Sharon, (or someone else for that matter who has some good Kona black cotton) please PM me your address. I'd like to send a piece of this to to compare and see if we're talking apples and apples.

According to everything I've read there is not supposed to be any difference between Kona cottons no matter where you buy it.

I just checked the price for Kona black at Hancock's (I paid $6.29 after 30% off) and found this:
http://www.hancocks-paducah.com/s.nl/sc.1/category./.f?search=Robert+Kaufman+Fabrics+Kona+Cotton+Solid+Black

bkay

Hi bkay!

How about PM'ing me your address and then I'll send you some black (and a few other colors) and that way you'll be able to compare and have some to make your blocks!? I have purchased Kona from local quilt shops, Hobby Lobby, and Joann Fabrics. If I order on line, I buy from MSQC:

https://www.missouriquiltco.com/shop/detail/6517/robert-kaufman/robert-kaufman-fabrics/kona-cotton-black-yardage

So far, I have not experienced any quality issues. I've checked out a few different lines of solid fabrics, but keep coming back to Kona because I like the selection of colors. I also like how the fabric softens when washed.

As far as the lotto, Kona black is used very minimally this year - I believe one fat quarter is all that is needed to complete three blocks for each of the three months that require Kona black:

Mar - one 7" square per block

May - one 2.5" square per block

Oct - one 2"x20" strip per block

As far as next year, I am open to excluding it entirely from the lotto if that works better for everyone. And, especially, if it means more folks might participate!

Jennifer

bkay, WOW! Didn't know JoAnns charged more than HOP for Kona. I actually haven't been to a JoAnns in years simply because it isn't close-by but I remember some really thin fabric there. I had to learn how to tell the difference. Once you get a 'feel' for how quality Kona feels, you'll be able to easily tell the difference when you come across it in various places. I think doing the BOM helps a person learn (a lot of things) and to hone piecing skills while enjoying the process. I think the reason I prefer buying solid Black Kona Cotton at HOP is because there has never been a difference in the color from year to year. I worked hard to get rid of any other black I had as they vary so much in color, so that I would only have Kona.

Well, actually, JoAnns black Kona was $8.00 per yard and not on sale. There may have been a coupon for regular priced merchandise, but I didn't have one. (I only needed 1 fat quarter and the Kona, and had already recycled my coupon). I bought the Kona Black at Hobby Lobby which lists it at $8.99, but they have a 30% off everyday thing, which they calculated as $6.29.

Thanks Jennifer, I PM'd you my address. Thanks.

bkay

I don't remember where I read about this issue, but in a nutshell, here it is. There are fabrics that are sometimes sold at the big retailers that are billed as "Kona" cottons. They are not the same fabric as the true "Robert Kaufman Kona" cottons. Supposedly, if your bolt says Robert Kaufman Kona, it will be the same quality everywhere. Something marked just "Kona" is not the same quality as the Robert Kaufman Kona.

Lois, I have heard that, too.

Lois, you beat me to the draw!

I do not remember if it was on this forum or one of the others I watch, but someone pointed out that “Robert Kaufman Kona®️” fabric is a trademarked good quality fabric made by the Robert Kaufman designers. A “Robert Kaufman Kona®️” fabric will have his name on the bolt.

The solid-colored fabric sold at JoAnn’s is labeled “Kona,” but it is not labled as a “Robert Kaufman Kona®️” fabric. It is made by a foreign-based company and is not made to the Robert Kaufman ®️ standards

I went to both JoAnn’s and Hobby Lobby (my only choices for this fabric for 200 miles). I tested the knock-off Kona fabric from JoAnn’s to the branded “Robert Kaufman Kona®️” from HL. The differences are so obvious.

This “Kona” company is getting away with the deception somehow because of international copyright laws - or the lack of them? JoAnn’s should be held accountable for their part in profiting by continuing the deception.

I have no problem with Lotto blocks using a specific black, red, blue...or any color.

If we need a “Kona” color fabric for continuity, we should each refer to it by the branded “Robert Kaufman Kona®️” name and be careful to check the bolts or order from a reputable dealer.

