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debrak6

Rose ID help, please!

8 years ago

This rose is growing in Austin, TX and would have been carried by ARE some years back. I can't tell if it's a true climber as it is growing in part shade, and her Mutabilis and Cramoisi Superieur are also climbing tall into the huge crepe myrtles. Almost thornless, very fragrant, blooms droop a bit, two weeks ago in cooler weather the buds and blooms had pink edging on the outer petals. Now in warmer weather they look like this, but she says the older blooms do have some flushing to pinker as they age. I've been through everything I can think of and other roses on the ARE current list, but nothing seems to quite fit from the ones I know personally or can find online. When I first saw it I wondered if Mrs DC can act like a climber; the blooms did reminds of her, but I'm not sure this rose has enough red/purple new growth, and now the blooms look warmer, the pink edging is gone, and form is more globular than I've ever seen on the Mrs. Hoping the photo will trigger someone's ID-o-meter!


Comments (16)

  • 8 years ago

    This is an absolutely stunning plant. It looks huge! And those blooms! Wow. I hope someone I.D.s it for you. Could it be Madame Joseph Schwartz? I've only seen pictures of that rose, but the globular white blooms make me wonder.

    debrak6 thanked K S
  • 8 years ago

    You know, that's a big "hmmmm." At first I started to say no because I have Duchesse de Brabant and have see Madame JS, but....when I first saw the plant I did ask if it was D de B from the growth habit and leaves. Then when I saw the first blooms looking so much like Mrs Dudley Cross, I never went back and thought of Duchesse's white sport...mostly because I didn't realize it can have those pink edges and outer petals. But googling pages of photos of Madame JS...yes, that is a possibility.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    So interesting how different roses can look at different times and in different climes! I should be used to it by now, but it always amazes me. Jeri, that doesn't look much like our mystery beauty because the petals are crumpled and disorganized in that luscious way, but If I'd just seen this photo you posted I'd have been on a mission to find out what it was...beautiful.

  • 8 years ago

    We're all 99% certain that this is MJSchwartz, growing in a shady location in an old cemetery. I put it up here mostly for color comparison.


  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You say this is a climber, debrak? My first thought on seeing the photo was Madame Alfred Carriere. I have two myself and they are frequently pinkish (and sometimes downright pale salmon-apricot!) in the early season, very fragrant, shade tolerant, relatively thornless (or so it said in some description I read somewhere --- except that every blessed thorn it does have seems to be placed to nail, without fail, the hapless gardner who gets anywhere near to work on it...). It is also a variety Antique Rose Emporium sells.

  • 8 years ago

    http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.20446.1 It was sold by ARE some time back, quite a while ago. According to HMF it does climb, unlike some of its' siblings.

  • 8 years ago

    I agree, Comtesse, MAC's flowers not really or usually as "cuppy" as those in the photo

  • 8 years ago

    I appreciate everyone's suggestions! It's definitely not MAC, and after going back over there with clippings from Duchesse de Brabant, I'm 99.976% :-) certain it is MJ Schwartz. After reading more and seeing photos online of MJ Schwartz, and after seeing the blooms in person again....coloring, petals, stamens, leaves, canes, etc. and comparing it to the Duchesse in whole plant form...really it has to be. When I first saw it, with just buds, I did say "oh, is that D de B?" It's just a very recognizable plant and bloom form...no idea why it didn't occur to me in the first place except that I had for some reason thought MJ Schwartz was a boring white sport and it was acting like a climber (but then again..part shade and she's got a Mutabilis and Cramoisi Superier climbing higher than I had any idea they would.) Now I need MJ Schwartz, because it is absolutely gorgeous, and has much more delicious and variable color shadings than I knew!

  • 8 years ago

    KS, you called it and started me down the road of looking at the Madame! For some reason it just hadn't occurred to me but you spotted it.


  • 8 years ago

    I'm in Austin, Texas and if this rose is growing in here this beautiful with no diseases, I want this rose!

  • 8 years ago

    Waffas, it is growing in a backyard in Round Rock in part shade, it is completely healthy, and some canes are about 10-12 feet up into a crepe myrtle. As I mentioned, a couple of other roses that I never thought of as being able to "climb" are also doing so, probably due to the part shade. Like the Duchesse, it will also just make a nice shrub if grown in more sun and pruned, but I'm intrigued by it grown this way as the blooms which naturally nod are easier to see when it's tall. I had no idea MJ Schwartz was so beautiful with subtle color variations...smells delicious as well. ARE still had some a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

  • 8 years ago

    Debrak6, looks like MJ Schwartz is sold out at ARE. I have Duchesse and it does wonderfully and one of my best roses. I will look at Hill Country Water Gardens in Leander since they get a lot of antique roses from ARE, maybe they will have MJ Schwartz. I got Cramoisi Superieur the other weekend from Hill Country.

  • 8 years ago

    Love HCWG! Barton Springs Nursery and The Natural Gardener also get roses from ARE. Did you call ARE to see if it is only sold out online? Quite often they will have something that is sold out online (you may know this already.) It's a wonderful excuse for a nice drive and to see the roses blooming!


  • 8 years ago

    I live in Leander so the drive to South Austin I try to avoid. I have never been to ARE, trying to get some gardening neighbors together to make the trip. I hear its beautiful.