

You may well be in a situation where a hood vent simply is not feasible
in your dream kitchen. That is just how things are. We work with the
kitchens we have. A pop-up will be better than nothing.

But that isn't saying much.

Particularly with the units from Viking and Wolf that you mentioned --- which actually are more "side drafting" from "pop-up" or "telescoping" risers. The Viking and Wolf are pretty short. (Nine inches, or less, IIRC.) Now, to be sure, they certainly can be placed behind a stove if that is what you really want. You just need deeper than normal counters to accommodate the additional hardware behind the stove; otherwise the hardware makes your stove stick our several inches further than standard depth base cabinets and counters.

As for whether these side pull downdrafts actually work --- well, that's a different story.

Rather than give you a technical explanation of function trying to fight with physics, let me suggest a practical demonstration. Get a pot of water to boiling. Put your vacuum cleaner hose along the wall behind your current stove. Run it parallel against the wall with the end of the hose about ten inches above the stovetop. Turn the vacuum on. How well do you see the vacuum capturing the steam and heat from back there. Now try it with the pot on a front burner where the steam is even further away.

Still, if you must go with a pop-up rear vent, get one as tall as you can so you aren't fighting the physics of rising plumes of heat and cooking effluvia so much. IIRC, I think Best makes one that goes up to 18" high, and there are some others that run around 14" to 15" inches high.

I was looking at the Best Cottura (not sure if I spelled that correctly) it rises 18". I currently have a 30 year old GE downdraft and it still works fine. I should also mention that this kitchen is open to the other living spaces, including the upstairs bedrooms, so noise is a huge factor. I can hear the ice drop when I'm in my bedroom. I was also told that the motor required to power such an exhaust hood up 22ft would be akin to a jet engine. There's no clearance (the ceiling is the roof) to put it there.

Wow! This is like old times fighting over configurations. Sorry for the late appearance, I am busy tuning and overclocking a bleeding edge PC, along with the usual spring home and garden tasks. The key forum thread for this PC configuration has acquired over 16,000 messages since March 3, and keeping up with it is more difficult than keeping up with the Kitchen Forum just before the 2008 depression.

Anyway, hot greasy cooking plumes with entrained gas combustion effluent can rise at over a meter per second, significantly higher than steam from boiling water. Redirecting a meter per second plume velocity sideways (keeping in mind conservation of momentum and Newton's laws) to a pop-up vent aperture requires a much higher air velocity at the aperture such that it hasn't fallen below the plume velocity at the cooking pan/pot. And air velocity falls rapidly with distance from an aperture; see description and graphs on pages 30.3 and 30.4 of the 2003 ASHRAE HANDBOOK, HVAC Applications. Hence, the side draft has difficulty performing the essential task of a hood, plume capture and containment.

"I was also told that the motor required to power such an exhaust hood up 22ft would be akin to a jet engine." This was disinformation by the teller. Duct length is one of the least pressure loss contributors among all those that determine a given blower's actual flow rate (not the rated flow rate). Baffle pressure loss and make-up air pressure loss usually dominate. And hot gases want to rise, not move sideways and then down.

I personally doubt that a side-draft will be quieter than a hood with a roof blower and in-line silencer. On the other hand, you may not need to run either very much at full power if most greasy cooking is done outside.

If all the heavy cooking (including searing) is to be done outside, then a side draft is fine; in fact, the usual poser magazine kitchen with no visible ventilation would be OK unless one were generating very high amounts of water vapor such as from boiling down maple syrup. If searing is to be done inside, and a side draft is de rigueur, sear on back burners right under the aperture and hope for the best. Future owners can decide whether they want to deal with the grease and odor of normal indoor cooking. I assure you that grease not captured at the range will be deposited over all the ceiling, walls and furnishings in the open concept house.

Also, don't forget that all the air that actually leaves via the ventilation has to be replaced one way or the other, so make-up air (MUA) has to be considered with all of its ramifications. There is always matching MUA, but if it is too little, the hood/side-draft flow will also be too little. And there are safety considerations from pulling down the house pressure without adequate MUA.

In summary, I stand with the others here who recommend designing around a proper hood if one intends to actually cook. Pro ranges need pro ventilation.

kas

So, again - I can't get a hood in my house. It just isn't possible. That's a done deal.

My question was actually whether there is a difference between a pro style and drop in higher end cooktop if the BTUs are the same? I was told that I could downdraft a drop in but not a pro style and I'm wondering why that was said?

This house has had a downdraft for 30 years. There is no build up of smoke and grease all over - and this house hasn't been painted (interior) and still has the original carpet. Given the state of the appliances when we moved in, I assure you normal family cooking (and not cleaning) were normal.

