I grew Prudens Purple last year and found it productive and tasty :)

Linda

Many previous discussions about it as it is a popular variety.

http://www.gardenweb.com/gardenweb/query/Prudens-Purple/topic=tomato

Dave

It tastes very good. It's prolific in some gardens but not as much in others. It's my favorite hamburger tomato, so far. It's dark pink (although it may seem purple or red). It's PL.

I've grown it for three years in a row (from new seeds I saved every year). It's heat-tolerant. My garden seems to be one where it's less prolific (although it's still early for its size, and it can get big fruit). I suspect it may be more prolific in humid climates and/or looser soil. However, I'm trying some experiments to see if I can get it to produce better (and to see if I can help to get it to produce better with two plants per spot). It produced a lot more fruit this year than the two previous years, and the results with two plants per spot are promising, so far.

However, my plants this year and last could have been hybrids, though, possibly with a Brandywine derivative (so, take the first experiment with a grain of salt). I didn't bag my blossoms. I had one PP plant in 2017 that was definitely a hybrid, since it grew orangish red fruit instead of dark pink fruit (and it tasted like something I grew in 2015 that matched that description). The dark pink ones (in 2016 and 2017) tasted essentially like PP, however (possibly somewhat different). All my PP plants were PL every year, but the plant I grew in 2015 was also PL. I'm not sure if dark pink skin is supposed to be dominant to orangish red skin, but it would have to be, unless an unlikely cross happened in 2016 (PP wasn't near any PL plants then, but there were some further away; same for orangish red fruited plants, perhaps). PL is recessive; so, a cross with an RL would be RL in the F1 generation.

The variety that may have been a Brandywine derivative didn't taste that great grown in our soil (but the parent heirloom plant produced fruit that tasted very good in a friend's garden; my friend grew two heirlooms in 2014, and no other tomatoes, and one of the ones she grew was supposed to be Brandywine, while the other was supposed to be striped; at the end of the season, she gave me some large, non-striped, still-green fruits, which tasted very good after ripening the rest of the way indoors, and that's where I got my seeds that I grew along with Pruden's Purple in 2015; I didn't see any striped fruits in her garden at the end of the season).

It should be noted that not all tomatoes taste worse in my garden. I've grown a lot of varieties. My favorites for taste are Tatura, Green Giant (if grown with enough sun), Pruden's Purple, and Early Girl F1 (if grown with enough sun and little water), and some Husky Cherry Red F2+ plants I'm breeding (they taste different every year, though). I like Marmande and Ovita a lot, too (but I prefer Tatura). My Tatura might not be true to type, as the vendor's description is different than the norm, but I'm guessing it's stable. I love it, though. It tastes excellent in cold weather at the end of the season (which is a very desirable trait, especially as I believe it tastes great after ripening indoors, too); I say 'I believe' because I didn't keep track of which unripe tomatoes were which, strictly, but I had one that was in a spot where some Tatura tomatoes should have been, and it tasted like Tatura. I'm excited to grow Tatura next year (and give it more priority).

Linda, you had some bad experiences with Prudens Purple but I consider it a more reliable variety than any Brandywine strain and with the same great flavor. It is more productive and a few weeks earlier. It is almost as productive as the hybrids BrandyBoy and BrandyMaster.

According to information from Carolyn Male Prudens Purple is not relate to Brandywine or any Brandywine strain in any way shape or form. It is a different strain of tomato all together. Many people say they have similar flavor but that is all.

I appreciate all the information, thank you.

Yea, just similar size, shape( including leaf), flavor and color. Even closer traits to Suduth or Joyce’s Brandywine than Carolyn’s Brandywine OTV. Other than than those traits Prudens Purple is vastly different in production and earliness.

Barrie,

Thanks for the information. This is good to know. I have no experience with this strain so have very limited knowledge, except for what I have read on web.

Well, if what I had was an orangish red version of Brandywine, I very much disagree about them tasting similar (whether grown in my yard or my friend's, although it was definitely closer to my friend's). Pruden's Purple is unlike any other tomato I've tasted, IMO (granted it has a mild, slightly acidic, light taste; hamburger definitely enhances the taste). I've tasted a number of tomatoes that are said to taste like Brandywine, and I thought they were all pretty different from PP, too (but most of them were similar to each other). I think the varieties similar to Brandywine have a stronger smell in the mouth (which identifying smell is entirely absent in PP), and a heavier, but mild, taste, with less acidity.

Probably the closest-tasting tomato fruit I've found to PP is … Let me check what I've grown; brb. I'd say the texture is something like a mix between Park's Whopper F1 and Mountain Princess, and the flavor is something like a mix between Park's Whopper F1, and Mountain Princess or Manitoba or New Yorker V (grown in dry conditions). Cuostralee (grown in wet conditions) is closer to it than many I've grown, but it's still a ways away.

