The 'Smaragd's (Emerald arbs) can exceed 15' in time and with good growing conditions. But they are not going to do much for street noise abatement......no single line of plants will, regardless of height or density of foliage. You need a solid and somewhat thick surface for that - like a masonry wall.

And lining the entire front garden with these plants will create a feeling of enclosure or confinement that may not be what you desire.

If you live in zone 7 or warmer this idea using tree-form Japanese ligustrum will work for softening the view.

Thanks, everyone! I'm super grateful for all of your feedback and so happy to have this discussion before making an expensive mistake but I'm super confused by some of the feedback. I've read like 3 dozen websites and they all say that trees are much better than fences at blocking noise (article about trees blocking sound) and based on the size of my lot, I thought the narrow but thick emerald green arborvitaes were a good solution. My research also said that emerald greens usually grow between 8 and 12ft but mylocal nursery said that it can get 15ft so I thought I was being generous in my estimates.

There's a tremendous amount of noise and wind pollution coming from the Main Street, so much that it rattles my new upstairs window so I could really use some help. Right now, my property lot is bare and the noise is unbearable.

Gardenpal48, here are some pictures that I found on houzz of other homes, with close neighbours or on busy streets, that have privacy hedges.... These look good to me but if a privacy hedge isn't not right for my home, please help me... I want sound help but I don't want to create an another problem for the home.

Dig Doug Designs, I had one large Japanese privet tree (about 12ft tall and 16 ft wide) at my last house. It was very beautiful as an ornamental tree but it was full, round, and not easy to walk under... So, I'm scared to add some to my narrow 4ft walking path to the front door. That tree also required a lot of maintenance because it sprouted so many limbs-- perhaps, I was over pruning??

They typically do not require a lot of pruning, about the same as crape myrtles. Perhaps you has Ligustrum lucidium, which gets much larger. The key is to buy them already pruned to one to three trunks.

My thoughts are to limb up a large evergreen shrub into tree-form, since you only need the screening above fence height. There are other plants you can use to accomplish this.

Here is an example using Persea borbonia:

If the windows are rattling, consider replacing with ones that are double-paned and tight, or perhaps adjusting/tightening the ones you have and adding storm windows. That will do more for interior noise than trees, which have others have said don't do much of anything for noise abatement. I live at least a half mile through the woods from an interstate, and I still hear it when I am outdoors whether the trees have leaves or not. Check out the quality of paving on the main road and see if repaving to create a more even surface will improve noise levels, and if so see if you can mobilize neighbors to get the city to repave.

if you fill your yard with trees, walking to the door will feel like a tunnel or approaching a haunted castle. Plant for an attractive yard, and accept the noise levels as they are because with that small a yard, as GG48 said, nothing short of a tall masonry wall will help, and that will feel like a fortress. Adding a bubbling fountain near outdoor seating areas may help provide cover for the street noise. Decide if there are sight lines, such as from neighbors' windows, that you want to block, soften the fence with some evergreens and/or vines, and keep in mind the maintenance involved with any garden.

All the photo examples you provided look like larger yards than yours or in planters on a roof which isn't comparable, as well as looking to be relatively newly planted, within not more than 2 or 3 seasons at most. I shudder to think what those green walls will look like in 10 years without extensive pruning.

IMO this will look ridiculous and in no way enhance your home it will be like walking in a dense forest.The amount of pruning every year to keep the trees in check will be horrendous . A nice hedge planted along the fence which BTW will need constant clipping will help absorb some of the sound but honestly you live on a busy street you would be better of getting triple paned windows for noise control. A nice choice of shrubs for the large bed all will help with some noise and dust control but really you knew when you bought that this was one of the things that you bought into but triple paned windows make an amazing difference to the amount of noise inside.

Dig Doug Designs, I really like the foliage on the Persea Borbonia trees that you selected but I fear there future 65 ft height will be too tall for my small yard. I wish I could find a evergreen tree that grew upright, like the Japanese Maple Coral Bark. I really love that tree but wish it was an evergreen. Do you know of any narrow upright evergreen trees or shrubs that could be trained into trees (besides the emerald green tree that doesn't seem to be a crowd favorite)?