It is so sad we must be on constant guard from unscrupulous dealers, but it seems to be the times we live in.

Check out all the exciting solid “Robert Kaufman Kona®️” colors here! They also have a “where to buy” link at the bottom of the pages.

http://www.robertkaufman.com/

Kona is a registered trademark. No one other than Kaufman can use it for fabric (at least in the United States). Surely Joann's or Hobby Lobby would not risk the lawsuit and bad publicity for selling a "knockoff" product. As I understand it, that's a criminal offense. It would be the same as Macy's selling knockoff Coach handbags.

You may or may not like the fabric from the national craft retailers, but they are not "disreputable" dealers. They are selling a lower quality product, most of the time at a lower price. Walmart sells a lesser quality product, lets say a man's dress shirt, for a lesser price than Neiman Marcus would sell a man's dress shirt. That does not make Walmart unscrupulous. That does not make Neiman Marcus scrupulous. It makes them businesses serving a certain market segment.

I believe it's possible to get a "knockoff" product at your local corner store, or from a roadside vendor, or on Craig's list, letgo or maybe even Ebay (although Ebay polices the offerings closely). That JoAnn's or Hobby Lobby would sell a fabric labeled Kona that was not made by Kaufman is unthinkable. The cost of doing so is way too high. They would be in federal court with trademark infringement charges and the photos of the Feds burning the fabric would be on the evening news.

If there are two qualities of Kona cotton, it's because Kaufman is selling 2 qualities, but is denying it and has been doing so for years.

I just called my closest quilt store and they carry Kona solids (they have pepper and charcoal, but not black). I rarely use them because they specialize in modern fabric. I'll go tomorrow and see what quality is of their Kona cotton.

bkay

I found this reply from the Robert Kaufman company to a post on the Quilting Board site. It was in response to a question of why some so-called Kona fabrics are obviously inferior to others. They said they sell the same quality fabric to any retailer who sells the trademarked Robert Kaufman Kona fabric. I have seen so-called "Kona" fabrics at Jo-Ann's, but the bolts did not have the Robert Kaufman name on them, so I'm assuming they were not made by Robert Kaufman. They were a definitely lesser product. The fabrics sold at my LQS, always have the name Robert Kaufman on the bolt. I'm not a trademark attorney, so I can't comment on trademark laws and the use of the term "Kona." Here is the reply directly from Robert Kaufman:

"We hope you don’t find this to be an intrusion on your privacy, but we saw this discussion, and thought we could help clear up some confusion on several issues pertaining to our Kona® Cotton Solids brand.

What is presented here is an official response from Robert Kaufman Co., Inc., to be posted and hopefully correct the inaccuracies brought to our attention, as well as answer some of the questions you might have had.

To begin with, Kona® Cotton is a brand that has been around for almost three decades. In that time, the brand has become synonymous with quality in the fabric and textile world.

Kona® Cotton Construction
Kona® Cotton is based on a standard cotton sheeting construction of 20 x 20 (20 singles) yarns and 60 x 60 thread count. However, this standard construction doesn’t provide the weight or bulk that Kona® is known for. To achieve this, we add extra yarn for a custom construction, which creates a higher thread count and adds to the overall bulk of the finished product. Our Kona® Cotton will therefore weigh more than standard cotton sheeting.

Certification
All Kona® cotton is dyed using reactive dyes and is processed and tested according to Oeko-Tex® Standard 100, satisfying the requirements of its product class. Click here to learn more about this testing http://www.oeko-tex.com/OekoTex100_P...dex.asp?cls=02

Country of Origin
Country of origin does not reflect upon quality whatsoever. We seek the highest quality for our Kona® Cotton brand, using only FIRST QUALITY goods, regardless of country. All of the countries we deal with are capable of producing the highest quality that we demand for our Kona® Cotton brand.

