Not amending my soil adequately. I've killed a lot of roses this way. Our soil is pottery-quality clay that needs huge amounts of organic matter if it's to grow anything. I didn't realize, early on, just how much amendment it did need; and I had read some advice not to amend the soil, just plant the rose and top dress with mulch. WORST ADVICE EVER. But I had to kill a lot of roses, and watch others sit there for years struggling for breath, before I learned just how bad the advice was. I killed some very wonderful, hard to get roses this way, that now I regret greatly. But learning is like that: mistakes are inevitable. I hope this thread reduces your errors and consequent plant deaths.

I wrote that ,I think on one of the threads when I bought roses (ARE) in Nov. And I also wrote a friend gave me 2 roses that she had . It is huge. She had it 6 years maybe 7 and gave it to me. She ask me to prune it so it is easy to plant it since it was like 6 feet. I did not prune that hard but prune 1 foot or btw 2 . To me that is a lot. Besides the center was all cross so I have to cut reading all materials on line that middle of rose needs to be free so it can breathe. So, I cut branches that crosses over.

It is not a new plant as baby rose but it is " new' to me. As you can see the branch in pic is old and thick from the previous pic

Jin

Trying to take a few pics when sun is high.

I am still worried Bec I really do not want to make any mistakes. So, if I did or if you see anything point it out.

Rosylady, my friend also bought it from Home Depot. She also did not prune and the branches are all over crossed paths and trust me I am very , very new. So to prune it was so, so difficult. I cannot tell ' eyes' from old wood. So, that part I am going to wait till I understand better.

I am sorry you when through all that and that is why I am on this forum to learn more. And due to all you guys I bought a lot more roses and I am sure I would have done exactly what you did.

Is there a way to grow more shoots from base of the rose so it becomes bushier? Epson salt ?

I know I have to prune a little more to shape it but I will wait till next fall or winter so I can be more confident.

The above is gold medal rose. It is also around 6 years old. I prune that also . It grew new shoots and I counted 8 buds . Now, it bloom some roses .

Jin

Ah ha, I just cut another branch of Queen Elizabeth by the flower ( you can see in the pic) . A branch was nearly touching...see I even miss that.

Jin

Thinking I could get rid of Charles de Mills by digging him up. I'm still digging him up 3 years later. I'll still be digging him up when they carry me off the the Home.

A word of advice from one who knows - plant him where you want him to live forever. It would have been much easier to relocate the roses around him than to try to dislodge this real estate monster from his patch of ground.

PlumeriaGirl, I am a newbie like yourself, but have had great results topdressing with alfalfa hay and watering with alfalfa tea. It really seems to have encouraged basals. Straw on the Organic Rose Forum had a couple of other suggestions, so you may want to visit some of those posts. I'll have a look later and see if I can jog my memory. The AT also really helps with root formation.

My biggest newbie mistake was planting sun-loving roses in too much shade. They grew backwards and defoliated from BS. In my defense, I figured morning sun would be enough, but the afternoon shade was coming from all angles and was too intense. I also didn't have any other prepared bed, so I just put them there to get them through the winter. Hopefully, the Hybrid Musk (Lavender Lassie) and hydrangeas I planted in their place will do better!

Vaporvac, I was going to do alfalfa but I did not know about hay form. Where do you get hay from ? Thank you for your advice I will get hay if I can find it.

And thanks for heads up on Lavender Lassie, it is being shipped to me as we speak.

Jin

Flowersaremusic, how big was Charles de Mills ? Did you relocate it elsewhere ? Sorry, it is a beautiful rose but I don't know much about Charles de Mills.

Jin

Jin, there are whole threads devoted to CdM and his rambunctious personality. There's probably more info than you want to hear, lol. Just do a search here in Antique Roses.

Edit: Just for reference, I have a CdM forest that is more than 20 feet across in every direction. It started as a cutting.

Now back on topic, my worst mistake was not researching what was wrong with my roses when some strange growth showed up many years ago. I trimmed it off and thought that was the end of it. It turned out to be my first experience with RRV, and it wasn't pretty. By the time it infected enough roses for me to get serious about investigating what it was, two family heirlooms were total losses: a City of York that came from my grandmother's ancient plant, and a 50 year old Peace. I lost several more in the initial epidemic, and almost gave up growing roses at all. Don't shrug off anything unusual in your garden...ask here on the forums, research it, google it, find out!

John

Jin, Charles is a spreader like none other, I have read here. I don't have it, but it just takes over. I don't think the Gallica roses are good in your climate anyway, so count your blessings.

