Yup, good soil is a key ingredient to success. It is permeable to air and water, and it passes the water to all nooks and crannies by capillary action. Not like the peat-concrete mix they sell AVs to start with.

Rosie and Irina, I just thought that if I bought from Violet Barn, that they'd have great soil. I read a lot of the comments on a bunch of the violets, that people had their violet in the soil it came with for a long time.

I tried bottom watering my mini violets. I poured a tiny bit through the top until it came out of the bottom and set the violets in a dish of water. I immediately saw the water level go down as I set them in. After 2 hours, the top of the soil wasn't moist so I just watered the dry area at the top.

Even after watering from the top and bottom, it was still hard for the water to soak in from the top. In the first violet, the water goes down pretty fast after the surface tension goes away. The second violet, it will literally just sit there on the surface unless I poke a hole into the soil. I think you're right and I do vhave to replant these with looser soil. I just don't want to freak them out.

For the big violet, I bought violet soil and I took the violet out and this is what the stem looks like.

I immediately assumed it was root rot and pruned a bunch of the leaves off to prepare it for decapitation.

My friend said that if I pull lightly on the roots directly coming out of the stem and they don't come apart, it's not root rot.

I realized that I could scrape off the dark part and it was all healthy and green below -- but I'm still not sure if this is early root rot (scroll down)

**** I have fungus gnats and I'm so frustrated ****

I just propagated like 4 leaves and I know I have to keep the soil in those moist at all times, but how can I if I have fungus gnats?

I'm going to get Mosquito Dunks and put them in the water I water with and then get bright yellow sticky tape.

Mosquito dunks are good non-toxic alternative. Water with them.

The crown needs to be rerooted. Otherwise the plant will be looking like &%& no matter what. Build your courage - and cut just under the last leafstalk. remove this last leaf and pin the stub to a soil. Get it covered with plastic - and in 10 days it will be rooted and growing.

I scraped off the dark part and it was all green inside -- are you sure I need to cut it off? It's not squishy or anything, the roots aren't falling off, they seem pretty sturdy.

I potted it with the whole really long stem.

I read that with a crooked neck, you have to repot it with the stem straight and the leaves would straighten over time

So, I repotted it with the entire stem intact below the soil since it was green and healthy looking under the brown stuff I scraped off. Because the stem is kind of long, the roots are probably already halfway down the pot, and I don't know if this is an issue.

If you still think I should decapitate because it was root rot or because it's just too long for the rootball to form effectively, I’ll start over with a clean pot and fresh mix. I have a slightly bigger pot too.

THANK YOU!!

Elsie, IMO this doesn't look right. You may have to do it over again. Here's a video and article on long necks and root rot from the AVSA.org site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE0_d_E6NMk&feature=youtu.be

http://avsa.org/sites/default/files/files/How%20to%20Repot%20to%20Bury%20a%20Neck%20or%20Rescue%20a%20Violet%20from%20Root%20Rot.pdf

The idea is to rejuvenate the plant, not to drag old palm trunk into the new life. AVs with old thick trunks are usually slow growers and very poor bloomers.

Do not be a chicken! Go for it!

Your soil needs more perlite added and a preferred pot is plastic, not clay.

Irina the Senior Chicken

Hahaha I shall definitely do it and use a plastic pot. How do you figure out the proportion of perlite to add?

The area in my room under the bright light is where the fungus gnats began. I propagated a bunch of the leaves I took off the big violet, and I know you can either keep them in a clamshell box (which I don't have, I'm sure gnats could still get in) or have them out and keep an eye on them to make sure they're never dry. If I have this damp soil out, that's prime for gnats. If I get mosquito dunks for my watering water and sticky paper, will everything be okay?

Umm, two thoughts. One, it shouldn't be kept "damp", just keep it from drying absolutely out. That will abolish the fungus gnats for the most part (if not totally). African violets are semi-succulent, they don't really like wet/damp soil.

I don't think you can use too much perlite, it'll just cause things to be more open and drained. I'd suggest 33% against a peat based media.

I second DBarron on perlite. Go for 33.33%. ;-))

Sticky paper I suspect is more for monitoring. They hatch, they mate, they deposit new eggs - and only afterwards go and decorate the sticky paper.

I am sure there is plenty insecticides in Home Depot if you want to eradicate the gnats - any drench with imidacloprid will work. Just work with the gloves. If you want to use no-pesticide approach - some people use drench with soap - may be Safer Soap or mosquito dunks - they are based on Bacteria thuringensis - there is no poison. You need to repeat the treatment several times week apart to make sure all new hatched larvae is gone.

