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tanya_busby

Drainage, hills and flooding help needed

8 years ago

Please help: we live in Winnipeg, Canada:


I wondered if you wouldn't mind giving us a second opinion as we are really in need of someone that is not only a landscape contractor but rather someone that has more technical landscaping experience/education).

If there is anyway you can look over these documents (i can send them directly to you) and let us know what you would suggest doing we would be so very thankful.


Some background on our property:

- moved in Jan 2015 noticed flooding March 2015

- connected with builder and city no further support

- now in 2017 we continue to flood but now have a neighbor where we are really aware of the drainage issues on our property. When our other neighbor builds there house we will no longer have direct access to get water off our property as our property is supposed to drain through our neighbors yard so right now we can still adjust the grades for the vacant lot beside us (developer has approved this if needed).

- May 2017 City came and provided us new survey which shows what our survey certificate was suppose to be as well as what our survey/land actually is. (I've attached this so you can see what we are dealing with; approximately 1 foot lower than we should be and one of our hills slopes is 7 to 1 ratio vs. 3 to 1 ratio it should be.)

- since then working with original civil engineer for developer. He provided a proposed plan (attached) to drain our property w/o retaining walls on our property but rather swales and proposed adjustment of the vacant lot beside us (22 canvasback cove). No one has since quoted on this plan and the city really wants us to go with option 2 which is catch basin on our property and under our neighbors yard and PR walkway behind our house. Note: all expenses to fix drainage on our property is going to be our expense.

- last attached item is quote from landscaper we have been working with on project (3 quotes provided but the amount keeps rising and we want to make sure our goals of below are still met:)


1. property draining properly is met

  1. still have a functional yard (and prevent flooding in our home - I have concerns with 'retaining wall city plan' that does retaining wall around our full patio and basement three windows in the back yard - these three window areas are not in cement but rather wood, and b/c our basement door is so low with the patio not having any drainage that water may come into our basement door).

3. best bang for our buck; don't want to spend on things we don't need as we've already landscaped our whole yard once 2 yrs. ago.


Now we have a quote of $27,000 to finish our back yard (which would be lovely) but we don't want to spend more than we need to but want a fixed yard that is low maintenance but usable too as we have a 5 yr old daughter that we would like to still have her playstructure/trampoline or small swimming pool as part of the plan.

Thank you very much in advance if this makes sense and you can provide us some solutions to our goals:

  1. is this plan set forward the best to make sure we drain properly?
  2. will we still have a yard that functions well for us now and for the future when our daughter no longer uses the playset/trampoline or pool?
  3. that we are only paying for what we need to
  4. that we are not causing other issues in our yard with a retaining wall around our whole patio w/o a drain and so that we don't have to spend much more money on landscaping again in a few more years after our daughter's interests change.
  5. the quote we have is on par with others quoting on the work (we didn't get three quotes as we've only been working with this one landscaper since this all began in April.) * we've had to move the date back of doing the work 2 times already b/c the City/Developer have been talking about other suggestions.

Tanya - if there is a chance we can hear from you early this week we would like to let our Landscaper know what we are going to do. He does not want to do the plan proposed by the Developer and City and understands if we go elsewhere now to do the work. We still would like to do some work with him but as he is a landscape contractor not a landscape designer/environmental design grad/landscape architecture we thought we should get another perspective.
PS We have spent so much time, energy on this already that we are so looking forward to being done with this problem and hope to before the snow falls and we have issues in the spring; last yr my husband spent consecutive days pumping water off our property to the PR behind our neighbors but if they build beside our house, this won't be an option.


Latest quote info:

Price Estimate - my comments are bolded

Supply and install 25 x 3 foot compacted ¼ inch black granite walkway (may not need as can use grass doing down south hill near hot tub to cut costs)

Supply and install 50 lineal feet of low level

Quarry stone retaining walls (not sure need/want around 3 window area in basement but may need b/c that area is wood not concrete and need to raise yard 5-6 inches probably in that spot).