Maybe because rangetops are larger than dropin cooktops? I dunno.

I'm just laughing that "boiling down maple syrup" came up in the discussion. Can't say why.

Sorry, I was responding to the apparent ventilation question, not a cooktop question. Others will have to weigh-in on whatever merits pro-style cooktops might have over non-pro-style cooktops.

I will observe that your existing downdraft is evidently incredible, and you should keep using it.

Yeah, I don't live in Vermont, and I seroulsly doubt any attempts to get sap out of a redwood tree will be fruitful.... I appreciate the informed ventilation info, and I really tried to get a hood in. I just can't cut up a post and beam open concept house. Very few of the walls aren't load bearing. I think we'll be fine with the Broan downdraft. It's the best on the market. Fish is staying outside.

Have you considered induction instead of gas?

In general with a downdraft, the unit goes below the cooktop, and it takes up a bit of space. If you're doing a range, there may not be enough space or you'll need to bump out behind the range or have much deeper cabinets.

It's going in an island, so space isn't a problem.

Drop-in cooktops rarely have as much power as pro rangetops. Yes, they may have a "power burner" with a "pro level" BTU rating, but that's just one burner. With a pro rangetop, all the burners will be that powerful, so if you have a bunch going at once, there's just no comparison.

I'm surprised you saw a picture on Wolf's website with a downdraft behind a pro range, given they have a whole page dedicated to telling you not to do it: http://www.subzero-wolf.com/assistance/answers/14-downdraft-installed-with-a-dual-fuel-or-gas-range

Viking also has it on their website.

Just curious, could you point me to the page where you see that on Viking's website? I just checked the home page, the downdraft page, and the range page and didn't see any, but it's a big website so I easily could have missed it.

Remember, marketing types just want to get all the appliances in a kitchen setting, single shot. Those aren't real kitchens.

Kas, so sorry. I just meant I was leaving the science to you, not demanding your attention.

Heather, Were you living in the house all those years? Or did the prior owners clean everything? Is the "patina" on the wood from aging shellack, or is it cooking grease? Do you know how to tell the difference? Did the prior people mostly make pasta on the stove and cook the meat in the oven, thereby not really challenging the downdraft? You may be less sensitive to it all than some of us are, or it may have been scrubbed up.

Really and truly look at induction. If you're going with downward ducting, it would work better.

If you must have gas, your salesman was right. Hvtech described why. A gas cooktop isn't great with a downdraft. A pro-style range is ineligible. In some places, it's actually illegal. I suppose there may be a few ranges on the market that have a pro look, but ordinary guts. That might be another alternative.

Specs on Viking's website clearly say, "coordinates with all cooktops and rangetops"

http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/product/products/ventilation/rear-downdrafts/professional-versavent-rear-downdrafts/rear-downdrafts-with-controls-on-front/36--rear-downdraft-w--controls-on-front---vdd#product-more-info

Hence the confusion.

I know you were trying to be helpful in suggesting my house is full of grease damage and that I didn't know the difference, but your mistaken. What you wrote is actually pretty offensive.

Look, you gotta do what you gotta do. Most people on this website are used to dealing with remodelers who want a downdraft because "hoods are ugly." Clearly that isn't the case here, you've looked over all the options, and when you have a 22 foot ceiling and no exterior walls your hands are tied. Most people aren't going to tell you to skip the pro range just because you can't have a hood. The Best Kattura looks impressive compared to the other downdrafts on the market, it seems like they thought of every possible accessory to offer and configuration to describe. If you're going to do this, that's clearly the downdraft to go with. There aren't any code requirements to have a specific type of ventilation, or have ventilation of a minimum effectiveness, so you're good on that front.

The only caveat is, I'd be wary of the marketing claims that this thing works "as well as a hood." But as long as you have the right expectations, I don't think you'll regret this. Pro ranges go into NYC apartments with no ventilation at all and the customers are satisfied. These apartment dwellers have often been used to that lifestyle for decades, they know what living with bad ventilation is like and they know they will never have good ventilation. Similarly, as long as you're not expecting hood-like performance from this thing, I think you'll be happy. It will help that you're already used to downdraft ventilation.

Thanks, i don't have my heart set on a particular stove, just that I want separate cooktop and ovens. It's unlikely I'll turn on all the burners on high anyway. This is a residence, not a restaurant. My house is very "unique" and the kitchen was designed around the views - and not very well. I had to close up the "pirate window" from my master bedroom that looked down into the kitchen - no window, the wall was just open with shutters. The house is cooled by transom windows at the top of the roofline and 2 70" ceiling fans. I can legitimately say that this home doesn't have poor ventilation. Not with the amount of huge windows and French doors. But I do have to live with some limitations - this hood thing is 1 of them. BTW I don't think the GE downdraft works very well at all. It's also 30 years old. The first thing I did was install a/c - and shore up the water system.