I'm pretty curious about the Vorlon tomato. It's a cross between Pruden's Purple and Cherokee Purple. I wonder how it compares to either.

Barrie, you are right that PP is earlier and more productive than BW. Much as I love BW, I haven't grown it in years because it is so darned late, and the fruit are so large that they rot before ripening here.

I cant really say if they share the same taste as I've never grown the two side by side.

Linda

We grew these 5 PL plants and I can only report on taste, not on productivity since Fusarium Wilt killed them all by end of August.

Listed in order of best tasting:

1) Brandywine Sudduth -- best tasting of all (perfectly balanced btw sweet and tangy).

2) Lucky Cross -- these yellow with pink swirls huge beefsteaks tasted fantastic (on the tangy side).

3) Prudence Purple -- fantastic taste (on the sweet side).

4) Brandy Boy -- another fantastic tasting beefsteak (on the tangy side).

5) Stump of the World -- compared to the other four (which were superb in flavor) its taste was disappointing.

Tony

Shule,

This is the first I have heard of the Vorlon tomato variety, I would like to learn more about it. A Cherokee Purple x Prudens Purple sounds very interesting to me, it must taste amazing.

Shule,

I looked it up and according to what I found it is a Bulgarian cross and is CP x PP.

I think it was in Johnny's Seed. Will have to try it.

authereray --- here are seeds for the Vorlon (let us know how you like it when you grow it).

Tony

https://www.rareseeds.com/vorlon-tomato/

We grew Vorlon in 2014 and again in 2015. Seed source was Baker Creek. Compared to each of it's parents (in our garden), the taste was blah. There was nothing special about it for us. Some of the subjective "better tasting" dark selections from our Kansas garden have been Owen's Purple (Paul Robeson x Mortgage Lifter), Spudakee, JD's Special C-Tex, Chyornyi Tarasenko and Margaret Curtain to name a few.

Shell

Shell,

Although the reviews at Baker Creek for Vorlon all look positive (with regard to taste), I do admit that I've heard mixed things about Vorlon. I have seeds that I want to try some year. Some people love it, at least; some, not as much. I'm still curious about it.

I have read a lot of great things about JD's Special C-Tex. I haven't heard much if anything bad about it. It's not an early tomato, though, otherwise I'm sure I would have grown it by now. (Not that everything I've tried was early or anything.)

I don't know anything about Owen's Purple other than what you just said. :)

In 2015, Paul Robeson for me tasted great, but production, heat-tolerance, fruit size, and hang-time weren't the best. I think I got almost a dozen, medium-sized, brown fruits, but most of them turned to liquid and broke as soon as they ripened. It probably could have done better with more organic matter, and more sunlight.

Napa Giant (which is a Mortgage Lifter selection for large size) has had okay taste for me, and very low production, but large fruit. I've grown it twice. I had more fruits the second year, but still low production. I know the variety can be amazingly productive in other gardens, though. It's probably not a big fan of soils with more clay in them. We had one or two fruits the first year and maybe four fruits the second year (from saved seed).

One popular one that did well for me this year, though, was Pink Berkeley Tie Dye. Lots of large, juicy, sweetish fruits. It didn't keep producing all season, but it produced a lot. Last year, it was another story (it produced a few small to medium tomatoes that took until well after the first frost to ripen), but I saved seeds and planted them again, and it did very well, without much watering at that (I probably gave it too much water last year, though).

Shule .... Nice selection with the PBTD. I think it's one of the best Gates varieties we've grown. We last grew it in 2015. Shape and size was all over the place on that one. Production was moderate to good. Overall, I really liked the taste and will grow it again. We took a few to market and some of our more adventurous customers bought them and the feedback was very positive. Those same customers liked the Girl Girl's in 2016 as well.

We have never grown Napa Giant. It's been on my wish list for several years but I don't have any seeds.

A comment on Paul Robeson: This one seems to be a love/hate in all the forum reviews but ..... IMO, in our raised bed gardens, this variety has produced some of the very best tasting fruits we have ever grown ..... but as we all know, there are so many factors that impact this from year to year (and of course, taste is subjective).

I checked my database and we still have Vorlon seeds. Maybe it's time to give it another try. I'm thinking we'll grow a few and then we can compare the results :).

Shell

Shell, I'll be growing Vorlon too next year, so we all can compare notes.

Already got the seeds from Baker and also got some Early Moonbeam watermelon to try and grow on a trellis. Let me know what you think, also any advice from anyone on growing melons is much appreciated, since we've never grown them before.

Thanks, Tony

https://www.rareseeds.com/early-moonbeam-watermelon/

That makes me want to grow my Vorlon seeds next year, too. I can only do so many varieties (I have to cut down next year); so, we'll see.