Not to be confused with Kona Cotton, Kona Premium Muslin is a high thread count muslin exclusively produced in Pakistan. Kona Cotton Solids, on the other hand, have never been produced in Pakistan, and are currently being woven and dyed in Indonesia and Thailand at mills that are capable of achieving the Oeko-Tex Standard 100. While we have discontinued production in China and Korea, some bolts may still bare those Countries of Origin on the label.

Greige Goods and the Production Process
“Greige” (pronounced “grey”) or “Greige goods” are simply terms to refer to fabric in the raw state, before bleaching, dyeing or finishing processes.

First quality goods can have variations in look and weaving pattern due to the different types of weaving machines that are used in weaving the greige goods. This difference in weave look in no way suggests a lesser quality, but only a difference in weaving style.

The first step in the dyeing process is called lab dipping. Lab dipping entails dipping a small swatch of fabric in dye to match a specific color standard. Sometimes many dips are necessary before a color is approved. Once approved, a bulk dye formulation is made. Bulk dyeing is done in lots. Lot sizes can be 2000 yards or more. This lab dipping process uses “prepared for dye” greige of the same quality that will ultimately be used for bulk production.

Robert Kaufman uses the same quality greige and dyes for all customers purchasing Kona Cotton Solids - all customers receive the same product. We have never produced a lesser grade of Kona for any customer. All seconds are rejected prior to leaving the mill.

Here are some examples of defects that would result in rejected goods:
Excessive slubs, knots, zippers, mis-weaves, contamination, holes, and color shading.

Millions of yards of Kona Cotton are produced and shipped throughout the U.S. and internationally. We are always striving to maintain the highest level of quality and provide the best product. We therefore ask you to bring to our attention any Kona Cotton that you feel does not live up to your expectations. Please send in a 3” square swatch of the quality you feel does not meet Kona® standards. We will provide you with a detailed analysis report – the results of our testing process.

Please send your swatch to:
Robert Kaufman Co., Inc.
Attn: Quality Control (re: Kona test)
129 W. 132nd St.
Los Angeles, CA 90061

Robert Kaufman Certification Badge

"

I'm afraid I'm getting too far into some people's biases. It would probably be smart of me to sit down and shut up. However, the truth is the truth. Kona is a registered trademark for Robert Kaufman Cos. Los Angeles Ca. It covers "fabrics and textiles for use in the manufacture of clothing, clothing accessories, quilting and crafts".

Here is the trademark information: https://www.trademarkia.com/kona-74599172.html

"I have seen so-called "Kona" fabrics at Jo-Ann's, but the bolts did not
have the Robert Kaufman name on them, so I'm assuming they were not
made by Robert Kaufman. They were a definitely lesser product".

This is not possible. It can be a lesser product, but it is a Robert Kaufman product. JoAnn's cannot legally sell a product labled "kona" that they did not buy from Robert Kaufman. The penalties for doing this are so severe, that no company that has something to lose will do. JoAnn's cannot jeopardize their company to sell a few yards of product mislabeled as "Kona" that are not sold to them by Kaufman. That makes no sense at all.JoAnns is a 2.4 billion dollar company. Why would they sell a "knockoff "product? Hobby Lobby is a 4.3 billion dollar company. Put aside their "christian" ethics, but why would they jeopardize their company to cheat like that? If they did that, Kaufman would haul them into federal court immediately.

The best I can determine online tonight, Hobby Lobby is worth 4.3 billion dollars, JoAnn's is worth 2.4 billion dollars. Robert Kaufman is also a privately held company (as are Hobby Lobby and JoAnns), so its worth was not estimated online. The only number I found is 5.3 million, which seems a little low .

On second thought, if you believe that Hobby Lobby and JoAnn's are selling knockoff Kona faircs, there's nothing more I can say. Logic won't do any good. As Benjamin Franklin said, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.".

bkay

I picked up some Kona cotton at the quilt store yesterday. There is no way these fabrics from the LQS and Hobby Lobby are the same. They aren't even close.

I'll send a scrap to Kaufman and also to Hobby Lobby.

bkay

I have come to the conclusion that the term Kona applies to things other than fabric, including coffee. Just the word Kona on the end of a bolt of fabric, to me, is generic. Robert Kaufman Kona Cotton is the one I want and can trust to be the same shade.....every time. The thing is, if I want more of the same shade, I forget what it is, so I write it on the selvage at the end of my yardage.