Persea doesn't come close to that height in cultivation. The article you read also said: The red bay is often seen as small understory tree - this slow-growing individual in the dry sandy soil of Jack's back yard has added only a couple of feet in height over a 15 years period.

However, I will find something else that will work.

NHBabs, you raise two really good points, if my new windows are rattling, I should contact the vendor and I shouldn't make my yard into a cave by surrounding my from door with trees. I do love my house and I like the location but I thought I would be able to soften the street noise with some trees. I will think some more about species of trees that will be more appealing to the eyes. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks.

Regarding the privacy screen, I was thinking my house would look a lot like the house picture below because it looks like we both have about 25 linear feet in the front of our homes. I didn't think this looked cavish but I also don't have a trained eye for quality landscaping.

I'm wondering, I were to only put one row of hedges in the front of my house, would that be okay or do you think I should avoid the hedges altogether? I would love to know NHBabs, Gardenpal48, Dig Doug Designs and Patrica Colwell Consulting opinions on this question, too. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

For your convenience, here a picture of the front of my and my immediate neighbor's house(s).

I found this information online about the Persea Borbonia trees that suggested that the trees get 65ft. If they don't get this tall in the pacific northwest, please let me know. I really like the Perseas because they remind me of the Brisbane Box trees that I had in my back yard in my last house that had a narrow based but was fast growing and tall. Thanks.

This idea uses Jack Frost ligustrum pruned into tree-form Tops out about 10 ft tall.

Where exactly are you located? We can't make very good suggestions about what plants might work until we know that. Broadleafed evergreen trees are limited in most cases to the milder winter climate areas.

And it's not that we are necessarily opposed to arborvitaes :-) They are a great narrow choice for privacy screening across a wide range of climates and conditions. But to fence off your entire front garden with them is too much of a good thing - to much all the same; too much of feeling of creating a tight, green "box" and with no individual aesthetic appeal. You need some variety and contrast. And that's a very nice looking fence and it would be a shame to obscure it totally with a wall of arbs.

Re: the fence and plants thing and street noise. Sound waves are deflected by a solid surface. They will easily penetrate through the branches and leaves of any plant but will bounce off the surface of even a wooden fence, provided the spaces between the boards are not too large. Even better is a solid masonry wall. That is what is used alongside the interstate highways that run through the populated part of a city - tilt-up concrete walls 10-12" thick and 10-15' tall. These are called "sound walls" and are used whenever a residential neighborhood abuts within 500' of a freeway. To produce a similar noise reducing effect with plants you would need at least a 30' wide planting of evergreens solidly branched and with foliage all the way to the ground. I am not sure what sources you were reading but they were incorrect - plants are just not the slightest bit efficient at reducing street noise unless it is a very deep and thick planting.......far more than you could possibly cram into your garden!!

Can you plant the evergreens outside your fence, similar to your neighbor on the right in the photo

The look you show of the house across the street looks great. No problem as long as you stay on top of the pruning.

Gardenpal48 I am located in Seattle, in hardiness zone 8b, in an industrial neighborhood. I definitely don't have 30 feet for plants... That's why I was considering the emerald green trees because they only get 3-4 wide. I guess, that's like putting lipstick on a pig, huh? LOL. But, I have been to my neighbour to the right yard and his laurel hedge softens (not mute) some of the street noise.

shwshw, there is about 2ft of planting space outside of my fence, near the street. I'm not sure if that's enough space to plant the emerald green trees?? I'm not opposed to planting the trees there, tho.... Would you like the hedge better in front of the fence, if that worked? I thought it would be more attractive to have the hedge inside of the fence, as a background to the fence and to the Japanese Snowbells, that will hopefully blossom in the spring.

Thanks for everyones input. I had planned to plant 2-3 little gem evergreen magnolia trees inside of the planting strip, on the city street. They only get 8-10ft wide and 20-25 ft tall... Would one or two of these trees be good for inside of the yard too? I thought they may be too big.