Apologies, Heather, I didn't mean to offend. It actually can be quite difficult to tell the difference between grease build up and old shellac which is why I asked. Same for the rest. I wanted to help you think through how much was assumption, or perhaps miscommunication between us, and how much was indubitable. I was reacting to when you said, "I currently have a 30 year old GE downdraft and it still works fine." Though now you've said, "BTW I don't think the GE downdraft works very well at all." I had had a very hard time believing that the old downdraft works fine--I'm now guessing that you meant it turns on, but it sounded like you meant that it did a fine job (given his comment about keeping it, I think Kas read it that way too). So that's my explanation, which I offer for clarity and in no way is meant as an excuse. The apology is sincere, blanket and unreserved.

Truly, I didn't mean to offend.

I also apologise for uptopic forgetting that you said "rangetop" rather than range, and making a post more relevant to the latter.

The downdraft "coordinates with all cooktops and rangetops" on your linked page is under "appearance". That's written by marketing folks to say they'll look good together because they just want you to buy it and don't care about function. Under "performance" it merely says that it's better than other downdrafts, as I think we all agree the 18" ones are (it's probably the same one as the Best with a Viking badge on it). The only major claim is "Four speed blower efficiently handles all types of cooking" but since it doesn't define "efficiently", the marketing folks who wrote it can say it means different kinds of cooking require different speeds, and that it isn't a claim about the actual efficiency of the downdraft system at all.

Hvtech is right that there are people who just live without
ventilation. We think of you as one of our friends and that you shouldn't have to be one of them. I hear all the
time about people who never even used the bad vents in their previous
kitchens who were astounded when they got good hoods at how it changed
their lifestyles. Given that hoodless the reality of your house, the 18" one is likely going to be your best choice.

As to the pro-style rangetop, since it sounds like you're not wedded to the style, and also that you don't expect to crank up the dragon's breath inside the house, your best choice is going to be the regular cooktop, like the salesman said. If you have plentiful electricity, however, I urge you again to check into induction. The flame distortion is real, and really annoying...

Thank you for your reply. I understand the damage smoke can do to the house. My housekeepers have been slowly deep cleaning this house and we recently did the ceilings. Amazing how much sap had oozed and cobwebs. We had to wear hats it was so bad, but no grease. The beams are coated in an oil based polyurethane and are in good condition.

The only thing I'm worried about with induction is scratches on the cooktop. My husband is an electrician, so there's always plenty of electricity. I can use a plate with my scanpans (inherited) and the rest of my cookware should be fine.

My other issue regarding gas vs electric was alliviated when my husband showed up with a backup generator - enough to power the neighborhood. We were without power for 5 days this winter. (A landslide took the poles out like a zipper).

Yikes! I get the landslides (we have them in the Southland too) but that zipper comment was quite visual!

Re induction, the "induction plate", if that's what you were referring to, is mainly sold to separate you from some of your money. Imagine putting a heavy griddle or frying pan on the stove and putting your pot in it to cook. Or try it. That's what the induction plate is. You can cook that way, sort of, but it's very inefficient and also annoying. Besides the pans you already have that would work, there are many inexpensive sets that people are quite happy with if you need to replace a few pans right away. The pan issue shouldn't be the deciding factor unless you have an extensive and beloved collection of Mauviel copper or something.

The good news is that scratches aren't hard to prevent on induction. The reason to care is that crystals of salt or sugar can actually score the ceramic-glass the way a glass cutter's wheel would. A certain amount of use clattering later--probably long after--acts like the tapping that turns the score into a crack, along which the glass can be broken in two, and suddenly, fwoam! Broken cooktop. The makers also warn of burrs on the bottoms of rough pans, but I'd think they'd have to be sharp. Sanding burrs off the bottoms of your pans won't hurt them any. Keeping a damp sponge or something by the stove (such as at a nearby sink or in a decorative tray) means you can just wipe up the spills before you slide your pans across them making the fatal scratches. Just hold the far end of the sponge so you don't steam your fingers. The cooktop doesn't get hot enough to burn the sponge or anything. Lift your pot, wipe, put the pot back. No biggie!

