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Chantilly Lace versus Super White for trim/cabinets

mobuddy89
July 11, 2017
last modified: July 11, 2017

A thread was started recently about painting kitchen cabinets and it was suggested by Lori Sawaya to use a BM white called Chantilly Lace. Rather than continuing to possibly high jack that thread, I am posting my questions about using CL or Super White also by Benjamin Moore. I have all the trim in my house to paint along with all new interior doors and closets. I only want to do this once in the remaining time I plan to live here. I want to get it right. I am also painting three bathroom cabinets and eventually would like to do my family room built-ins. I have purchased samples of several other whites as well (white, deco white, simply white -- ruled out as too gray or creamy in my lighting) but still think the Super White or Chantilly Lace would work best. I have bought sample trim, a piece of drywall and test piece of oak (to mimic the cabinets). I have placed these painted pieces of trim and drywall vertically, horizontally and just about everywhere in the house. My home faces north and is blocked in the summer by lots of trees. I think I might be splitting hairs here. They both look so similar and appear to be a very clean white which is what I am wanting. Is there a vast difference between CL and SW that might sway me one way or another that anyone might have experienced? Does one work better in some situations more than others? Or am I just being very, very nitpicky?

Comments (119)

  • Valerie Marcus

    Thanks Lori!


  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    I was thinking maybe of a warm, bright white, as opposed to a grayer white

    PPG's Delicate White - and I know I suggest this color a lot. :) Keep it simple and use the same color, just different gloss levels.

  • Claire Pope

    Following as I am going to have the same problem soon.

  • Valerie Marcus

    Thanks Lori, that is very pretty! I will get a sample can and see how it works in my space, but our painter and cabinet maker have both quoted based on BM paints, is there anything that BM makes that is a close match for the PPG Delicate White?

  • jstanton2014

    Like most here, I'm looking for the perfect crisp, modern white for 2 small bathrooms (one south and one north facing) in an older house. Walls throughout the entire house are Edgecomb Gray, trim is painted in BM Regal Select Semi-Gloss "Ready Mix White" (what is this actual color anyway?). In the bathroom, the floors are white and light gray tile. The walls are old plaster and have their "character" so looking for a knock-out white in the same finish (flat, matte or eggshell) for the walls and ceiling. I'm leaning toward Super White, but wondering if its better for a monochromatic look to use the "Ready Mix White" option. Or any of the others (Decorators, etc). Thanks for your thoughts...

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    is there anything that BM makes that is a close match for the PPG Delicate White?

    No, Sherwin Williams nor Benjamin Moore have a color that's close to Delicate White. However, I've had luck with custom color matches in both brands. It's never a sure thing, a lot depends on the store doing the match. But it's worth getting a sample or a quart in the grade and sheen you want to use and taking a look.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    "Ready Mix White" (what is this actual color anyway?)

    PM-2 White a.k.a. Ready Mix White are the same color.

    They can order the color pre-mixed but most stores don't want to carry the inventory of a bunch of gallons of pre-mixed colors so they just mix it up like any other color.

    I'm thinking Simply White might be a good option with the Edgecomb Gray and PM-2 White trim. Considering the character of the old plaster walls, I feel like I wouldn't want to use a super crisp white.

  • jstanton2014

    Thanks Lori!

  • javiwa

    Following this VERY informative thread, for when it's 'my turn' -- thanks!

  • jstanton2014

    Will Simply White read yellow/creamy?

  • Chessie

    Simply White is not a “crisp” white if that is what you are after.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Will Simply White read yellow/creamy?

    Here's the thing with Simply White, I personally don't feel it's yellowy or creamy and in order for it to look yellowy or creamy would require an avalanche of warm, incandescent light.

    However, I have had more than one client refer to Simply White as "creamy". So, there's that. YMMV so test accordingly.

    I think it would be a good look for the plaster walls and work well the Edgecomb Gray and PM-2 White trim.

  • Valerie Marcus

    Lori, would you describe Delicate White as more of a cool white or a warm white?

  • Elizabeth Bullum

    Hi Lori,

    can you recommend the best BM white to use for kitchen cabinets and trim in living / dining room (it gets different levels of natural light. We are getting Quartz Statuario counters and a light grey glass tile backsplash. Wall colors will be Revere Pewter and Stonington Grey. Would really appreciate your advice!