Here is a picture of some mature little gem trees.

OK - I just saw you are in the PNW.....that's my neck of the woods as well so that simplifies things :-))

Regarding the first inspiration photo showing an arborvitae hedge - it doesn't look very cave-like because there is also no fence and the arbs do not encircle the entire front of the property and they have also been pruned to stay at lower height...you can see the tops shaved off flat. If they remain less than a person's height, there is much less of a sense of enclosure or confinement.

In all my years as a professional gardener, I have never seen Persea growing here, so for whatever reason, doubt that would be a viable choice. Ligustrum is also not highly recommended for this area.

Azara microphylla is a narrow growing, tallish evergreen shrub or shrub like tree. Gets about 15-20' tall, has very fragrant, early (Feb/March) yellow flowers and can be a good privacy screen. I just included several for that purpose in a recent design that had some tight siting. Can be pruned as desired but doesn't require much.

Another excellent privacy screening plant is clumping bamboo. Fargesia robusta grows to 18', is non-invasive (requires NO containment) and moves easily in any breeze, creating a soft whispering sound that will help some with street noise.

I still would not use these to completely enclose your property but a couple of plants strategically placed will help with privacy issues.

But not much help with sound. Just not gonna cut that issue with plants :-(

Gardengal48, I love all of your suggestions. I'm wondering if you've had good experience with Bambusa Textilis Gracilis. I've read online that it is also a good bamboo privacy screen, still non-invasive, and its a bit more narrow... Although, I still LOVE the airy look for the Fargesia Robusta!!

the fargesia r. are really nice looking.

to get the look below, how would you prune them?

I have two varieties of bamboo in containers. They do seem to like a lot of water. the downside to these guys is the mess from their leaves. I like how these pics showing the ground around the bamboo look so pristine! And the ones on the fence, I'm wondering how the neighbors would like all those leaves falling into their yards???!

Not nearly as winter hardy as the Fargesias. They are rated down to zone 6 so a piece of cake here, while the Bambusa is recommended for zone 9a and above. It would be a shame to waste the time, effort and $$ on a privacy screen just to have it knocked out in one of our "serious" winters :-)

As to the magnolias, Little Gem has issues with snow and is frequently damaged when we get one of our typical wet and heavy snowfalls. A better choice would be Magnolia grandiflora 'Southern Charm' (aka Teddy Bear) or 'Victoria'. btw, Victoria is on the list of Seattle's approved street trees (any trees planted in parking strips or boulevards must be permitted and vetted by the City Arborist).

Seattle Street Trees

Beth, I thought the Fargesias were evergreen... Do they just shed a ton all year long? Which bamboo varieties do you have planted inside of containers? Why have you had a hard time pruning your bamboo inside of the containers?

Gardenpal48, I think I'm on board with the fargesias They are simply beautiful-- sorta whimsical and much better than the stagnant emerald greens! I'll start searching for some today. I've been having a hard time finding quality trees from nurseries. For instance, I searched for the Magnolia Victoria from the Big Trees (Snonomish), Nursery Trees (Woodinvale), West Seattle Nursery, and Rosso Gardens, and I've only been able to come up with the Little Gem, as the only evergreen Magnolia being in stock. One of those aforementioned vendors told me that the city would allow the Little Gem because it's a Magnolia Grandiflora.... I better double check, tho. By chance, do you know of a vendor with the Victoria in stock?

rfharmon,,i have a black bamboo in smaller container that's slow growing, and the regular, thinner green stalk (sorry, don't know the variety) that's very fast. I have that one in a large ceramic container (like, 3' tall). they tend to like to be a little root bound, so I leave it there, water frequently and prune it once a year. It reaches to my roofline.

