I would pick it. The plant looks too damaged. There doesn't look to be enough foliage on the plant to give it any more than it already has, and what might happen is that the damaged plant could start to pull moisture out of the fruit. Harvest it and let it ripen indoors.

Exactly. It will ripen inside. Can speed up the ripening some by putting it in a bag with fresh fruit, like a banana. In fact, don't deceive yourself. The plant is dead, and the tomato is ripening just like it would inside, off the stem. Keeping it outside, and attached to a dead stem is not in your better interest.

Agree. Pick it.

Ever had a green one fall off when picking other tomatoes? Just take the green one indoors and set it upside down on the counter out of the direct sunlight. It will slowly color up. Many do it with all the Fall green tomatoes.

But developing color isn't the same as "ripe". Just as with store-bought fruit that are picked green and then exposed to ethylene gas to give them color, the internal brix and flavor don't really develop, just the color.

Dave

Dave, Dan, and Rgreen -- thanks for the responses and the education. I will bring it inside and temper my expectations for this one's taste.

This happened to me yesterday after a strong storm. One branch with 2 tomatoes broke off completely and another with 3 is hanging by a thread. I will plant the former and see if I can get them to grow and/or genuinely ripen (they're not full size yet). I've read that it can happen, but no guarantee.

The latter, will see how well it's doing in place since it is still partially attached.

Dave, do you have a reference for vine ripening yielding a better tasting tomato? There are lots of reports available that suggest that's not really the case. Might be a myth. It is, however, important to ripen in the shade, rather than in the sun, for best taste. Store bought tomatoes don't taste bad because they ripen them off the vine, but because they are varieties that are bred for transport rather than taste.

"Dave, do you have a reference for vine ripening yielding a better tasting tomato? There are lots of reports available that suggest that's not really the case. "

Didn't mean to imply that at all. In fact i often write about just the opposite here - that full vine ripening is no better flavored than post color break ripening indoor on the counter but on the vine is much more risky.

But the crucial difference in this discussion is an immature, fully green tomato with no color break. That is what makes all the difference - before or after color break and then the various degrees of color break. On the vine CB is the trigger for the fruit to be sealed off from the vine - the membrane closes and carb to sugar conversion begins for brix to develop.

Most store-bought tomatoes are picked prior to color break and ethylene ripened. They change color but only develop a marginal flavor. Same for Fall greenies when picked and you wrap them in newspaper or whatever - no brix trigger.

OK?

Dave

Dave, very interesting. Does that mean that all the tomatoes in this picture (except for the bottom ones that are still green) will eventually develop the same level of Brix regardless if I let them ripen on the plant or inside? On a similar note, once picked does leaving them on the truss/with their stems on have any advantage over taking the stems off?

"will eventually develop the same level of Brix regardless if I let them ripen on the plant or inside?"

"Same level", no. Just as all fruit on a truss do not have the same size, they do not have the same brix level regardless of how ripened. Truss fruit will always test out slightly different simply because of the difference in their circulatory support - primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. stems. The larger the truss the greater the difference.

But once they hit color break, each fruit has its same brix potential whether inside or outside ripened.

Dave

Is this enough of a color break for Rutgers? I hope I didn't jump the gun on picking it.

Dave, thanks for the clarification. Yes, I agree. So the point is that flavor will continue to improve until color break. But not much after that. So vine ripening until color break is what we're after here. Not vine ripening until it's bright red. You can make a fully green tomato get red off the vine, but you can't make that fully green tomato taste good once it is off the vine. The phrase "vine ripened" is often assumed to mean that the tomato is picked when it is bright red. What it really should mean is that it is picked after color break. The first sign of color. Terminology!

I understand the main reason that store tomatoes are picked entirely green is that they are very firm, and stand up to transport much more successfully. Once you get color break, the tomato starts to get soft.

The mythology on this is interesting. Surveys of tasters ALWAYS indicate preference for "vine ripened" tomatoes (meaning, vine ripened until red) if they are told it is "vine ripened". If they aren't told that, it's pretty much a wash. Tomatoes that get red on windowsills do just fine, comparatively. So yes, picking at color break is a much more sensible strategy than waiting until it gets bright red.

Boris - that is easily a Stage 3 of color break so yes it will do fine, could have even been picked earlier. Check out the chart in the link below.

http://awaytogarden.com/theres-more-than-one-way-to-ripen-a-tomato/

Dave

daninthedirt: Dave, do you have a reference for vine ripening yielding a better tasting tomato?

Yes, all things being equal, vine-ripened fruit taste better. This has been known for a long time now.

http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/datastore/234-526.pdf

The differences are probably subtle enough that most people can't really tell the difference under real-life conditions (i.e., not a controlled taste test in a lab where you're directly comparing the results) or find the difference acceptable. And probably things like rain, etc. are enough of a factor to override some of the subtler differences.

