a guy selling a prima nova (25k) burner on ebay sold the kit with the parts he received from bluestar. it included the #45 orifice, venturi tube, venturi tube gasket, and the burner head. the "sold" listing is probably still up if you want to check it out.

Couldn't find it, in active and sold listings unfortunately. My info came directly from a bluestar rep. One of the bluestar staff here is wrong...

*edit* I did find that link, but through google not eBay for some reason. Seller indicates the orifice is not marked so it'd be difficult to confirm. He also doesn't give a part number for the orifice.

Bluestar should offer the 25k on the RNB to avoid so many people having to make mods. Why they don't is totally baffling.

Truth be told. I do most of my cooking on the 22K burners. I don't know why, but it's what I do.

catinthehat, here is the link to the sold listing which is titled:

Bluestar Range Primanova 25,000 BTU 25k burner Blue Star Platinum with Orifice

link

I believe bluestar regulators for NG are set at 7” WC. If you pull up an orifice chart, you’ll see that the #47 is listed at 22,000 BTU’s, the #46 is 23k and some change, and the #45 is listed as a hair under 25,000 BTU’s. Can anyone verify the pressure setting on BS regulators?

Great research John, I came up with the same info when I was looking into it yesterday. Bluestars specs say their range operates off a 5" WC. Looking at the orifice charts though that would make no sense with the orifice sizes listed for the burners and known orifices. 7" WC would make more sense but that's not what their site says. My next point of research was to find what pressure my house gas line was set to.

john and catinthehat:

The Bluestar spec for 5" wc natural gas refers to the pressure in the valve manifold, just before the orifices. The line pressure going into the range from the house must be between 6" and 12" wc. These are the operating limits of the range's internal pressure regulator that supplies the manifold/orifices with 5" wc. It is described in detail on page 10 of the installation manual:

https://www.bluestarcooking.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/FreeStanding-Range-Installation-Manual.3-2017.pdf

Here is a Prizer (Bluestar) orifice table dated 2006, before the 25K Platinum range burners existed:

good info! well then, based on this pressure information (5" WC), the 25k burner doesn't put out 25k with a #45 orifice, unless i'm not understanding something correctly regarding orifice sizes, which i don't think i am. it would appear that BS would have to upsize the orifice to 3/32" to make 23875 BTU's at 4". this would be a very aggressive modification of which the venturi tube may not be able to supply enough air. i would stay on the "safe" side of the equation and go no larger than a #45, even if the 5" WC would not produce a full 25k BTU's. the bottom line question that needs to be asked is, "....how many BTU's do you really need?..." for me, anything north of 20k is plenty. disclaimer and advice: no one should interpret this thread as anything other than a discussion. modification of any gas range or component poses inherent risks, the result of which could mean serious injury or death to you or others, and/or result in serious damage to your property. do not modify your range components. only use a qualified contractor or manufacturer to modify your gas range. so, maybe purchasing the RNB range is the best choice after all.

"So, maybe purchasing the RNB range is the best choice after all."

Except for some unknown reason the RNB is only 22k, not 25k. You have to give up a better (though still not as even as Wolf) griddle and oven to get 25k on the Platinum.

There is a rumor that Wolf are soon to offer a range with star shaped open burners including one that is 25k+. One question is if the grates will allow a wok to rest down on it like BS. Given the better griddle and ovens on the Wolf this would be an easy decision.

Exactly. It is extremely simple to build a high output burner. I'm wondering if the issues come when it's time to get UL certification. When my remodel is complete I'll be running some experiments with the 25k burners I acquired to find a best match orifice with highest output

choices, choices, choices. wolf is going to throw down in the burner wars? they actually have a good range. i looked at them, but have narrowed the top two makers down to capital and bluestar. might just have to press the "easy button" and go with the capital MCOR range. 25k burners all the way around, and those will simmer at 145˚. BUT...$1k higher than the RCS. choices, choices, choices....

You really don't need more than one 25K burner. You just won't use it. The 22K's are really robust and do just about everything you need. I wouldn't pay an extra $1,000 just to get extra burners. At least, that has been my experience.

i think my perfect situation is to have the front left burner at 25k for wok'ing, then 4 x 22k's, and a 9k simmer burner. now, i just have to find some burner heads.

Where did you find them?