Gardenpal48, thanks for the City of Seattle planting rules. I contacted the department of forestry on Thursday to get this exact information and the arborist that I spoke to didn't provided it to me so I assumed the info wasn't provided to the public.... I have another question, would you recommend planting the fargesias inside (in the garden) or outside of the fence (near the street)? Thanks in advance for your advice.

rfharmon, you are still a bit too early in the season to find a lot of these plants in stock :-) Most local nurseries do not get their current stock in until at least the end of this month and depending on the plants, often later. That would be the case with any evergreen magnolias, as they will be pot grown and can be easily damaged by the cold weather we still can experience. Check with Swanson's or Sky or Wells Medina - if not on order for this season's sales, they should be able to special order. And you should be able to get approval from the city arborist for another compact evergreen magnolia to use as a street tree (Alta, Teddy Bear, Kay Parris)

Personally, I would plant the bamboo inside the fence as it is a lovely plant to see growing or from inside the house. Why let passers by have all the enjoyment?? But I'm not sure it makes any difference one way or the other except as a personal choice. In either location it will provide the needed privacy screen.

Gardenpal48, I sincerely appreciate all of your help.

Dig Doug Designs, can you please let me know the name of the shrubs that you used inside of your design? I would like to plant some along my walking path. Thanks.

primarily I used different types of lantana & nepeta

'Little Gem' also often mildews in the Pacific Northwest, gets burnt by low temperatures - there was an episode just a few years ago where many examples in local plantings got hit. For similar general visual characteristics try the 'Kay Parris' instead, it's half 'Little Gem' and half the tougher 'Bracken's Brown Beauty'.

Most of the southern magnolias presented by retailers here come from this company, so what they are producing determines to a large extent what we here in this market will encounter.

http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/search/?query=magnolia+grandiflora

Be sure to explore their depictions of each kind, noting in particular crown sizes expected to be produced.

Lantana is not going to work well here in the PNW unless treated as an annual.

Although forest-farm, Colvos Creek, Herons-wood and Cistus have all sold the persea in the past - and the University of Washington Botanic Gardens have grown it since 1958 - it is essentially a mild climate plant also. Anyway some things that may be of interest at this time:

- Hedging in a rectangular lot, where there is not going to be a lot of additional planting can be made more interesting by making each side of the lot a different species of plant, so that there are 4 different hedges instead of the same hedge all the way around

- Here in USDA 8 hedges can be made using light reflective broad-leaved evergreens instead of light-absorbing (shadowy) conifers, with there even being scope for flowering - yet evergreen - hedges using such kinds as camellias, 'Frades' escallonia* or laurustinus

- Even where conifer hedging seems the best choice it is not necessary to end up looking at long runs of the same green conifers - a given section can instead be accented with a different, yellow kind at the half way point, flanked by one each of a blue kind to form a transition between the yellow and the green

- Over time the snowdrop trees aren't going to fit in the space you have them in now**, whereas you could get a single coral-bark maple to work there

- The existing lawn is so small that unless it is being kept for something like toy dog use you would probably do better replacing it with stone pavers, which would produce a stronger texture more able to balance the much larger, surrounding unpaved space

- There is no law against you filling your lot with trees, shrubs and other plants to produce a home jungle, into which you can disappear from the surrounding urbanity. And a lot of decorative foliage plants - the same kinds of things favored by tropicalissimo enthusiasts - look just right with modern, rectilinear architecture such as you have

*Using this involves risk of it freezing down in a killer winter - 1990 for instance - and having to start over from the crowns

**One on 24th Ave NE was 49 ft. tall in 1990, another at 32nd Ave NE & NE 88th St was 37 ft. high in ~2005, a third, on Azalea Way in the Arboretum had an average crown spread of 37 1/2 ft. at about the same time, and so on - see Jacobson, Trees of Seattle - Second Edition (2006)

And whatever you plant inside or outside your front fence is going to be trimmed by the utility company if it intrudes into the space for those utility wires strung in front of your house.

Embothrium, please excuse my delayed response. Can you please let me know if you would recommend me removing all three of the Japanese Snowbells, they are 10ft apart? If so, do you, by chance, know of someplace to donate/discard them?

Hey guys, a year later, I've done a ton of planting. I think my garden looks great (??) but I'm wondering about 2 things:

1. On the wall closes to my house, I purchased a compact Miwa Japanese Maple Tree to plant between the Bihou Maple and the Camellia shrub. I'm wondering if you all would prefer the wall with or without the Miwa maple, or if you would prefer that I add something softer-- like White Hydrangeas?