Tony,

Early Moonbeam was bred and stabilized from Yellow Doll F1. I haven't tried Early Moonbeam, but I grew Yellow Doll F1, this year.

Here's my analysis of Yellow Doll F1: Most people love its taste, but none of the yellow, orange, or white watermelons I grew this year (including YD) had much flavor to me (the red and pink ones were fine as long as they were ripe, normally, however). The white one has the most flavor of the three. However, a relative really liked YD, but she did admit that it was mild, and she liked the Cream of Saskatchewan more. The flavor was good (and the flesh was easy to eat), but it was very mild. Most people say it's really sweet, but it wasn't really sweet to my tongue. The color of YD was really nice. There are two kinds of yellow flesh for watermelon. YD has the kind that more people seem to prefer (the other yellow flesh trait is called Salmon). YD is known to do well in a wide variety of climates.

Yellow Doll F1 initially had above-average vigor in our soil/climate, but it didn't get full-sized fruit (although it did get probably at least four fruits). Ancient and Santo Domingo Winter also had above-average vigor early on, too.

Our soil is more compact and cool (notwithstanding the hot air) than is probably ideal for most watermelons—and we've had lots of spider mites, lately. So, I've been growing a lot of watermelon varieties, searching for the ones that do the best in our garden (I've trialled somewhere close to 60 varieties, I think). My favorites for production, so far are these:

Red-seeded Citron (moderate moisture; 1st year; we got about 15 fruits), Navajo Winter (dry; 2nd year), Navajo Red (dry; 1st year), Congo (dry; 2nd year), Orangeglo (dry; 1st year), King Winter (wet/dry; 1st/2nd year), Yellow Doll F1 (dry; 1st year), and Moon and Stars (dry; 2nd year). Some others might go here.

My favorites for reaching a large size (for our garden), and/or the size it's probably actually supposed to be are Ledmon (wet conditions; 2nd year), Congo (dry; 2nd year), Red-seeded Citron (moderate moisture; 1st year), Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year), Moon and Stars (wet/dry; 1st and 2nd year), Verona (wet; 1st year), Navajo Winter (dry; 2nd year), Sugar Baby (moderate; 1st year, but we grew it from 1st-year plants multiple times), Black Diamond (dry; 1st year), Florida Giant (dry; 1st year), Carolina Cross #183 (wet/dry; 1st and 2nd year), Fairfax (wet; 2nd year), and maybe Wintermelon. The largest watermelon fruit I've grown to date was a Ledmon (wet; 2nd year). Congo was the largest, this year (dry conditions; 2nd year growing it).

My favorites for earliness so far are Blacktail Mountain (wet; 1st year—it was early the 2nd year in dry conditions, too, but not as early, perhaps), Verona (wet; 1st year), and Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year).

My favorites for taste, so far, are Ledmon (wet; 2nd year), Tom Watson (wet; 2nd year), Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year), Verona (wet; 1st year), Black Diamond (dry; 1st year), and Sugar Baby (1st year).

My favorite watermelons for smell, so far, are Wintermelon (dry; 1st year) and Jubilee (moderate moisture; 1st year).

Overall, I'd say the ones I like the most are these: Congo (dry; 2nd year), Santo Domingo Winter (dry; 1st year), Black Diamond (dry; 1st year), Ledmon (wet; 2nd year), Navajo Winter (dry; 2nd year; not sure on taste, though), and Verona (wet; 2nd year).

I'd like to see a cross between Black Diamond (and/or Congo) and Santo Domingo Winter.

The plants in wetter conditions didn't have any eastern sun (but they had a lot of sun otherwise).

Anyway, tips on growing watermelon may vary depending on your growing conditions. I imagine yours are probably easier to get large fruit in than mine. I'll tell you the general advice I read, and then I'll tell you some extra thoughts.