Also, please keep us posted about your progress.

Send me a personal message. I might be interested in taking one or two for experimenting. Also, it would be good as a backup. I had to do a bit of surgery to my old heads, because the igniter screw had badly corroded after eight years and couldn't be removed. It's working fine now, but having a fallback option wouldn't hurt.

John and M, I have the 25k burner heads up front on all 4 of my front burners. I did a good deal of experimenting and settled on a 44 orifice, which nets about 27 to 28k btu. The flame at 43 is inconsistent, and honestly 44 is incredibly high output as it stands. My hood is mounted 35 inches above my grates and I wouldn’t dare go lower with this setup. Despite being an open burner, the flames shoot over the top of a 12 inch carbon steel skillet. You really need a 14 inch pan/wok or larger to take full advantage of the heat. I am extremely happy with what I can do in the kitchen after waiting 10 years for this build. The sear I can get on Chilean sea bass is unreal.

That sounds amazing. And yes, that's exactly the use case that we have. Our hood is mounted above head level. There is clear space for the heat all around. And I really only plan on converting a single burner head, as I want it for our 14 inch wok.

So, I guess, I now need to keep my fingers crossed that John is going to give up at least one of his burner heads :-)

catinthehat

I'm glad you're finally settled in and using your equipment. I'm not ready for the remodel but constantly reading everything about the Bluestar range top. When we remodel I want to be clear with what I want and just order it. I'm leaning towards the Plantinum but with that I wonder how annoying is it to have burners that vary so much in their output. One 25K, 2 - 22K and one 15K plus the simmer burner.

Homepro1 says you don't need more than 22K. Does one really need this wimpy simmer burner? You're amping up the BTUs on all front burners.

My Russel Range is rated at 15K but I can and did adjust the burners so they will do a low simmer and still produce 15K on high..

Is there anyway to have high BTU output burners on the Bluestar that can be adjusted to lower settings?

Thanks

Inga

You won't use the 25K and 22K at full capacity often. I wouldn't worry about the array of burners. The wimpy simmer burner is plenty powerful. To adjust lower, you simply turn the knob down to where you want. It's not an all or nothing type of use. The simmer is quite nice, but I still use a diffuser to have maximum control. It's an old habit and it works for me.

The standard setup is well designed. I wouldn't spend any time trying to improve it. Just order it the way it normally comes. Get the Platinum and enjoy it.

Thanks homechef59 my "thank you" button has disappeared Again

Inga

ifoco - I have a 30" Platinum so I only have 4 burners and they are definitely sufficient for whatever we're preparing. In my previous home I had a Dacor with 6 15K burners and we had no problems switching to our BlueStar. We downsized when we moved so the 4 burners are fine for us and I use the front two burners most of the time. The 25 K is my first choice when I boil water for tea or pasta. DH uses it for his wok or for searing steaks. One of the features that I really like is that even the higher BTU burners can be turned down - not quite to a simmer but they have a fairly wide range.

Hi ifoco,

I use my 25k burners on their highest setting 7 days per week. Mine have been tweaked to 27k and I find use for it in most every meal I cook, if only to get the pan up to temperature faster. Others are right you don’t “need” 25k, but when you have it you will use it. All my 25k burners simmer so well I have not used the simmer burner since the range has been installed. I like the 25k burners so much, to be perfectly honest I only use the back burners to move pots around on or keep items that need to simmer for longer periods (rice, beans, soup stocks, etc).

I hope your remodel goes smoothly, mine took a year but with the bluestar it was worth the wait =)

Hi catinthehat,

Lovely kitchen I'm envious! Ours isn't started yet.

One thing I'd like to ask Bluestar owners. My Russell Range 6 open burners have worked OK (nothing like your 25K burners I'm sure). My problem was the configuration of the back burners and my tile installation. I had a tile "frame" at the back where the tile mural was inset. That frame stuck out quite a bit and actually impeded the air flow to and from the burners at the rear leaving black sooty marks.

I tried sorting thru pictures to show the problem but not able to locate it. Had the blue screen of death some months back and lost a lot.

There wasn't adequate room to have a large pot on the back burners.

How does the Bluestar work. Is it a tight fit at the rear as well.

Thanks

Inga

In a "normal" installation, there is a raised back vent behind the rear burners. It prevents damage to your backsplash. It also means that really large pots (e.g. a 14" wok) wouldn't fit on the rear burners.