2. On the side of my garden, next to my neighbor's house, there's a narrow wind tunnel straight to my master bedroom windows so I wanted to plant a dense evergreen tree. I was thinking Italian Cypress, Emerald Green, Slender Hinoki False Cypress, or Eddie Yew. I would love to know your preference for my space.

Update, I removed the 3 Japanese Snowbell trees in the front of the yard and replaced them with 3 Teddy Bear Magnolias.

If any of you would be so very kind to provide me with some guidance, it would be greatly appreciated. Embothrium, NHBabs, Gardenpal48, Dig Doug Designs and Patrica Colwell Consulting, Beth

1) I wouldn't plant the maple there. Both the existing JM and the camellia will get much larger than they are now and eventually that bed will be quite full as is. I'd also be a bit concerned as to how close the current JM is to house as well. What is the distance away from that wall?

2) Italian cypress never thrive here so skip that choice. I am a big fan of Hinoki's but it is a stretch to consider them 'dense' - they tend to have a rather open, sculptural growth habit. The yew is a good choice but very slow growing.

Hi Gardenpal48, I sincerely appreciate your feedback! Per your suggestion, I will return the 2 Italian cypress trees and the Miwa maple to the nursery.

The JM is about 4ft from the wall but currently doesn't have any limbs that run parallel to the house (purchased this way) so I planned to keep it bare on the side near the house. Please let me know if I should still be concerned re: spacing.

I love the Hinoki and like the Yew and was able to find some tall ones at the Big Tree Nursery in Snohomish. Before I purchase, I would also like to know if your a fan of the Arborvitae for my yard b/c I can buy one larger and cheaper than the aforementioned Yew and Hinoki trees.

Thanks a million!!

In order to give any feedback on arborvitae, we need to know what kind, or are you referring specifically to the Emerald Green referenced above? There are a bunch of types, and some are far too large for your yard while others might work. What is the width of the space you want for this evergreen, and is there a height limit?

Welcome to the party, NHBabs! I was specifically interested in the emerald green arborvitae. I have about 10ft of width space for the privacy tree, in order for me to leave enough space to have a significant walk path to the backyard. There are no height restrictions...

After reading few nursury websites, I think the emerald green is no longer a viable option for that space because that space is shady and I read online that the emerald green loves the sun.

So, my choices are between the Eddie Yew and the Slender Hinoki Cypress. I'm leaning towards the Hinoki Cypress because I read online that the Eddie Yew has a hard time with the snow and we just had a terrible winter in Seattle. Have any thoughts on my thoughts?

I will leave specific plant suggestions to those folks in your area. I have a feeling that what I consider a terrible winter is a bit different than yours . . .

;>)

I wouldn't worry about the space you indicated being too shady for the EG arb - that's not enough shade to be a concern. But it is an extremely boring, overly functional choice (a reason why you find them big and cheap around here :-)) that is more typically used as a screening hedge than as a specimen plant.

And our winter was a piece of cake until February! It is hard to reconcile a record breaking snowfall with a more typical winter here where we receive only a few inches of snow - if that - that is melted by the next day. A once in a 10-20 year freak snowfall would not deter me from planting the yew and the damage it might incur should that happen would be present elsewhere in your garden as well......like with the evergreen magnolias.

But it is your garden and your choice :-)

btw, the siting of the JM should be fine. It was just hard to see from the photo alone how close or distant it was from the side of the structure.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to buy the Yew or Cypress this week and will take pictures.

Love your yard! I’m reading this through and curious what you decided and how everything is looking. I’m coming across this thread because I’m also trying to make a decision regarding Hinoki cypress trees.

Hi Emile, thanks for the reminder to post the final pics. I decided on 2 arborvitae trees. Please see below, thanks. I’m actually selling this house this week and will miss the garden the most!

I’m super grateful to everyone in this group who discouraged me from planting rows of arborvitae trees... y’all are the real mvps! Thank you!!!