I ordered seedlings for next year from Musser forests. No minimum (I don't think) but you want to order about 50 to get good pricing (about 50 cents each). Don't know on quality yet, they should be here at the end of the month.

For graft ready, look at the University of Idaho.

The superstock conifers are ready-to-graft (plugs not bare-root). Minimum purchase is only 5, and they run $2.50. Certainly not cheap (much cheaper than western evergreen though, and you never know when he's going to get around to shipping them), but great for last minute grafting. And they ship immediately. Shipping price not bad either.

Happy grafting!

@garcanad - I checked out there website, didn't see anything about US Shipping. That would be very unusual, because there are all kinds of regulations on anything other than seed, when traveling internationally... I would have thought it is too cost prohibitive.

@coniferbros - I ordered from Musser in the past. Their price on potted plants was really great, and I was able to get 25 Picea abies last minute for grafting, but the quality was not good. They were unbelievably rootbound, it made it difficult to even properly water them, but I did get a good number of takes, even with doing root surgery on them in the spring... so it was better than nothing, but wouldn't order from them again. Hopefully their bare root quality is better.

How much grafting do you do, and what is your setup in Z5?

sc77, on their main page, there is a statement: 'Our facilities are located in Ontario, Canada, shipping across North America and Internationally'. Not sure of the complication of shipping to the US, but shipping from the US to Canada has been relaxed and simplified significantly compared with many years ago. I do ship various types of plants from the US occasionally without any need to pre-apply for any import permits now. Shipping cost can be a concern.

sc77: Unfortunate on the potted plants. We'll see how the bare roots are.

This was only my second season of grafting. Just hobby grafting in the basement.

First year I just had two clear plastic totes to hold the plants, then a clear plastic bag over top. Fluorescent shop lamps for lighting.

This year I've got a tent and grow lamp setup. Wooden frame with clear plastic sheeting about 4'x4'. Bought a 1500W LED grow light that seems to do a good job of penetrating through the foliage and onto the scions. Time will tell how the setup worked out. Went a little overboard this year; ended up doing over 100 grafts.

I keep them in the basement until temps warm up; bring them out on warmer days. Eventually they get planted in a shady "nursing home" in the ground, to be transplanted after a few years.

What is your grafting setup? Any tips or things you've learned?

This is my 4th season grafting, I've posted my results from the prior 3 seasons [Here[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/season-3-grafting-conifer-results-dsvw-vd~4605112) if you haven't already seen it. In my Rookie season post, I also linked so some valuable information from some of the very experienced grafters that used to hang around here. My setup is similar, the chamber is closer to 3.5 x 3ft, but framed with wood and then wrapped in poly. I used plastic dip on all the wood to prevent mold and keep the moisture out and added a door for easy venting. On the inside I used pvc to build a stand and then some plastic coated metal grated shelving, with a larger plastic bin under to catch excess water, but I also fill it with water, and use fish pumps to push more moister.

I had been in a south facing sunroom for the first 3 years, but found it was too hard to control the temperature after January, even if the room was cold, the sun was making the greenhouse dangerously hot. I probably lost a good amount of grafts in those first couple years to the heat. I didn't realize it was getting that hot. The basement is better, consistently ~60. I use 2ft T5 lights, but plan to add some blue/red LED's next year.

Other than that... use an extremely sharp knife, don't worry about wrapping too tight, I bind elastics very tight to ensure a good connection and it's never caused a graft to fail... also helps make up for less than stellar cuts. Soft Pine & Fir is much easier to graft than Spruce. Humidity during the 2 weeks after grafting must be kept basically as high as possible... 99% on a meter.

This year I confirmed that % takes goes way down when you collect scions in really cold weather. I think the advice not to collect below 28* F is accurate, because the outside temp has to drop a bit past freezing before the tree starts pushing water out of it's cells, which leaves the branches dehydrated. Also, I noticed even the scions that did take, took at least 2 weeks longer than they should have to start pushing, which is another side effect of the very cold... they take longer to knit, further adding to the stress and lack of water...

Thanks for all of the information. I'll have to go through your previous posts when I have more time.

I might not have my humidity high enough. I don't have a supplemental source like a water tub or humidifier.

I've been using scalpels (I believe dax recommended that at some point in time). They seem very sharp, sterile, and easy to use. I found a utility knife to be kind of bulky. My cuts aren't always perfect, so I do tend to wrap the bands pretty tight to force the cuts together like you explained.

Sorry if I took this thread off topic lol

ha, na it's fine... typically grafting related posts don't even generate a reply on these forums anymore... everyone went to facebook... but I'm not a fan, because there are no discussions/how to's like these forums used have... it's all pictures. Also, I always go back to reference posts by Dax and others, which isn't really possible on facebook.

I switched to a scalpel one year, because it's hard to get the knife super sharp, but I didn't feel like I could get a good grip when trying to press on the back of the blade to make the cuts, so even though it was perfectly sharp, I found my cuts to be uneven, and went back to the knife... kept practicing my sharpening skills with the whetstone, so its not perfect, but pretty sharp now.