Yes, anything to do with Gallica' I am out. Sorry, I been reading so much on Organic rose forum for hours. It is very interesting.

John, that is HUGE. 20 feet from a cutting. WOW!! Sorry, for your loss City of York is definitely very special since it is from your grandmother' s time and so was Peace.

Home Depot email me today to let me know they have Peace and I forgot all about it ( I must have signed up over 1 yr ago). So, I am getting one tomorrow.

I like strawberry. She is so, so detail. I feel like I just came out of a maths class. I never knew about tap water or rain acid or any numbers. So lost that is beyond my comprehension of understanding anything.

Ok, I Google on hay. It is better for me on line. Thanks for information Vap :)

Jin

Jin, I do find what I water my plants with really affects them. When it's tap water, they survive, but once it rains they flourish. Many plants don't like high chlorine, so that a factor in addition to PH. I'm glad you're enjoying the Organic Forum. We need some more action over there, although some of those posts will make your head spin! ; ) I bought alfalfa hay at a local farm and feed store. You can also use it to make tea instead of the pellets. I just mix some in my planting holes.

Hey John,

I Google your rose, City of York. See, I was reading and listening to you. John.

OMG, she is BEAUTIFUL. I Google and no, I am not ready but when I am I might get her if she can grow in my zone...lol.

Jin

Jin, my Charles de Mills was a big guy, but not as massive as John's, covering a good 10x10' area. Thank goodness, I didn't know anything about soil, compost, fertilizer, etc. when I planted him, or he might have been a forest like John's. I planned to replant a couple of his suckers but after all that digging and pleading with him to vacate the premises, I was just so over him. I sent some suckers to a friend on the other side of the country and she says he is thriving.

I don't mean to disparage Chas. He is definitely a rose everyone should grow if they have the room, because he is a classic, much loved old garden rose - gallica, with absolutely gorgeous deep purpley red, velvety blooms that have a strong fragrance. It was my silly fault for planting him in the wrong place.

I see from your comment above that gallicas are out for you. Good decision, unless you have acreage.

Get a budded CdM. It won't be going anywhere..

I just wanted to mention that alfalfa hay will often have weed seeds so I put it in the hole in general. When I put it on as a top dressing I try and cover it with something to prevent them sprouting. I figured you didn't need anymore problems!

Two major mistakes in my case: 1) not enriching my decomposed granite "soil" with good soil and manure of some type before planting a single rose. What you try to do afterwards is not nearly as good. Even now most areas of my "garden" have no worms to speak of, and that tells you something is amiss. 2) discarding roses too quickly before giving them a chance to grow up and show their true potential. Now I err on the side of caution and leave moribund roses in forever in the hope that they'll pull up their socks, which is a waste of water. Plum Perfect, are you listening???

My initial thought was to avoid drip irrigation, because I wanted a naturalistic Mediterranean paradise. I did not resonate to plastic tubing. Well, wake up! This area was not Beth Chatto's Eastern England. It was too hot, and thank god my husband and a irrigation specialist put it in. I also echo Ingrid and Melissa's talk of soil improvements needed, because I really had fill/subsoil, instead of real soil.

Marlorena, that is really good!

Thank you, Marlorena, you've made me feel much better. If I allow myself to think about it too much it makes me crazy, especially about the more rare and desirable roses that were discarded much too early. I've pretty well come to the conclusion that we continue to make mistakes until we drop dead.

I think I make the opposite mistake. I keep roses that really should go. I’m loath to dig them out. I don’t mean the ones that just need more time. I mean the ones that don’t really please me and are taking valuable space. The ones that are so heavily virused need to go, too.

I’ve made many mistakes, yet I don’t think I’ve had a rose die on me yet. One mistake I can think of offhand is following Rogue Valley Roses suggestions. Some of the roses they say are “good for pots”, are ridiculous! How they could say Paul Barden’s ‘Sirens Keep’ is “good for pots” is beyond me. They are in California, so I foolishly went with their advice. Lisa

I've made plenty of novice mistakes when I didn't know how well a given rose would grow or survive for me, or how much amendment was good/necessary for my soil. My two biggest mistakes once I knew better were:

1) Top dressing with alfalfa pellets rather than hay. Some of you can do this fine, but for me the pellets got sopping wet with the first rain and rolled against the canes creating an acid soup that rapidly obliterated about 30 roses. The hay tends to stay put for me and doesn't get that gloppy texture of retaining moisture. I buy my hay by 50 pound bales at farm supply stores, but you can get smaller quantities at pet stores any time.