After you do them in - be careful with the soil. Most of the time you get them with the store bought soil - if soil is slightly humid - you open the bag - and the cloud of them emerges, if the soil is dry - it still can contain eggs. Try to wet your soil with boiling water before using for planting.

When you put leaves for starting - use healthy middle level leaves - 2 of them - not 20. Mass reproduction of one and the same variety is boring...What are you going to do with them????

Good Luck

Irina

It's just that I already bought a violet potting soil that I assume has some of everything in it, and I wouldn't know how to add perlite to the bag or to a pot and how much.

I had seen a few little annoying flies recently, not that many. But yesterday, one of the little pots that I put my grandma's original dying violet into tipped over and right after is when I noticed a ton, so I'm guessing that was the culprit. I was in the kitchen with my new AV soil for a while and there weren't any flies.

I'm going to put a mosquito dunk into the water jar I'll use to water the plants with, but it's not coming till Monday. I'm going out of town for a few days, do you think it's okay if I put my plants on the table until I get the mosquito dunks?

I only propagated 4 of the good green middle leaves :) I was just assuming I'd probably do something wrong and maybe at least one would survive haha

With good culture each leaf can give you 6-12 babies...You do the math.

The store bought AV mix has a lot of peat moss - reason - it is the cheapest ingredient. There is a basic Cornell soilless mix - peat moss - perlite - vermiculite 1:1:1. Depending on your house conditions - hot - cool, humid - dry, wicking, bottom watering etc the mix is tweaked to suit your growing conditions.

The store bought mix is probably 95% peat and some perlite, no vermiculite, wetting agent and slow release fertilizer. It has pH adjusted to neutral - which is good - and for all purposes it can be treated as an improved peat.

Fungus gnats are mostly nuisance. The damage varies from some to nothing - depends on the amount of them. Emerging roots of the leaves put to babies can be affected. Since larva feeds in a top inch of soil... on all kind of organic material... you can dunk them, you can put a drench on the top etc.

They will not kill your plants - you will work on them when you come back.

Hahaha you're right that is a lot of violets! We'll see what happens

So my mix is 35-40% peat moss, aged fir (softwood) bark, perlite, aged redwood sawdust, and sand -- what do you think? Should I pour it into a storage tote and just add vermiculite? There's no fertilizer in it which is good because I'm going to be using the optimara one.

I'm going to use the mosquito dunks.

wood - bark - sawdust...is not desirable. It continues to deteriorate absorbing nitrogen and lowering the pH of the soil. My understanding that a pine bark is a good ingredient for orchid mix - because it provides a lot of air - but most of orchids is not kept consistently moist - their culture requires - watering - drying cycles to mimic natural rain - drying environment To counteract the nitrogen absorption - the orchid fertilizer for bark will be 30:10:10.

IMHO - adding wood in any shape is counterproductive. Means you probably can keep them alive - but they won't perform that well. The AV soil should be constantly barely moist - and all this wet wood continues to compost itself ... and provides food for fungus gnats.

Question - why use all this sawdust to start with? May be I am missing something - but I read a lot AV culture books - and I didn't see one single recommendation on using this kind of ingredients.

I.

Ughhh I wish I could find a nursery where someone knows something about violets. There's a local one in LA that I'll stop by tomorrow and see if I can find something better.

What specifically do you recommend I look for on the ingredients list?

Elsie, you DO realize, you just implied we know nothing about violets (even if we're not a nursery). We are trying to help you, and you keep trying to not take advise. I'm done, just for the record.

Woah, I'm talking about the nurseries I called and went to in my local area a few days ago... The people that work there have general knowledge about stuff and know that this or that soil is the most popular, and even though they said "this has everything you need in it" -- there was no vermiculite. Hence why I said "I wish I could find a nursery where someone knows something about violets"

I was told to buy new plants from Violet Barn, I did. I was told to buy Optimara fertilizer and use 1/8 tsp per gallon, I bought that and a gallon jug. I was told to let my water sit to let the chemicals evaporate and come to room temperature, I did. I was told I could wait to let the suckers grow out before scraping them off, I did. I was told to remove the stumps that came with the mini violets, I did. I was told to supplement my light with a special lightbulb, I did. I was told to replant my violet and then decapitate it, I did. I was told to save some leaves to propagate, I did. I was told various ways of controlling fungus gnats, I got mosquito dunks.