In practice, I find this limitation is rarely if ever reached. I don't really need to have four oversized pots in use at the same time. In day-to-day operation, the four-burner 30" Bluestar feels quite spacious to me. I don't recall the last time I had to reshuffle pots because they interfered with each other or with the vent. But I am sure that can happen.

If you have extra-deep counters (highly recommended, BTW!), or if you install your range in an island (not recommended), then you can change out the rear vent. I don't believe, Bluestar has a flush-mounted vent. But it does have a vent that only raises about 1" above the burner grates. This would be sufficient to place a wok on the rear burners. Why you would want to do that is beyond me, though. Wok cooking makes much more sense in the front.

I agree with @catinthehat, and we rarely use the rear burners. All "active" cooking happens on the front burners. And the rear burners only get used for keeping things warm temporarily or for slow-cooking a stew while using the front burners for something else. But in practice, both things are better done by placing the pot into one of my ovens.

Before the remodel, I only had the oven in the Bluestar range. That occasionally turned out to be a limiting factor; and that's when the rear burners were needed. And yes, that's when I learned that I can't have two very large pots back-to-back, but I can have them side-to-side.

That's why in the remodel, we added two additional oven cavities; a combination steam oven and a speed oven. I anticipate that the rear burners will now go completely unused.

M

It sounds like you have the perfect set up. I've never had double ovens just one wall oven and the advantium to fill in the gap for second oven. I plan on getting a range top even though the blue star oven would be sweet to have. Can't do the bending lifting heavy pans out of oven after back surgery. Have had wall ovens for the last 25+ years.

While I have plenty of space in this kitchen and could fit in anything, at this point in my life I plan on sticking to wall oven, range top and advantium. At Holidays, the back burners do get pressed into action. Rest of the time I agree with you, they're just there to shift pans around. The only thing I dislike about all of the cooking on the front burners (which I do in the Florida house and the Utah house) the grease splatters on the floor. It's just a little annoyance and cleans up relatively quickly.

On the other hand, we haven't started the remodel and everything is open. Women are allowed to change their minds:)) I think of all of the wonderful products out there. This will clearly be my last hurrah! Something to think about.

Inga

Oh, yes, wall ovens are great. Much more accessible.

Our SpeedOven is similar to your Advantium. So, we have that covered. The unique new type of oven that we got with this remodel is a combination steam oven. It's an amazingly fun new toy. So many dishes that are much easier or better to prepare with it. If you haven't yet considered it for your remodel, I'd encourage you to look into it. It has a minor learning curve; but if you are willing to learn new tricks, you'll be rewarded quite nicely.

When we started the discussion about our new kitchen, my plan was to have two ovens. The three ovens that we now have were a bit of a surprise. I think, if we didn't already own the Bluestar range from before the remodel, I would have been tempted to get a rangetop. Two 24" ovens are good enough for 90% of what we need. The extra 30" oven in the range is a rarely needed luxury item (although, when I do need it, then I really do).

As for grease splatter, a good vent hood helps a little bit. But much more importantly, high-walled pots help a lot. That's why I do most of our frying in the 14" wok. It keeps splatter to a managable minimum.

I know the steam ovens get lots of raves from people here. I think about it but not seriously. I remember reading a review on I think a Miele plumbed version and the grief it was causing (descaling and other annoying stuff that wasn't working properly) I have minimal tolerance for "grief" at this point in my life. Fooling with the Miele coffee system is enough to put me into a so so mood.:)) I've never seen one in action or tasted food prepared in one. I might change my mind. Definitely something to think about. May head over to Ferguson one of these days, they must have one on the floor if not live.

Inga

I suspect your closest Miele Experience Center would be in Scottsdale. That's most likely a bit of a drive :-( It would be a great way to get some hands-on time with a CSO. The Miele cooking classes are a lot of fun.

Can't really comment on "grief". So far, our CSO has been about as difficult to use as a microwave oven. No complicated maintenance or hand-holding required. Having the plumbed model certainly helps. And having super soft water can't really hurt either.

Has the orifice size question for the 25K burner been resolved? Is it 45,46,or 47, or even 44!? I'm only interested upgrading one burner on my RCS. Parts not an issue. Thanks for any help on this.