If you look back, Dax actually used a real humidifier connected via PVC pipe, that certainly works, but it's gotta be on a timer, because it will generate so much mist the walls and ceiling of the chamber will actually start dripping water down onto your grafts (not good)... I copied Maple_Groves's setup with the homemade ultrasonic mister. I can run that all the time, with the water reservoir at the bottom going as well, and it will cause water drops on the sides, but very rarely on the top, which is good, because I don't want to open the chamber at all during the 2 weeks after grafting, if possible.

I follow planet conifer on facebook, and it's ok...good pictures. But I greatly prefer gardenweb for the reasons you stated. It's just too bad everyone left. Also too bad that most of the pictures from the past have disappeared either due to houzz or photobucket hosting.

I did buy a reasonably priced knife, but need to perfect the sharpening. I couldn't get it sharp enough to cut hairs, so I didn't attempt to use it for grafting. Need to pick up some better stones and learn how to sharpen the knife properly.

I might have to consider a humidifier of some type next season depending on my takes this year. However, the walls do have moisture (not dripping), so maybe i'm ok.

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I was searching through grafting posts and this one seemed like the most current one. First of all, I greatly respect the work you guys have done and just your contributions with this topic and other topics regarding pictures. So thank you for that!

coniferbros - Are you using a similar humidity chamber like sc77?

For both of you, have you guys done deciduous plants like Acer Palmatum? I assume you don't have to go through the same humidity steps with conifers, but was curious what different or additional steps that you guys have taken.

Sorry about posting about JM's in a confier thread.

Regarding sharpening, while hand sharpening on a whestone is a skill, there are other products in the $40-60 that greatly help sharpness. Years ago I bought a Spyderco Sharpmaker. Look it up because it is great and in 10-15 minutes I can get a screaming sharp blade as it does not require my hand to control the angle of the blade as much as a knife on a whetstone. I highly recommend. Also there are several other sharpening systems that are out there that would pay for having someone do your sharpening 3-4 times. They are in the $100-200 that we can talk about if you desire.

After reading your posts, I am contemplating grafting this coming winter. Part of the problem is we need to figure out a scion swap to start passing around some plant material.

Cheers and thanks in advance.

MattW (Columbus,OH)

[HERE [(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/grafting-with-tina-dsvw-vd~1648826)is a previous thread about grafting.

Hey Matt. I have only grafted 2 seasons, so i'm a still a newbie. Conifers will require a humidity chamber of some sort. I used a plastic enclosure this last season. You can bag them as well.

I highly recommend purchasing Bob Fincham's DVD on Grafting Methods. I will warn you that it's outdated (filmed in 1990) and low quality, but very informative and useful. I have watched it several times. I have relied on that and old grafting threads from here (especially from Dax).

I have not attempted any deciduous grafts, mostly because i'm a diehard conifer guy lol.

Many of my plants aren't sized up enough to harvest scion wood, but I would be interested in a scion swap. You might want to start small scale and get the hang of it first though with some local plants.

I was meaning to post this earlier, but better late than never I guess...I would NOT order from Musser Forests. I didn't get your disapproval of them in time Shawn. I have been able to keep most of the Picea abies alive, but the doug firs, white pines, and scots pines didn't make it. Many of them came dried out, very poor root systems, many severely oversized. The dougs had moldy-like needles. Needless to say, U of Idaho is going to be my go to source.

Here are the University of Idaho superstocks, before and after preparation (I transferred them to rootmaker pots). Roots very healthy and well-branched.

This was my order from Musser. The Picea abies are out of the box. They seem to be doing fine. The ones on the left are Pseudotsuga menziesii, you can see the angry needles. And then the oversized ones. Most of these also lacked fine roots, maybe that is typical with bare root.

-Ryan

the quality was not good. They were unbelievably root-bound

Whether or not material offered - by any source - is root-bound is the first thing I would check for. Grafted conifers and deciduous trees presented at retail outlets here are quite apparently and routinely on severely deformed stocks. This includes ones coming from particular wholesale production operations that brag in their promotional literature about their methods and their quality.

When a finished specimen is stuck on roots that were distorted by bands or other small containers at that early stage of development there is not a lot that can be done about this later, as the misdirected root shapes are so tight. Woody material sitting on compact root knots may grow for many years, only to topple or become girdled later - resulting in the loss of the results of all those years of top development.

I don't graft deciduous, but it's pretty much the same without the need for humidity, and not sure if wax is still the preferred approach or not..

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/grafting-conifers-and-deciduous-dsvw-vd~1830594

As far as root bound understock... My main goal early on was just getting my scions attached successfully to anything...even if they fail in 10 years...just basically a holding spot/insurance plan for brooms I've collected...you never know when the original broom will die or disappear...plus, it's a lot easier to collect future scions from my yard, rather than having to go back to the original brooms!

Now I have good understock that I've grown from small seedlings, so nothing being used now is root bound