I was told to buy new soil, I did -- but I trusted the guy working there instead of checking the ingredients myself because I assumed all violet soil would have perlite and vermiculite. That doesn't mean I'm not taking your advice, which is why I just asked what specific proportions I should look for when I go buy new soil so I could then take that advice at the next nursery I go to rather than depend on people without experience in violets, ** as opposed to people here who have endless amounts of knowledge on the topic.

Note that as a college kid, I worked in a nursery. Simply working in a nursery doesn't mean anything at all, there is no specialized training that they receive. I, on the other hand, have a BS in Horticulture and have been a life long gardener, something that several here on the thread can probably claim.

Don't look for expertise in retail. They are there to sell you things, nothing more (as a general rule).

Edited because of new comment above: I don't think there is a single mass-produced soil in commerce that is ideally suited to violets (or probably cactus either). Despite what the soil says on the bag (merchandising). It's sad, because people believe it and wonder why their plant dies.

Violets aren't hard, but there are things you learn (either from others) or from experimentation as they decline and die.

All they want is a good loose soil, maybe some occassional fertlization (or constant weak which is probably preferred), a fair amount of bright light (but maybe only late evening or early morning direct sunlight), soil slightly on the drier side (versus wet soil), temperatures that you would find comfortable if undressed. That's about it, other than some techniques (of which one could probably write a book).

Final rule, every violet is somewhat an individual and makes it's own rules.

That's why I'm saying it was my error to assume that the soil he suggested as the most popular, and that all violet soil, would have vermiculite and perlite. I realize that everyone's experience here surpasses anything anyone at a nursery could tell me, unless they themselves also grow violets and have experience. I wish I could find someone at a nursery that is a seasoned violet grower so that I don't buy a soil that has things I have no idea about like bark and dust. Even then, I know that I would find twice the information here.

I am extremely grateful for everyone taking the time to answer my questions and I'm blown away by the fact that there exists a community of people who love a type of plant that are willing to take time out of their day to help other people in that community. I didn't even know clubs existed until I decided to post here. I think it's the coolest thing in the world, and I'm eternally grateful for everyone's help in my endeavor to continue my grandma's legacy.

I apologize for my outburst, but it seemed you kept receiving advise and wanted it from someone else (aka a nursery person). As a general rule, most people that grow plants are passionate about them (it's a lot of work) and I'm alway impressed when I order plants and get them before they even bother to bill me (sometimes they don't even have billing information). That level of trust is rare these days. However, when I called one of them asking if they had failed to bill me, I was told, "We never have any problems with it, I just hadn't been able to get around to calling you yet, but I knew you wanted to get the plants in the ground, so sent them on."

I'm really grateful for any and all advice and criticism and I understand that my comment was not worded properly. I should've said that I wish there was someone at a nursery with experience in violets so that, even if I checked that there was vermiculite and perlite, I wasn't buying a soil that had things like dust and bark that are detrimental to the soil.

That being said, when I go to find a new soil tomorrow, I know that I have to find something with that has an equal (?) proportion of perlite, vermiculite, and peat moss --- what ingredients should I avoid? Or am I looking for a soil that has solely those 3 ingredients?

** or should I buy peat moss, perlite, and vermiculite separately and mix them together

I agree with dbarron.

Employees at most nurseries aren't typically well-versed in the needs of any particular plants ... they generally just say what they think is right to get you to buy.

In addition to the AV devotees here at Gardenweb, there are online resources to gain needed AV knowledge, in particular any of the major AV vendors (ie. Optimara, Lyndon Lyon, Violet Barn, Bloomlovers, Fancy Bloomers, etc.) .

As for myself, I just use MiracleGro pre-fertilized AV mix, cut one to one with Pearlite. This works well as long as you hold off on adding fertilizer for a couple months.

You should be able to find the MiracleGro (or comparable) pre-fertilized AV mix and Pearlite sold separately at even your big box Hardware stores (i.e. Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.).

I think Irina suggested vermiculite to be essentially worthless (or worse) in AVs. I typically use whatever peat based formula I have (they do vary, but not that much) and add lots of perlite. I hope I didn't say vermiculite, I seldom use it for anything, but I confuse them sometimes in writing :(

As a general rule I don't like the idea of fertilizer prepackaged within soil. So MircleGro is not my personal favorite for that reason.