People generally say to create hills for your watermelon so as to help warm the soil (I imagine that helps in some areas, but in mine, I think the soil would dry out too fast, due to how strong our sun is). They say to water a lot (I think this is generally a good idea for a good part of the season, depending on various factors, but I think some varieties like dry conditions better; I think the conditions you grew them in the year before matter, too, even if the genes are still the same). They say to you can have up to three plants per hill (this is *very* true, in my experience; you don't need to thin to one plant; however, I've tried with more than three on lots of varieties, and you can probably expect smaller fruit if you do that). They say stuff about fertilizer (and more stuff about water; I don't like to fertilize unless the plants ask for it, except maybe at the beginning of the season; I can't speak for what works the best there, though). Some people say not to grow some other members of the same family nearby as it may affect the flavor (I don't know why this would be true, but I'd have to experiment more to form an opinion). They say to use compost and stuff (plenty of organic matter; this is generally helpful for almost any plant, but I don't always do it). They say not to plant in compact soil (I have compact soil; it is true that it's a challenge, but it's possible to get a good harvest in it). They say to grow watermelons where it's hot (they probably do best where both the days and nights are hot; we have hot days and cool nights; I think the soil is a more important factor; I know of people in the area that don't seem to have trouble growing large, long watermelons in their gardens). They say areas with cooler nights may result in smaller fruit (I'm undecided on this). They say round watermelons generally do better in conditions similar to mine than long ones do in conditions similar to mine (they seem to do better more often, but I don't know about always). They say not to start watermelon indoors too early (I haven't noticed a big difference between performance between watermelon started super early and watermelon started a few weeks before transplant; however, the younger ones, as long as they're not too young, can have a growth advantage). I've found that the more leaves a watermelon has before the transplant, the more likely it is to be stunted. I think actually removing most of the pre-transplant leaves may help the plant to grow faster (they say the taproot being bent from growing too long in a container or disturbed is what causes issues, but I hypothesize that it might be the pre-transplant leaves that are what stunts them or causes problems). I've noticed that watermelon seeds that I expose to magnets for a while seem to sprout a lot faster in colder temperatures (in an outdoor greenhouse in the spring), so far.

Pruning the old leaves off soon before the time of year when the plants start to get diseases, if you have diseases (and/or if your plant stops growing), is something that I think could potentially help the plants survive longer and reduce the spread of disease (at least in my garden; spider mites and something that I've thought was foliar anthracnose, but that may be a similar infection, seem to be problems in my garden). The reason I think it might help is because the vines that grow out the farthest away from the main body of watermelon foliage tend to be the vines that live the longest with the fewest disease symptoms.

I've found that direct-seeded watermelons (in my garden), and ones I start early (but don't let them grow very big) seem to get much smaller fruit than those I let grow to a certain size before I transplant them.

People say if you save your seeds, you should ferment them (as people do with tomatoes). I don't do that (at this time), but I do zap them with all three frequencies of a Z4EX for a total of 45 minutes before I dry them (as an experimental precaution against disease). I believe I've read that fermenting doesn't kill anthracnose, anyway (so, why not experiment?) I haven't noticed more disease in my saved seeds; the only varieties I've seen that had some kind of resistance seemed to be Red-seeded Citron (moderate moisture; 1st year; it seemed quite resistant, but I didn't have it growing close to other varieties—it was by muskmelons/cantaloupes), and Ledmon (wet; 2nd year), as well as late-to-mature varieties (they tend to survive until the fruit ripens; however, the spider mites and such seem to make most varieties ripen faster). My germination rates are great (better than store-bought seeds; they sprout faster, too); I think that's most people's experience when they save their own seeds, though (I don't think the store-bought seeds are worse, but they're probably not as fresh, and not as used to growing in the same magnetic fields that exist in the region or something).

Shell, thanks.

I've got plenty of Napa Giant seeds that I've saved (both from last year and this year). I think I might have given my store-bought seeds to a friend (but I could have some left, if you want me to check; and when she grows it I'm sure she's give me more). My friend ferments her seeds. I don't ferment mine, though (I just work at removing the gel sacks, wash them, and then I zap them in water with copper pipes with a Z4EX; I dry them in/on brown paper bags and/or in herbal tea bags in a room with a box fan going, and I eventually put them in a foam cooler for storage to prevent fast fluctuations in temperature and humidity); so, if you're big on fermenting, you'd probably want to ferment them after you got them, just in case.

I don't bag my blossoms, though; so, there is a chance of cross-pollination with any of about 100 varieties. This year, it was closest to Scary Larry, a Super Snow White cross, McGee, Anna Banana Russian, Green Pear, Oroma, Manitoba, Yellow Trifele, Red Beauty, Snow Fairy, Julia Child, Anna Russian, Early Wonder, Thessie O, and stuff like that. Last year, it was next to Indian Zebra (or Indian Stripe, whichever you want to call it), Purple Bumble Bee, Porter, Cherokee Green Pear, Tim's Black Ruffles, Sweet Orange Cherry, Celebrity F1, Chapman, Cuostralee, Matina, and a number of others. It didn't 'appear' to be crossed when I grew it this year.

If you want to trade seeds (or send me a SASE), take a look at my lists. I've got a lot (I have lots of store-bought seeds—saved ones, too for various species of plants). :) I only do trades in the USA, though, and only if they're legal to ship (so, I can't accept Allium sets and seed potatoes, since I'm in Idaho).

DAGMA'S PERFECTION

Got free seeds for it, and was wondering if anyone has an experience growing it.

We like juicy, tangy and crisp tomatoes (not soft, pasty or sweet).

Thanks, Tony