  • Valerie Marcus

    Any thoughts about BM Oxford White for kitchen?

  • Chessie

    I love that white. It's a cool white. Crisp.

  • Valerie Marcus

    From the paint chip it looks like Oxford White could be good in the room, so time to paint some on the wall, I guess. Concerned a cooler white will look drab, but all the warm bright whites I've been trying seem fluorescent in the space.

  • ljhurtado
    Great info- I never knew white’s could be so challenging tell I read through this tread and found myself in a similar boat. My project is I am adding a new master bathroom, walk-in closet to my small CA rancher. For my new bathroom- it is west facing with windows only in the water closet and walk in and a skylight over the vanity. I went with 8x24 white subway for shower, accents of marble(shower floor/soap niche)grey/black slate floor and new river white granite. I don’t want the cabinets to be harsh- too cool since materials are cool. I was thinking BM white dove or Chantilly lace for cabinets? Any advice on cabinet and door/trim white’s are greatly appreciated!
  • jenniferlaw02
    Lori, could you recommend a Benjamin Moore white for my kitchen walls? The cabinets are Chantilly Lace and the counter tops are calacatta gold quartz.

    I want a fresh clean look.

    I appreciate any help you can provide. I’m overwhelmed with all the choices and I just can’t grasp the color chart.

    Thank you!!!!
  • Ashley
    Hi Lori,

    Thank you for your incredibly helpful analysis of white paints!

    We are loving BM Simply White on our walls given our exposure. Would Super White and/or Chantilly Lace be the right distance away from Simply White on the color wheel so we could use one of them for our trim? Or maybe mixing one of these colors with Simply White? Our home is older, and we like the idea of highlighting our trim details. Any favorites of yours to pair with Simply White would be very appreciated!

    Thank you so much for your help!
    Ashley
  • Chessie

    I think either one of those would give your trim a nice “pop”. I’d not mix with Simply White though...sort of defeating the purpose.

  • Ashley
    Thanks, Chess! I’m glad you think one of those could work! I think you’re right that adding Simply White could make the trim color too close to the wall color.
  • Tina
    Lori....on your colour wheel with all the whites can you chart where PPG Delicate White would be? Thank you
  • Heather Mathis
    Can you explain where an average person can find the data about each color? Like it's chroma, which color family, and it's rating - in order to chart it on the wheel? If I could figure this out I think I could save myself a lot of repainting! Lol.

    What exactly is chroma? Just how much color is likely to come through when painted?
  • Jane Smith

    Stonington gray question. I know that Stonington gray is a cool color and most of the whites discussed are in the warm family. I've looked at videos and read sites to find what white works best with this color and the recommendations are usually bm snowfall, simply white, and white dove. These don't seem to be in the same hue. I have a lot of light in the room being painted (a wall of three sliding doors, a door with sidelights, and 5 additional windows) which is a family, dining, and kitchen combination. We plan to replace the countertop in the future with white granite. We've already started painting the walls and I'd like to do the molding as soon as possible. Any suggestions?

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Oh wow, sorry guys. I didn't see notices of new comments until Jane's today.

    I'm sure everyone from February has already made color choices and completed their projects. So I'll answer what I can. I'll do it separate posts so it's not so overwhelming.



  • Jane Smith

    Thanks so much, Lori.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Lori....on your colour wheel with all the whites can you chart where PPG Delicate White would be? Thank you

    Updated the Colorography to include Delicate White. There are now 16 white paint colors instead of 15. See the original here.

    And the individual Colorography for Delicate White.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Can you explain where an average person can find the data about each color?

    The Colorography Lab over at Camp Chroma. We're posting new colors every day.


  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    What exactly is chroma?

    You are correct to associate Chroma with "how much color".

    Because that's exactly what a Chroma scale tells you.

    Chroma answers questions like how gray does a color look? Is it close to neutral or is it colorful?


    If you're used to thinking about color as clean or dirty and struggle to organize color into clean and dirty categories, understanding Chroma will put an end to that struggle.

    Because you don't have to guess. Instead, you simply compare the Chroma values to determine which color is more gray and dull (dirty) or more colorful and vivid (clean).

    Just how much color is likely to come through when painted?

    Well, the light is boss.

    Gray Owl is a good example.

    Some people have used it and it's turned out looking very minty green - not at all what they expected.