Oh whoops I don't know how I missed that. So I'd look for a regular peat based well-draining soil, buy perlite, and add maybe 1:3 perlite to soil? Or do soils come labeled "33% perlite" and you still add more? In addition to wood, bark, and sawdust is there anything else to avoid or do most peat-based soils not have much else in them?

I've never seen % Pearlite on package labeling.

Typically, there is some Pearlite (you can see it), but not really enough.

Sometimes you'd only be able to find the perlite with a magnifying glass ;)

I didn't say that vermiculite is worthless. I think it is good if you have low humidity and if you bottom water your AVs. Provides the water retention.

Elsie - you are learning and sometimes the information you get - is not on the button. Write it off as a learning experience and move on.

There are some horticulturists who work in nurseries - but most of the people there are making minimum wage and do not have any kind of training. They will try to help you and recommend the products the store has on the shelves....but you need to do your homework.

You need medical help - talk to the doctor, not to the receptionist - even this is a very nice and helpful lady, and the doctor can have atrocious bed manners.

But - you will overcome.

It is not a rocket science - with a little time and desire to learn - you will become an expert and will give advice to the next generations.

And we will be growing AVs in a Violet Heaven. No Bugs There.

The makeup of potting medium is almost as varied as recipes for soup. Every person has some little thing that they add or remove to improve the quality of their potting mixture.

For a long time, many very successful growers used a trifecta of perlite, vermiculite and peat. Many still do but most have adopted mixtures with more perlite, less vermiculite and peat.

I also use horticultural charcoal in my mix. It works like perlite in keeping the makeup of the mix light and airy.

I wick water everything. If I pick up a plant and feels too heavy, I take steps. A smaller wick may be the answer, or repotting w less vermiculite may be necessary.

I make my own potting mix. I do not recommend using any of the premix potting soils that are available in the BBs. Sometimes folks don't have a choice and they feel they have to. I understand that. However, unless you live someplace where the mail isn't delivered, you can order perlite off the internet fairly inexpensively.

Nearly every product marketed by MG has fertilizer in it. Even a MG bag of peat, upon closer inspection, contained significant amounts of fertilizer in it.

I am only speaking for myself when I say, trying to provide the exact correct amount of food for my plants was practically impossible when every component had some unknown concentration of plant food in it.

I am sure that there are a bunch of folks out there than can and do use MG products with great success. They are obviously better plant growers than I am.

Mornin' everyone!!! I can at least tell you why MG works for me. It is very easy.

#1 I am lax on fertilizing! It is that simple. The fact that they add it is just a bonus for a forgetful person like me!

#2 MG is available at Lowe's, Walmart and Meijer and all three are just 7 miles away from me.

I don't use it straight from the bag, I alter it, as many folks who wick water do, with a very generous 1/2 perlite to 1/2 MG. That''s all. But it works for me.

Should someone else do it? Only if they experiment for at least 2 months on a test plant to find out if that is what works for them.

In your experiment, other factors to be considered before you jump in with 2 feet are the heat, dryness, humidity, air circulation etc., in your house. If one violet survives 2 months as an experiment, then I think it would be safe to proceed with doing the rest of your plants like that.

About soil mix. Back in the day there were not so many choices for soil. I remember buying a 40lb. bag of garden soil, taking it home and amending the heck out of it. sheese! We've come a long way baby!!!!! Thankfully.

Before I got into wick watering I would add vermiculite to the soil mix. I did that because it has water holding capability. Perlite does not. Perlite holds space. I eliminated it when I started wicking. Again,,,,this works for me.

Everyone is different and it takes experiment and sometimes loss to finally figure out how you want to do things and what works best for you and your home conditions!!!!

There will always be another person's mix around the corner and some people will swear their mix is the only one to use. BALDERDASH!!!! You must sift through the information, consider your conditions and try one thing at a time and remember to give it long enough to see if it will work. A week is NOT long enough. don't be impatient.

Above all,,,,relax. Enjoy the hobby. Well, that's all I got for a Saturday mornin'!! Rosie

Hear, hear - you tweak what's available until it gets to be right for your type of growing conditions.

You experiment - but there are things that I would not use - sawdust is one of them. It will require a composting while mixed with other ingredients - before it gets palatable - and after that it will make a wonderful amendment for the garden.

Second thing - coir. There are growers who swear by it - minority - and the people who lost their collection - majority, It works nicely in the beginning - and then - if it is a bad coir - the plants start dying. But you do not know if what you got is good or bad until several months later.