Sharon, it really bugs me. Whatever is going on with Kaufman Kona Cotton is not right. Yes, and I know, "Who ever told you life was fair?"

Business is rarely fair. It seems like every year, businesses care less about their customers and what they think. However, they usually stay out of situations that make them look bad or could land them in court with big legal bills. I don't believe either JoAnns or Hobby Lobby would buy a product labeled Kona that they were aware was not Kona from Robert Kaufman.

Robert Kaufman owns that trademark for textiles, fashions and I forgot what else. There can be Kona coffee, Kona boats, Kona cabins, etc., but Robert Kaufman owns that trademark for fabric. There can be no other fabric named Kona. He would sue HL or JA's if they were selling a knock off product. That means either the distributor is cheating or Kaufman knows it's not a good product and he approved. At the same time, he's declaring that all Kona is the same product.

I should not be angry, but I am. (waste of energy) I wasted my time making the lottery squares that I can't use. I made a special trip to get the Kona Black. I wasted my money on not only the Kona, but also the batik fat quarters I bought. Then, I bought another 1/2 yard of Kona charcoal at the LQS to compare to what I had, and went back to JoAnn's to double check the label on the Kona black.

Grrrrr!

bkay

Dear BKay...

Big hugs to you. Deep breaths, and please send in your Pinwheel blocks, as they are. They will be beautiful!

Did the end of the bolt of fabric at JoAnn’s say these three words “Robert Kaufman Kona®️“ or were they simply labeled “Kona.” ? The later is a whole ‘nuther ball of wax.

On the Robert Kaufman site there is a list of places that sell his branded fabrics. I did not see JoAnn’s on the list.

I read...and I can’t find the site right now...that a foreign-based company makes their own brand named “Kona,” and while the name is similar it is not “Robert Kaufman Kona®️. They are not selling it as trademarked, registered “Robert Kaufman Kona®️.”

Again, big hugs, deep breaths, and could you post a picture of your blocks? Pleeeaasssee!”

You won’t believe the muck-up I made of my last two Pinwheels. It was all operator error, but I ended up with tiny, 3-inch light batik/black triangles and huge dark batik triangles.

I’m still scratching my head over them.

Chin up girl. This is fun; it will be fun...and look at all we’re learning - even at the expense of shouting out some of my favorite military-days’ language!

Caroline, he has a trademark on the word "Kona". No one else can use it on fabrics or clothing in the U.S. There are no if, ands or butts. He has the exclusive use of that word for fabrics sold in the United States. Period. End of sentence. They may be able to sell Kona cotton in Mexico that is not made and or controlled by Kaufman, but not in the U.S.

We have all these stories why there is Kona fabric out there that stinks. We blame everyone except Kaufman. He is the one with the control. No one else.

It's deceptive. It's misleading and it's "anything to make a buck". No scruples, no right or wrong, just make a buck.

I think it stinks. I will think twice about buying anything Kaufman ever again.

This is what it says:

"KONA Trademark Information

Robert Kaufman Co., Inc.

fabrics and textiles for use in the manufacture of clothing, clothing accessories, quilting and crafts

Perfect for these industries

• Fabrics

Words that describe this mark
fabrics textiles use manufacture clothing clothing accessories quilting crafts

This is a brand page for the KONA trademark by Robert Kaufman Co., Inc.
in Los Angeles, CA, 900590266.

Write a review about a product or service associated with this KONA trademark.
Or, contact the owner Robert Kaufman Co., Inc. of the KONA trademark by filing a request to communicate with
the Legal Correspondent for licensing, use, and/or questions related to the KONA trademark."

Bkay

I heard from Robert Kaufman Co. this afternoon. That fabric I bought is not Kona. They are following up to see what happened and how that got out there.

bkay

edited to add: The gentleman from Robert Kaufman Cos. did say that they sell to JoAnn's and to Hobby Lobby.