M -- thanks for the detailed response here. Really useful information!

I have established from two different parts dealers that the orifice info for the Bluestar 25 K burner is as follows:

Bluestar part number (natural gas): BLS 709543

This would make it a #43 orifice.

I just did the modificatio on my 22k burner. I use #43 Orifice and drilled 8 holes on my burner head. open the air shudder all the way. the flame is nice and steady.

video: https://youtu.be/uAOJEnv1pY4

I have definately decided on a Bluestar (either 48 or 60" rangetop) for my new house. How configurable are the burners from the factory? I would like to get the left 4 burners front and back as 22K rather than the factory config. We have a herd of grand children and when we do pancakes or bacon, we cook a LOT at one time - one pair of burners for a griddle just wont cut it.

When ordering, is it possible to change the factory default burner configuration to what I want?

48" or 60" is huge. That requires careful kitchen design to make the space usable, and it makes venting extremely challenging and very expensive. I hope you are fully aware of that. That's going to be one crazy vent hood and a huge-ass make-up-air system.

As for burner configuration, I agree that pretty much the only time that it makes sense to buy such a large rangetop is when you add a griddle. But for a griddle you don't want 22kBTU burners. It takes a good while to preheat and even out the temperature, but then the griddle doesn't need all that much power to stay at the set temperature. I suggest you get the RNB and not the Platinum. That way you can have a thermostatically-controlled griddle. And in your case, you'd probably pick a 24" model. That would give you a combined 30kBTU for the entire griddle surface, which sounds about appropriate and functional.

That still leaves you with 36" inches of burners for regular cooking. That's plenty for pretty much all needs. And if it isn't, you can use the griddle as another "French Top" burner (yes, I know, it's not the same; but you get the idea). With a thermostatic control, it'll be great for simmering.

You really don't want the 22kBTU burners in the back. This amount of power is useful for high-heat frying and wok cooking. It is something that you can't leave unattended. You need it on the front, so that you can quickly reach for it. The back is fine at 15kBTU, or if you absolutely wanted to you could upgrade to 18kBTU. It'll not make much of a practical difference either way. With the griddle installed, I could see getting rid of the simmer burner. Even the 22kBTU burners have great simmer capability if properly adjusted at time of installation. They don't go down quite as much as the simmer burner, but I never missed the dedicated simmer burner, which we replaced with another 15kBTU burner.

Also, I could see replacing the front 15kBTU burner with another 22kBTU. Not so much because you really need that power, but because it is nice if the power output is symmetric. Make cooking with multiple chefs easier.

I don't know which configurations Bluestar allows you do order these days. Their website isn't particularly helpful. But a good dealer would be able to either navigate that issue or change burner heads and orifices at time of installation. And, to be honest, I think their default configuration for the 60" rangetop with 24" griddle is actually really well-designed. I don't think you'd regret ordering it as is.

@superman322 nice job! It is great to see another person taking the leap of faith and drilling the bluestar burner!

If you still want to get more power out of it, you can make 16 holes in that ring instead of 8 like what I did to my 15K burner. It gives a nice center flame. Just dont do a double row like my initial trial, that just doesnt work well cause the jet speed in the center becomes too high.

is this Upgrade doable on current ranges? I'm considering the RCS but I need a higher btu burner.

@stars26 I have a second thread showing what I did to the 15K burner on the RCS

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5875564/bluestar-burner-diy-project-looking-for-advice-before-doing#n=14

We need to up grade too. It took 18+ minutes to boil 6qts of water on our RCS. Totally unacceptable! Bluestar thinks thats ok. Need to increse at least two burners.

I'm reviving this thread, because some of these questions have come up for me while researching Bluesta; I've found trustworthy sources for the answers.

Here are Bluestar's specified orifice sizes, taken directly from the current parts manual downloadable from their site:

15K BTU/hr =#51 orifice

18K BTU/hr = #48 orifice

22K BTU/hr = #47 orifice

25K BTU/hr = #43 orifice

Bluestar specifies 5" water column pressure at sea level for natural gas. This is the manifold pressure set at the regulator in the range. Propane or altitudes above 2000 meters will change the recommended orifices and pressure settings.

The orifice numbers in bold above are different from the sizes specified in standard engineering charts. For the 22k orifice Bluestar recommends 1 size smaller than the chart; for 18k and 25K they recommend 1 size larger.