Having an electrician with a vested interest is such a boon! Before my new kitchen went in, we put in a lot of solar and a new draw, doubling the service, because it's a big house and the old kitchen was gas, and I was putting in a lot of appliances to be used at night. :) Sometimes an older house may need an upgrade, even if not as much as I did. :) Run the specs for induction and the new oven(s) by him and see what he says. :) I think you said you have an outdoor grill, so you'd be covered after an earthquake if the generator weren't sufficient (i.e., you want it for other than cooking).

The generator will power the entire neighborhood. It runs off propane and came from a phone substation. They're still working on the roads, ours is still out, so I have to drive the long way around. Did you see "the chasm" on TV? About 3 miles up the road from us, HWY 35 collapsed for 300 ft. That is a big mess, but they got a bypass road open for construction and emergency services. Our road collapsed into the neighbor's yard. Similar to HWY 35, but only about 20ft. The rain came down so hard the pressure blew the drainage pipes like explosives would. We got about 100 inches of rain this season, which is about 3x too much. I'd be further along with my remodel, but all the roads are limited to 2 axle (weight restrictions) and resident traffic only until they're fixed. At least we didn't have any storm damage.

Oh and electricity was cheaper than gas from the 60's through the 90's, so most houses advertised "all electric kitchens". Not the case anymore and we have electronic ignition now. Lol.

Wow! Both to "the chasm" and the generator. I thought you just meant a bigass generator. I can only imagine what they had in the substation. I googled the landslide. The drainpipes exploding is mindboggling. I can't even imagine 100 inches! In SoCal, anything above 30" for the season is a monster of great destruction and usually loss of life. When I was young, during one of those years, I was entering codes at my job for why people cancelled service. I complained to my boss that we didn't have one for "property no longer exists".

So, what does this mean for the cooktop choice? Would you be happy with induction? I, myself, would rather go without a vent than have the flames pulled by a downdraft, but you may feel differently about it.

A substation generator? Lordy! Kas used to be the kid on the block with the biggest generator, but I suspect yours beats his 20kW unit. :>)

With that much back-up power, I would second the suggestion to consider induction except that you apparently have designed around a rangetop. I do not recall seeing a residential rangetop induction cooker. AFAIK, they're all drop-in cooktops. Anybody know different?

I had a friend who had an 80kw generator with its own 2000 gallon propane tank. Whenever the power went out, everyone would come over for the ensuing party.

Well, remember phones are low voltage... It's a straight 6 Ford motor fed by 2 500 gallon tanks. Why 2 tanks? Because you need a special permit to have a 1k tank, which they don't grant to residences. The fire dept doesn't like propane tanks in a high fire danger area. Can't say I blame them. But it's kinda silly. They banned propane and charcoal grills in high density apts and condos. It's electric or nothing on your balcony. And on spare the air days where the air pollution is too high, no wood burning fireplaces. Our county doesn't issue new permits for wood burning anything - including pellets. Draconian? Yes. But 17k fewer child asthma ER visits the first year this was in place and it's obvious. Adapt or become Beijing. The population is too high.

I'm looking at drop ins. It just seems silly to have 6 burners of 15k BTUs when I rarely turn on 3- even when entertaining.

Ah ha! I found it. You can view the 48" model paired with a Wolf range here: http://www.bestrangehoods.com/PDF/Reference_Sheets/D49M_Reference_Sheet.pdf

Incidentally, I contacted the manufacturer and they said it's rated and the you tube videos of the performance are pretty impressive. My 30 year old GE doesn't have enough power to suck in steam right in front of it, let alone distort a flame. I wonder if it was this bad new.

Im going to take a look at induction, but the glass scratching is a big turnoff for me.

This is a long thread so I hope I am not repeating. I am shopping for the same thing and I think I landed at buying a 36" Wolf cooktop (they have both 30 and 36in cooktops (wolf CG3665T/S) and range tops (SRT366) that work with down drafts)--they sell a vent but I am buying a Faber Scirrroco vent (SCIR3614ss)and a separate blower because I need a 6" vent hook up and not an 8"hook up which many of the hoods require are (to use with our existing venting) I had hoped to get a Bluestar cooktop (which the rep said was possible but I felt the intensity of their heat would be a bit risky with the downdraft although I read others have done it).

I'm going to go with the downdraft that Wolf OEMs by best. I have a unique kitchen and I'm relocating the blower and the fridge condenser to the crawl space (which is actually barn-sized) to reduce noise in my very open kitchen. I think I'm going to go with the Wolf rangetop, but if I had to go cooktop, Thermador is still the best. I don't own any cookware that can be used with high heat so all these BTUs aren't likely to get used, ever. I'm going to admit it's mostly for show (I have instant hot, so the boiling faster doesn't do much for me either). Sigh. It's what people expect in a high end kitchen..... sometimes.