    While others who have used it in their house ended up with a calm, light neutral gray - exactly what they wanted.

    Chroma values can't help you predict how a paint color is going to render in your space.

    What it can do is help you find the right color faster.

    For example, if Gray Owl turned out an unfortunate minty green in your room, you know that colors from Gray Owl's hue family with similar Chroma values will probably turn out just like Gray Owl.


    So, you change what you're doing and look for near neutral grays from a different hue family - maybe move several degrees clockwise into the Green-Yellow or Green hue families.

    Also, look for colors with a little more/less Chroma than Gray Owl.

    The color notations, like Chroma, give you the framework to develop intelligent color strategies.

    You're not just aimlessly shuffling through a stack of paint chips hoping to find what you're looking for.

    Understanding color notations also puts an end to aimlessly tweaking formulas by 25%, 50%, etc. You don't know what you're going to get until you have the color mixed and you can look at it. At that point, you have to buy the paint whether you like it or not.

    When you understand color notations, you can just go find a color that's 25% lighter or 50 less colorful, etc.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Stonington gray question. I know that Stonington gray is a cool color and most of the whites discussed are in the warm family.

    Stonington Gray belongs to the Green-Yellow hue family. Relative to other colors in the same hue family, Stonington is actually categorized as a warm, near neutral, chromatic gray.

    I've looked at videos and read sites to find what white works best with this color and the recommendations are usually bm snowfall, simply white, and white dove. These don't seem to be in the same hue.

    Simply White and White Dove are not good suggestions.

    Because you are right, they don't harmonize with Stonington; the hue family relationship is off.

    Snowfall OC-118 does belong to the same hue family as Stonington Gray.

    So the harmony, the color relationship in terms of hue family is there - they do go together.

    HOWEVER, the problem is Snowfall has more Chroma than Stonington Gray.

    Which is probably why you're not feeling it as a "white" trim color to go with Stonington Gray.

    They'd work great if you had Snowfall throughout the house and Stonington in a den, office or laundry room - the flow would be awesome.

    But as a wall and trim color combo, it's not so great.

    You always want your white trim color to have LESS Chroma than your wall color. Because it will look white in comparison and it won't look dirty, dingy or weird.

    If you're going for a color vs. a white for the trim, then it's a different story.

    So, I agree.

    None of those were good suggestions for a trim color to go with Stonington Gray.

    They're not awful but there are technically better options.

  • Jane Smith

    Lori, thanks so much for such a quick response. I'm looking at the list of whites you provided with the chroma. Thanks for that detailed information. I'm getting some samples and I will let you know what I select.

  • Jane Smith

    Lori, I selected BM Super White PM-1, and I just completed the crown molding on a small wall. It looks very crisp but not overly white or stark. It's very soft against the Stonington Gray, and I really like it. I also got a sample of BM White-PM-2 which I thought would be the better choice, but it seemed whiter and not as soft (if that is a correct term) against the Stonington Gray. Thanks for providing all that information-it was a great help.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Lori, I selected BM Super White PM-1

    Also known as OC-152. It's pretty. Doesn't get talked about too often.

    I also got a sample of BM White-PM-2 which I thought would be the better choice, but it seemed whiter and not as soft

    Exactly correct. The data validates what you see.

    White OC-151 has a tiny tick less chroma than Super White OC-152.

    Which means it's closer to a true neutral white. So it will look cleaner, more white - not as soft - in comparison to Super White.

  • abrodak

    Hello there:) Im hoping for help with a Benjamin Moore white for my Sherman Williams "softer tan" wall color. I was considering simply white but after reading the reviews im afraid to put it on... will it be too warm and not enough contrast? I also considered snowfall, chantilly lace and super white. Help!!

  • drmagda
    I’m redoing my kitchen and I’m picking colors. I was thinking of doing Hale Navy for the kitchen island, surrounding cabinets on Super White, walls on Revere Pewter and crown molding/trim on Chantilly Lace. Kitchen has good natural light especially in the morning (I guess southeast exposure). Will these colors work?
  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    @drmagda, too many colors.


    Pick a lane. Either Super White or Chantilly Lace. Don't use both.


    There's not a huge difference between Super White and Chantilly. I'd suggest choosing whichever one looks prettiest.




  • drmagda

    Is it better to use the same white trim color for the cabinets (all white except Island, which is blue)?