Masonry glue for all stone work 20 yards of ¾ inch down limestone

Supply and install 14 foot diameter Roman paving stone circular patio (fine with 12 ft and could do pea gravel for base to save costs-this is so we have some function in our north/west hill)

Supply and install Quarry stone backing retaining wall to patio

Barkman edging and galvanized spikes

Polymeric sanding of patio upon completion

Supply and grade 40 yards of clean fill

Supply and grade 30 yards of four way mixed soil

Supply and lay 220 yards of peat sod

Supply and install riverstone perimeter of back yard and upper tier (don't need upper tier to cut costs)

Supply and plant 3 x caliper deciduous trees (don't need to cut costs)

Supply and install 5 large riverstone boulders (don't need to cut costs)

Supply and install commercial grade black lawn edging

Supply and lay 25 year landscape fabric

Supply and install retention pit in back corner of yard Labor (don't know if we need this)

Sub Total: $26, 360.00 GST: $1318.00 TOTAL: $27, 678.00

Comments (13)

  • 8 years ago

    Whew! Retain an attorney who specializes in real estate issues. You can find one through the Bar Association (or whatever it's called in Canada). Really, you need an attorney, you should not be bearing the cost of a mistake by the developer.

  • 8 years ago

    Not an internet table issue. You need local experts. In person.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I have to agree that this is an issue which cannot possibly be addressed properly via an online forum. You need a soils hydrologist to evaluate the situation - in person - and make recommendations on how to rectify.

    Whether or not you need to get an attorney involved would depend on his/her reports and determination of the cause.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    I concur. Such a complex issue needs someone physically inspecting the conditions, not just reading about them. You need local representation first that understands the physical problems and solutions, and then who understands the relevant legal issues.

  • 8 years ago

    Contact a local watershed organization. They should be able to put you in contact with an actual hydrologist. You need one And even they often can't sort out something this complex. But a basic rule to keep in mind, water flows downhill and stops and pools when the ground levels out, no exceptions, and any engineering solution that goes against that is going to be cost, labor and maintenance intensive, so unless there is a long term plan for all of that, be skeptical or you will be back in the same place you are now a few years down the pike. Engineers come in and engineer, the bill is large. Plus there are laws and just natural laws to consider then you drain water off your property. Just solve those and then you can piecemeal the other stuff as needed. I have found that even landscape architects often are quite sketchy in their knowledge of hydrology. And many landscape firms have neither trained designers or architects or hydrologists on staff, and yet they do things that all require that skill set. Caveat emptor!

  • 8 years ago

    It's urgent for you to consult with a construction attorney. The damages and harm may be more than you know. Poorly engineered drainage is a red flag raising questions about other acts of the builder. It's best to fully understand everything you're facing.

  • 8 years ago

    "I have found that even landscape architects often are quite sketchy in their knowledge of hydrology."

    Hydrology is a very specialized field.....soil hydrology even more so. I know of NO landscape architecture curriculum that addresses this subject in any sort of detail.

    You need a professional hydrologist - not a landscape architect, not a landscaper, not a designer.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Grading and drainage is probably taught in every landscape architecture curriculum. I think they did a good job of teaching it where I went to school. But whether one uses and increases the skill, or merely forgets it, would depend on their particular career choices and aspirations. I also learned how to design highways, but I would be damned if I actually had to face doing it, since I never did it in my working life and have forgotten nearly everything about it except for the extreme basics (which have actually been useful.)

  • 8 years ago

    Grading and drainage are far different from hydrology and do not require a degree to establish a career :-) I too had classes in both of these skills and deal with these issues frequently in my business but would not feel anywhere near competent to evaluate the problems apparently existant in this situation. This seems to go far beyond what grading and drainage would address.

  • 8 years ago

    There is nothing we can do for you until the hydrologist has evaluated the site and made recommendations. Even then, this is not an issue that is successfully addressed by remote advice.

    Tanya Busby thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    GG, I'm not sure why you think grading and drainage are insufficient to conquer the problem, and what else a hydrologist would add that would make the difference.

    Tanya Busby thanked Yardvaark
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I would be very hesitant to think that RAISING the grade around my house would solve a drainage problem. Water flows underground too. But I would have no way of knowing unless I had a map that showed the overall grade of both your property and adjacent properties and what kind of soil you had, the dimensions of the lots, location of paved surfaces, etc. Your property does not exist in a vacuum as you have discovered, and anyone who designs anything on your property that does not consider how it relates to the whole area is not showing you signs that they are competent enough to handle your problem. Could they be, yes, but no guarantees. Best bet to find someone with a very long track record of handling drainage problems EFFECTIVELY. Everyone will tell you they can and have done it, you need to diligently check their portfolio and speak with references. I deal with water managers all the time and the good ones are few and far between. What you get is common solutions to common problems which do not always work when applied to every situation.

    Tanya Busby thanked l pinkmountain