2. Moving roses that are wimpy to start with. I've had OK luck with moving roses that are too big for their sites (though not 100% and I hate to move roses anyway) but have more often than not killed a rose that is a foot high or lower and needs a better spot. My biggest regret was moving the two Sun Sprinkles that I'd planted to commemorate baptism for my twins, that promptly died in their new spot. I can find replacements only at J&P but I don't trust their plants and they're too expensive for minis anyway. I really need to move Nimbus that is only hanging on by its toenails in a part shade spot, but it's hard to find and I really love that color.

Lisa, I'd say that killing as many roses as I have would be a mistake, but in my zone you haven't really grown a rose till you've killed it at least once (at least for HTs and floris). I probably kill off about 150 roses a year, which is what lets me buy as many roses as I do without getting overrun. These days I'm just about at replacement levels for roses that die. Many of them become solid good roses on the 2nd or 3rd try and you never know what will do well in my zone until you try. Never having killed any rose is simply out of my possible understanding for rose growing (smile).

Cynthia

I'm very patient when it comes to shovel pruning. Too patient, maybe. I kept a rose that didn't bloom for 15 years. But, it was healthy. Then, last year it bloomed magnificent, huge, soft pink, fluffy, old fashioned blooms. There were only a few, but they were the kind of blooms I die for. No clue what it is, but I remember buying Austin's Cottage Rose that isn't anywhere in my garden, so that's what I'm calling it until I know better. It's not exactly like the one in Northland's display garden, but close. I'm open to suggestions if someone has a better guess.

Oh , wow. 15 years and it finally bloom. It is beautiful. You have patience and tons of it .

Jin

My worst mistakes involve baby roses. Once I planted a wimpy little band out in the ground in full sun. What an excellent way to kill a rose! I've also accidentally given small potted bands fertilizer burn by repotting them into Miracle Gro potting soil (it was on sale at Costco, and I wasn't thinking properly!) Live and learn. I'm sure I will find more interesting ways to injure my roses in the years to come.

I have no clue Flowers, but it IS lovely! I hope it blooms like that again this year. 15 years! Boy, I thought I was patient. I finally got my first blooms (3-4) from “The Pilgrim” after 6 years. About a month after it bloomed, a gopher came along and chomped most of its roots away. I thought “The Pilgrim” was a goner for sure, but low and behold it made it! It better bloom again this year. I’m going to TRY to part with roses that don’t make me happy. I don’t know why it’s so hard for me.

Cynthia, now that I think about it, I have lost a couple to gophers. If I lived in your zone, you can bet there would be many more. I know nothing about cold weather gardening. You have it much harder than I do. As long as I give it water, it grows, and grows, and grows.

I’ll show you guys how bad I am about shovel pruning anything. The picture below is the spot where I often set my bin when I remove the bottom leaves from flowers destined for the vase. Apparently seeds or flowers have fallen onto the gravel here. I SHOULD pull them up, yet I don’t. I tell myself they can be used for picking, while the others can stay in the border. Ridiculous!! I see 6 different selfsown flowers here! I’m hopeless:) Lisa

I'm with you, Lisa. They look pretty. They want to live.

KS, sorry to hear about your baby roses. Guess, I would have done exactly that unless instructions come in boxes but I doubt it

I should leave it in a pot for how long ? Anyone feel free to explain.

I bought tons of miracle gro also but as garden soil.

Jin

Lisa, you have a ton of patience! Six years is plenty long enough. 15 yrs. borders on lunacy. Gophers! I've lost my share to those underground rascals and to voles. Makes you want to tear your hair out! I hope The Pilgrim survives having his toes chewed off and blooms those cheery yellow blooms again for you this year.

My worst rose mistake? Thinking that every rose would grow well for me here. It's far from reality. Maybe it was my arrogance, since I considered myself a pretty good gardener. My second rose mistake? Thinking that I would be satisfied with minimalism and that I could plant one variety of rose throughout the entire garden. What a mistake. Third rose mistake? Underestimating the amount of water and fertilizer that roses need. Here, they need a lot. And both need to be supplied in carefully regulated amounts. Too much water and soil molds kick in. Too little...well we know what happens. Fertilizer? Roses are more like orchids (my first plant love) than vegetables and the rule is: weekly, weakly (and be careful with newly planted roses. You can't force them to grow by fertilizing more (but too little and they don't budge).