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Yes. Absolutely.


    Whenever you can edit and simplify a color palette, that's what you want to do.


    No reason for a different white on cabinets and trim/doors.


    Depending on product used for each application, the sheen and chemistry might make them appear slightly different any way.


  • drmagda

    Thanks!

  • PRO
    Renov8or

    I totally agree that Benjamin Moore "white" doesn't get enough praise. It's a crisp, bright white. All my moldings are BM White.

  • Lauren Bruno

    Lori Sawaya, please help me!

    My husband and I just bought a 1970s coastal ranch house with big oak trees outside. Although there are plenty of large windows, there is not a lot of direct sunlight (if any) coming in.

    My preferred style is traditional clean lines, New England neutrals. We have warm wood floors (attaching pictures here) with plenty of big painted built ins (attaching before/current realtor photos).

    I love Pale Oak by Benjamin Moore and am looking for a clean, crisp white for the trim and built ins. I believe I should paint the built ins the same white as the trim. I'd like to paint our walls POak with white trim throughout our home, possibly all white bathrooms (TBD).

    Will you please help me pick out a clean white to pair with the pale oak walls and the bright wood floors?? I'd REALLY appreaciate it. I've been looking up whites for weeks and am not spinning in circles. :)

    Lauren







  • Alice

    I think I may be the only person on the internet who thinks Chantilly Lace looks too yellow. That would be the only reason I'm leaning towards Super White ... unless my eyes are just really bad.

  • PRO
    cccinc

    As a designer, I find the best overall white is Benjamin Moore - Cottonball. This white does not grey out or have any yellow. Its a nice soft clear white. I use it often.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    I just now saw this. Sorry, Lauren.

    Sherwin-Williams Extra White 7006.

    And I agree bookcases, trim, doors should be the same color of white.

  • roxrickly
    In my new build my cabinets and trim are matched to the white in my alps quartzite. The color matches closely to Benjamin Moore Baby’s Breath. Now I can’t find a light wall color to coordinate for kitchen/family room. The painter wants to use Sherwin Williams colors. I think the Baby’s Breath is closer to the Super White spectrum. I’ve tried Shoji White but’s too yellow. Maybe grayish white for walls? Thanks for suggestions.
  • Lauren Bruno
    Thank you!! Is this white good with BM classic gray and BM balboa mist too?

    Thanks again,
    Lauren
  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    Yes. It's pretty. It is a crisp, clean white but it's not so clean it feels/looks stark and arctic.


    I think it's one of the most neutral in appearance whites out there.

  • andersons21

    @Alice, I too see some yellow in Chantilly Lace in some situations/lighting.


    @Lori A Sawaya, do you happen to know the spectral data for stock white Cabinet Coat? I have read it described as bluish, or grayish. I'm looking for a white that doesn't look yellow in my laundry room, which has no natural light (or maybe a tiny bit contributing from distant bedroom west window during the day), and is lit with 2 high-CRI Feit LED bulbs. Even with the (relatively?) "high" CRI of the LEDs, colors look vastly different than in rooms with windows -- with yellow greatly intensified. I have found several of the BM colors in this thread, like Super White and White, look pretty much "just white" in my laundry room. I also really like BM White Diamond, which is a little darker (grayer) than Super White.


    I also have to complain a little bit -- even different BM chips of the SAME color do not match. Here I am agonizing over the differences between colors, when paint coloring technology can't even match its own chips, or different samples of the "same" color closely enough for my eye to see them as the "same" color.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya

    even different BM chips of the SAME color do not match.

    They started out accurate. Manufacturing specs for paint chips are among the most strict in all of color world.

    Because paint chips are the target for every sample and can of paint - the goal is to mix to match the chip. Every brand. Every store mixes paint to match a paint chip.

    Problem is, those pristine accurate chips end up in a paint store. And you never know what's gonna happen or how long they'll be on display exposed to light and handled a gajillion times.

    When you order the big designer chips or your designer pulls the big chips from their architectural kit, you don't have to worry about the elements affecting accuracy - they are what the color is suppose to look like.

    Paint chips will always and forever be 1000 times more accurate than sample pot or jugs as long as they're stored/displayed correctly.

    do you happen to know the spectral data for stock white Cabinet Coat?

    I don't. But that would be good info to have. I'll have to snag a measurement the next time I get hold of a new can.

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