An engineering source I consulted says that the manufacturer's spec is probably more trustworthy than the generic charts; venturi design can slightly increase or decrease flow relative to the theoretical value. There's a complex fluid dynamics relationship between the gas jet from the orifice and the venturi shape.

Nevertheless, these open burner designs are usually flexible and can work well with a range of orifice sizes. There's little harm experimenting with a slightly larger orifice. As long as the flame doesn't lift, and you can open the air shutter enough for clean combustion, and you can adjust the simmer low enough for your preference, it should be fine.

To find the best orifice for your installation (and preferences) you may have to experiment.

*****

On an unrelated note, I see a lot of comments like "you'll almost never use 22k btu." Please keep in mind that most restaurant ranges don't have a single burner this small. Garland (the commercial company that originalted Bluestar, and which still owns the pattents on the star burner design) has a low-end range with all 24k btu burners. Their higher end lines have all 33K or 35k btu burners, with an option for 40k on a 4-top. Pros do all their cooking all day long on these powerful burners. When you have good technique, and you value being able to preheat a pan in seconds rather than minutes, a powerful burner is addictive.

One caveat is that if a restaurant has a separate station for the saucier, that person might have a range with burners that emphasize control, and ability to use small pans. They may also have a lower-powered hood, so they can have the simmer adjusted lower without fear of the ventilation blowing it out. But even there, 22k and 25k btu would not be considered high.

I'm considering trying a 22k burner with the next largest orifice (#46). This should theoretically give a little north of 23K btu, but keep the lowest simmer setting the same as as a regular 22k burner. The 25k burners lowest stable simmer will be 14% hotter.

Good post @Paul R.

To add a bit... Techniques like sauté, searing or pan frying and stir fry cannot be done effectively on lower btu burners. Sauté and searing realistically need about 35-40k to work properly. But below that every 1k helps.

"Techniques like sauté, searing or pan frying and stir fry cannot be done effectively on lower btu burners. Sauté and searing realistically need about 35-40k to work properly"

I'd agree that you can't stir fry to restaurant standards without a high-btu burner. Restaurant wok burners start at around 60k btu/hr and go up to at least double this. But I've been told by Chinese cooks that wok cooking originated on small wood fires, and the whole point was fuel conservation ... so it's possible that the wok-hei from a furiously hot wok has not always been the standard.

Sauté and searing? You can do it on relatively weak burners. I've cooked on commercial ranges with over 30k btu/hr, and I've lived with crappy ranges that are lucky to produce 10k.

You can get them to work with the right pans and the right technique. Meaning, I can make the food taste as good. But not as quickly, not as easily, not as enjoyably, not in the same quantities.

For me, Bluestar is all about the burners, and the burner about enjoying the process—using a piece of equipment that's designed to cook well, without the usual tedious workarounds.

Responding to @Paul R's technical discussion from last month. I have a question if you don't mind reading through this.

I just finished modifying my 36" platinum rangetop to five burners placing the 25K burner in the center.

I was able to do this without modifying a single thing on the unit itself. All modifications were to attached parts and I bought those new so it's a 10 minute retrofit to go back the the standard six burner configuration.

One of the modifications I had to make of course was to the venturi tube. I bought a long one with the crimp and a short one with no crimp to cut them up to get them to the correct length. I seemed to get a better flame with the one with no crimp so I that's the one I used.

Before I did the trial and error approach I tried to find engineering information that might guide what I did rather than just trial and error. So I have a couple questions I'm hoping you (or someone else) might be able to shed some light on. I gather you're not an engineer either but clearly you have that mindset.

Even though the setup works beautifully I sure would like to know why the crimp is important on the rear burners but not the front. I made some small adjustments to the air openings with the rotating collar but I sure wish I understood how that air/fuel ratio works and affects the flame. So if anyone has any knowledge or thoughts on that I'd like to hear.

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the differences between these venturi tubes. I'll be curious to know what you discover. That's a part I've assumed is best to leave alone ... short ones for the front, long ones for the rear. But I've never thought about a mod like yours.

I wouldn't let it scare you away because there seems to be a ton of lattitude especially with an oriface change but I had no need to do that. Hopefully someone will see this discussion and enlighten us.