I've always had a keen sense of taste and smell and am particularly sensitive to off flavors in food. I can definitely detect a drop-off in flavor with my own tomatoes when they've been picked early. But the detriment is slight, so if I were to eat someone else's tomatoes, I probably wouldn't know. It could just be differences in flavor produced in different gardens/soil/microclimates, etc.

That's not what Dave and I are agreeing on. In fact, there are surveys that show that when the people being surveyed about tomato taste don't know whether the tomato they are eating was actually "vine ripened" or not, they don't tend to prefer either one. If you tell them that one is "vine ripened", they'll glom onto that one.

A more recent reference -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11543432 outlines this. This is an interesting reference, because it evaluates only hydroponic tomatoes, such that soil, microclimates, and particular weather conditions don't play a role.

But my point was that the phrase "vine ripened" is poorly defined. Many people interpret it to mean "picked when bright red and table-ready", when, biochemically, it should mean "picked after color break".

Studies show that there is a measurable difference in acidity and sugars when fruit are picked before full ripeness. Also significant differences in aromatic compounds, both desirable and not.

So it's not just in people's heads.

Not to mention that, in the study I referenced, tasters did not know what they were eating.

daninthedirt: But my point was that the phrase "vine ripened" is poorly defined. Many people interpret it to mean "picked when bright red and table-ready", when, biochemically, it should mean "picked after color break".

I'm not sure there's an objective enough basis for determining what a descriptive term should mean biochemically in this instance. "Ripened" is a term for people with all their varying tastes and preferences. For a plant, the only thing that matters is whether the seeds are mature enough to reproduce, and many of them can do that before any color at all, i.e., at "mature green".

But IIRC, the industry meaning is that it has reached color break.

Yes, the industry meaning is color break. But that's not how it is sold to consumers.

You can take it up with John Kitsteiner.

http://tcpermaculture.com/site/2013/05/14/vine-ripened-tomatoes-yet-another-lie-by-modern-ag/

We can agree to disagree about flavor development after color break. I don't notice any changes myself

That article does point out that there's no flavor difference between mature green and "vine ripened", which here is meant as "breaker". But many studies show that consumers CAN detect a significant difference in taste between a tomato that is MG or B and one that is "dark pink" or "table ripe" when picked.

As for agreeing or not, whatever. I can only speak for my own experiences. My observations have been that how much it matters depends on cultivar and tomato size. A cherry tomato picked at table ripe or very close is noticeably different from one picked at the breaker or light color stage and ripened inside, even with people who aren't observant tasters. Larger tomatoes probably offer more of a buffer. I can often detect a plasticky aroma in tomatoes picked before they're table ripe or almost table ripe and ripened indoors. It's one of those things that perhaps not all people can detect, as humans vary a lot in 1) their ability to sense specific volatile compounds and 2) the degree to which various compounds are offensive to their sense of smell.

The ultimate answer is in the fact that the fruit begins to be sealed off from the plant stem at color break and is fully sealed off by Stage 2. The membrane is water-permeable only. So whatever happens after that point is all internal and makes little difference WHERE it is done.

But if one believes full ripening on the vine is preferable and they find the many risks to that acceptable then it's their choice. But any marginal flavor improvements that might be measurable are infinitesimal and easily far outweighed by the environmental risks to the fruit.

All it would take to completely ruin the flavor of a fruit left on the vine to ripen fully would be a bit of rain, some passing bug or caterpillar, a visit from the local varmint, some wind, a few hours of being over-looked when picking, etc. Can't count the number of times I have missed on deep in the plant only to have it squish to a mess in my hand.

This not to even address the issue of what "fully ripe" means - 50 things to 50 different people.

Pick 'em when you want to if all the risks are really worth it to you.

Dave

So I planted my broken branch in another container after keeping it in water for two days while I was getting the potting mix. Before and immediately after planting, I thought I was going to lose the plant for sure. It produced some roots, but the leaves were completely wilted and the larger of the two fruit had this sort of soft wavy skin. It perked up ever so slightly after the first soaking rain, but wilted again during the next afternoon. But after a second round of heavy rain Monday, the old leaves look almost normal. There is healthy new growth as well, and the tomato's skin is back to being hard and smooth. I wonder if that means it's actually going to get larger and eventually ripen. I don't have high hopes of new fruit from it this late in the season, but if it can finish growing and ripening the two existing fruit, I'll be happy.

digdirt: The ultimate answer is in the fact that the fruit begins to be sealed off from the plant stem at color break and is fully sealed off by Stage 2. The membrane is water-permeable only. So whatever happens after that point is all internal and makes little difference WHERE it is done.

I've heard this explanation before and found no evidence for it in plant biology. Can you provide a reference for this "membrane"?