Jin, the problem with planting out a small, weak "band" is that sometimes they are not developed enough to withstand the conditions. Generally they do better (though not always) if you pot them up first and baby them for a while, or at least let them get acclimated to the amount of sun they are going to get slowly rather than planting them out immediately (which is what I did). The poor little thing fried. Bands are smaller than the potted roses you buy at a greenhouse. As for the question of Miracle Gro, chemical fertilizer can burn plants, when given in excessive amounts.

flowersaremusic, people thought I was crazy when I waited 9 years for an orchid to bloom. 15 years is just amazing. I'm impressed. It doesn't sound like Cottage Rose to me, since mine had small flowers, maybe 2 to 2-1/2 inches across and had no fading of the outer petals. It also had very little fragrance if that is any help. I don't know what you have, but it's a beut.

Lisa, I can never get rid of a plant either. I have so many plants that I really should get rid of (both indoors and out) but I can't bear to do it either. For some, I have to watch the slow decline before I finally give up. For others, they grow hog wild and have to come out (i.e. seeds, suckers/runner, or just huge and ugly).

Jin, if you get a grafted CdM because you don't want it to spread, don't plant it too deeply, or it will root above the graft and then start spreading.

I guess my very worst mistake was not planting my first roses in gopher cages. I’m with you, Flowers. They make me want to cry sometimes. I have several that are not in wire cages, and I’m just terrified every time I see a mound nearby. Every single rose gets planted in a cage now. About a month ago, I thought I had lost my “The Faun” rose in spite of it being in a cage. The cage was about 2 inches above the soil line, but a gopher went round and round it. It had mounded the soil up over the lip of the wire cage. I thought that gopher had gotten in there for sure! Thankfully, it didn’t get in after all. My son finally caught it in a trap called “ The Black Hole”. It hardly fit into the trap. It was the biggest gopher I’d ever seen. My boys know I don’t want to see what they caught, but Josh insisted I see the size of this one. Wow! It must be the one that ate my sweet potatoes and my favorite dahlia. It was huge! It’s SO much extra work to plant everything in cages and adds to the cost of each plant. Oh, my yard is equipped with those sonic vibrating beeper things. Don’t waste your money. Lisa

Noseometer, I wasn't really waiting for it to bloom or even thinking about it. It wasn't in the way, so I never took the time to dig it up. It just sat there, not bothering anyone. I ignored it, and the years just kept passing. It was such a surprise last year to see buds on it, then when it gave me that bloom, I was so glad I let it stay.

I'm just starting to dabble in orchids. Nine years doesn't seem excessive. I've never done well with house plants, but orchids are in a class all their own. I have a few that have bloomed and are working on developing their second blooms - well, they're still alive, anyway, judging from their leaves. I just bought some planting medium, orchid food and those clear orchid pots. A girl's got to do something when the roses are under several feet of snow.

Lisa, I feel for you having to plant everything in cages - yes, expensive plus the cost of the rose plus the amendments. This is not an inexpensive sport! I have bait stations around the garden, barn and chicken coop. Voles are my problem. They can squeeze through a hole the size of a pencil, I've been told, as impossible as that sounds. I guess their bones are retractable or something. I started seeing gopher mounds in the lawn last year, so we'll have to check out the Black Hole. Are the vibrating beeper things the ones that are driven into the ground, and you put batteries in them? I have those, and you're right - worthless.

Yep, that’s what I’m talking about. Mine are solar powered, but same worthless things. I’ve tried everything. Now voles, I don’t have. How on earth do you stop something that can squeeze into a hole the size of a pencil? They sound worse than gophers! ( I can’t believe I’m saying that!) Lisa

Gophers look cute though.. No gophers or other burrowing root eating rodents here. The main root eating pests over here are beetle grubs of various species. These don't look cute at all..

Jin

These videos will show you exactly what a bud eye is, and everything else you want to know. If you are like me, you might even giggle and relax a bit about the whole thing. For parts this one I'm linking. After that, go to his list of videos, and put them in order from oldest to newest. You will see how to prune shrub, hybrid tea for big single blooms, you name it. Helped me the most! https://youtu.be/dBDS1AALKFk

I actually wish we had a sticky up top explaining the anatomy, with faq pruning questions.

Witchy, that was really nice! Here's another link that I found helpful, Plumeria Girl which Virginia posted a while back. It has all the parts beautifully Illustrated and named. I've bookmarked it.

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/a-rosy-glossary-from-ellen-wilmott-dsvw-vd~5008500[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/a-rosy-glossary-from-ellen-wilmott-dsvw-vd~5008500)

I just bookmarked it. Thank you Vapor. :-)

I book mark all. Thank you Vap and Witchy. I truly appreciate your help a lot. Thank you for helping :)

Jin

I bookmarked it, too. Thanks

Yuk, Nik. I don’t think gophers are cute at all, but your right grubs are gross! I guess everyone has something! Lisa