Not everybody has the energy, desire, ability to do it. Getting a ready made AV soil and perlite - and mixing them - somewhere between 2:1 to 1:1 already puts you way ahead.

Throwing tantrums about why we cannot buy a perfect bag of soil in a BB store, why the good fertilizer is expensive and hard to get.. is not productive.

Most people buy the cheapest product on the shelf. Especially if the bag or bottle is in purple and says African Violet. The cheapest ingredient in this soil is a Canadian Peat Moss. Here we go - lets put 98%. The cheapest source of Nitrogen - is urea, Really pennies per truck. Who cares if it should be only used outside in a live soil loaded with bacteria, not in a soilless sterile mix we use. It is cheap. The next thing - dosage - tell the buyers they need to use a teaspoon. They will come back for more sooner. Plants die? Who cares - people come for more plants. Best plant buyers are plant killers.

Why we have overweight pets - the dosage is wrong. It says - give your 25 pound dog 2 cups of a dry food a day. You will use the bag faster. Who cares that your dog will look like a hot air balloon with paws in 6 months...

But - God gave us brains... let's use them...

Must have been an Irina button somewhere in that mess!

There is no mess in what Irina says. Common sense has to prevail sometimes. Rosie

I talk too much... you guys need to use my on/off button.

No, Im leaving mine on. I don't take offense at anything I read here. Sometimes I may poke a bit of fun but its what makes this forum kind of nice. Not to sticky, not to official, just right.

Awww Jeff my bro, I love you...almost the only other male posting actively (lol). How's that for sticky ? :)

There is no Irina "off" button. How dull this forum would be if there were! We are all necessary here!! Keep chattin' all!!!!! Rosie

We steered so much off-topic, hopefully Elsie who started this thread is not too mad at us.

If a thread goes on as long as this one has, one must expect it.

I agree, dbarron and Irina,,,,and we have given her so much information to think about. She almost has to be overwhelmed! I hope not too much,,,but it is a lot of thinking! Rosie

Hi, Irina, it is awesome to see you talking much! Elsie, I also live in CA but north. See if you can get to a violet club. They will advise on potting mix. And a million other things. Many clubs make their own mix and sell it.

I buy my potting mix directly from Lyon's and buy plain perlite from Ace or any nursery. I lighten the mix with perlite. I hope you tossed Grandma's plant by now. Fungus gnats are annoying. To get rid of them once and for all, I threw out everything that looked on the verge. I repotted every plant, replacing with fresh mix, cleaning all pots. Then washed or brushed them. And groom often. As for Violet Barn, they are more for experienced growers. It can be difficult to achieve sucess with their plants and heavy, cakey potting mix.

There are some local growers in California that have beautiful, strong plants. I will try to get their names. But do try to get to a club and go to the spring plant sales. You will learn a lot. Do not be concerned about distance. People carpool or rent buses to go together. California grown plants will do better for you than plants bought anywhere else. Except for Lyon's, they do well. Joanne

Joanne! How timely! Now we are back on track! lol Rosie

Hi! Rosie!

Elsie, Today I got the names of growers in Calif., but not the street addresses or websites. To be continued ...

Joanne

Hey yall! It's my last finals week as an undergrad so I've been focusing on that! This thread is awesome and yeah I totally get that everyone's experiences are different. I'll definitely be going to a violet club once they're back from the holidays.

Cheers!

Congratulations! Rosie

Hello everyone! Remember me? I wanted to give you an update on my grandma's violets. I had found a violet from my grandma's time at my parents house and posted photos of it super overgrown above. I ended up decapitating it, replanting it, sticking a plastic bag over it for a month, and have been watering it with a tiny bit of fertilized water.

This is what she used to look like, which I had posted far above ^:

Here she is now:

And this is another one of my grandma's violets I found in my mom's bathroom and it had been super overgrown so I had to clean it up and replant it and she too lives! Here's a photo:

My sister's friend started a plant business called Pretty in Green Plants and she makes her own soils and I'm going to ask her to make me an AV soil based on all your recommendations. Thank you so much for the help!!! <3

Your grandma is so proid, I am

sure of it! Great job.

Elsie!!!! WOW!!!! You really did your homework and it paid off!!!!! Wonderful job! Congratulations and hmmmm,,,,,,,let's see,,,,,,,is there a violet shelf in your future???? I will wait to see pix of it! lol Rosie