The fact is that the composition of plant sugars, acids, and aromatic compounds continue to change as the plant is left on the vine until table ripe. And a fruit picked before table ripe and ripened to table ripe off the vine will have a different composition than one picked at table ripe, even when they both become ripe in identical conditions. This is pretty established. How can this happen if this membrane is "water only"?

digdirt: Pick 'em when you want to if all the risks are really worth it to you.

Actually, a "bit of rain" doesn't matter too much to my plants, which are grown in the ground. If heavy rains are forecast, I pick them early. I usually use those in cooking.

And I don't have serious critter problems, so 95% of the fruit I pick table ripe or just one or two days away from it end up delicious and beautiful with no damage. So, for me, the risks are small and almost always worth it. As I said, fruit picked early usually has "off" flavors that I can easily detect--one of the reasons why I hate grocery store tomatoes and almost always ask to hold the tomatoes in my salads or sandwiches when I eat out. It's not just lack of flavor. This goes away when I pick at the "dark and almost ripe" stage or table ripe. I actually don't like raw tomatoes unless I've grown them myself and can control when they're picked.

I'm not going to pooh-pooh anyone's coping strategies for weather and critters. People should do what works for them. But telling people that there's no difference is, IMO, false. The more accurate statement would be that the difference is slight for most people and probably more than worth it if weather and pests are ruining one's tomatoes. Better an excellent tomato that you get to eat than a sublime tomato that you lose.

When you write ''... the membrane closes...'' are you referring to what we used to call an ''abscission zone'' ?

Provide a reference?

Yes, have numerous times as has Carolyn, Mule and several others have both here and on Tomatoville (as you know gb) as it has also been discussed ad infinitem on that forum. Whether those links I have personally posted are still valid links or not I don't know without doing a detailed search but the search will pull them up.

The original research papers were out of Kansas State University AG research station I recall and have been referenced in hundreds of articles over the years. The research is based on the changing chemical nature of the vasculaure structure between the pedicle and the abscission zone of the fruit as they ripen.

The research is almost identical to all the studies on tomato blossom drop and the chemical changes in the abscission zone of the blossom that result in blossom drop. Also identical to all the research done on peaches, apples, and numerous other fruit that release from their pedicle yet continue to ripen.

Given all that research is commonly accepted then I don't understand why it is so hard to accept the same studies done on tomato fruit. But some are determined to not accept it. That is their choice but it doesn't make the research any less valid.

Many scientific studies:

Tomato fruit abscission studies

Dave

digdirt2: Yes, have numerous times as has Carolyn, Mule and several others have both here and on Tomatoville (as you know gb) as it has also been discussed ad infinitem on that forum.

And yet, nobody has actually provided a reference. And people keep calling it a "membrane" that "seals", even though an abscission zone is not a membrane and does not seal in tomato fruit.

<The original research papers were out of Kansas State University AG research station I recall and have been referenced in hundreds of articles over the years. >

And yet, nobody here or at tville has ever managed to point to an actual reference in any of these hundreds of articles. I find this odd.

<The research is based on the changing chemical nature of the vasculature structure between the pedicle and the abscission zone of the fruit as they ripen.>

I'm going to guess that you haven't actually read the article. I actually had a friend with access look up this article for me a year or two ago, and I read it. And the article is about how, in maturing tomato fruit, the xylem (water transport vasculature) decreases and all transport of wet and dry matter into a maturing tomato fruit is taken over by the phloem (dry matter transport vasculature). It says nothing about a stop to transport of dry matter into a tomato. It certainly says nothing to support the claim that ONLY water enters a tomato from color break until it's picked and its implications actually debunk that idea.

<Many scientific studies:

Tomato fruit abscission studies>

Did you read your search results? They have nothing to do with the question at hand and most of them are about the no-joint gene variation in which an abscission zone never forms at all (lime green salad is a variety like this, for example).

<Given all that research is commonly accepted then I don't understand why it is so hard to accept the same studies done on tomato fruit. But some are determined to not accept it. That is their choice but it doesn't make the research any less valid.>

Commonly accepted by whom? The people I see claiming the "sealed membrane" are all either from tville or quoting people from tville. Can you point to an independent, scientific source that says this? Because I've looked a lot, and I can't find one.

The accusation that people are only believing what they want to believe can be leveled in both directions. And when you look at the actual science, it doesn't back up the "sealed membrane" camp. The fact is, tomatoes continue to get both water and dry matter and volatile compounds from the plant up until at least the point of becoming table ripe. This is not up for debate--it has been shown. Whether most human beings can detect these changes in a fruit ripened to table ripe on the vine vs. in a fruit that was picked early and ripened off the vine is, as I've always said, an individual matter, and whether the average human cares enough about subtle differences is yet another individual matter.

But the "sealed membrane" claim so far looks to be folklore, not science.