Software
Houzz Logo Print
zensojourner

Modify built-in frame faced 60 yo cabinet for corner sink install

8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

Pics:



The ancient stove was replaced not because it was ancient, but because the oven didn't work - and repairs had been attempted to that twice already. So it went.

The Formica countertop was improperly installed and there is a visible gap where you can see the top of the counter frame next to the fridge if you look. Also water got into the miter joint so you can imagine what that looks like. And some very very silly person thought that permanently mounting a wooden cutting board in the surface and surrounding it with the same ugly stripping they used around the sink was A Good Idea. That's hidden under the cutting board next to the fridge - former resident didn't like it either. (These pics were all taken before purchase).

You can see the chipping on the sink even in these photos. So that needs replaced anyway, and the whole countertop has to go also. No problems with any of that.

I hate the fact that there is a ginormous empty space in the corner - its not even a blind cabinet, both sides are closed off by the sides of the existing cabinetry. NO, I am not even considering replacing any of it, it's all fine other than having like an eighth inch of multi-coats of paint on it which I can strip and refinish without too much trouble, and needs some new hardware. OK, that's a bit hyperbolic, but there's a LOT of paint on these.

I could wish the drawers were deeper (front to back) but I'm not going to rebuild them. They all still slide perfectly on their hardwood hand-built slides. They're all still sturdy, except for the one in the smallest cabinet next to the stove, and that cabinet I am just replacing anyway to take up the gap created by putting a 30" stove in the spot that was built for a 36" stove.

The whole thing is encased in either 1/2" or 5/8" plywood, I forget which and am too lazy to go remeasure that where they cut a hole in the back for the plumbing, LOL!

If I put in a corner sink I would have to modify the cabinetry, which I HOPE will not be too awful. I will lose the lower cabinet space on the right and won't really lose anything on the corner where the sink sits currently because its already got plumbing in it anyway which renders it pretty useless to my thinking. That leaves me with about 25% of the current leftside undersink area to add to the 18" cabinet space (currently under the sink) on the right. If I've explained that well enough for you to picture ... But it will add a whole lot of countertop space, of which there is an insufficient amount. That corner is virtually useless as is, both top and bottom.

I do NOT want to buy new cabinetry, just frame it up to support the sink and make the outside look pretty (or at least not horrible). I'll put a "floor" inside so it can be used for storage all the way to the back - at least if you're young and flexible enough to get all the way down there. I will leave it open on the right side so you can get at it from either the front or that side. My issue is not with framing up the support but making it look not too horrible where the corner panel (and access door) needs to go in front.

Of course this will only get done if the plumbing can be made to work with it situated where it is, which is about 43" from the corner on that back wall. It's slab, so no chance to move the plumbing, at least not that *I* want to pay for. That's another reason to leave it open inside rather than side paneled inside with plywood (GOOD plywood compared to what's available today) as it is now. To give free run to the plumbing. There is no garbage disposal and I don't plan to add one. Yes I know vertical runs for a drain could lead to more clogging, but no garbage disposal and I've never had a clog the whole time I've been here. If the plumber says no even if there is no garbage disposal then I won't do it. But I don't want to bother to drag a plumber out here until I'm sure I can manage the cabinetry.

I'm talking the pentagon type of corner sink, not the type where you put in a funny-shaped sink that goes around the square corner. And actually while typing this up it occurred to me that there might be enough space to move the dishwasher in there at the right, losing, admittedly, the entire space that is currently the sink cabinet but at least the dishwasher would be permanently installed there rather than sitting across the room in the nook there forcing me to have to push it over to the sink and hook it up every time I want to use it (and yes, it can be permanently installed and is fairly newish, and I did go measure and there IS space for that, so another good reason to go ahead).

The doors are made of 2 layers of 1/2" plywood, with the outer layer beveled and the inner layer inset so it fits inside the cabinet openings. Uses the old timey roller type of closures, and what I consider to be "normal" hinges that lay flat to the surface instead of those giant Rube Goldbergey looking things that come on modern particle board/MDF cabinets. I like those and if they are all as in good shape as they appear, I'll keep them - once I've cleaned off the 8 layers of paint, LOL! If NOT in good shape I'll replace with something similar.

I have plenty of time and intend to do all of the cabinet work myself (but not the plumbing). I may or may not have to shorten that corner cabinet where it would hang out over the new sink area. It's virtually useless just now anyway, with such a tiny opening and the shelves are set way too close together (permanently mounted, not adjustable at all). Maybe the ones next to it as well. Doesn't bother me if so, there are more wall cabinets on the other side of the kitchen along an 8' wall (but no lower cabs) and I could also add to the bottoms of the cabinets along the long wall if I felt like it (but probably won't). May consider open shelving there.

I WILL be removing the tiny 15" base cabinet at the far right and replace that with a boughten drawer unit in at least an 18" width. That'll take up some of the slack from the smaller stove in the stove nook.

Stiles are 2" wide. The joints are almost certainly mortis and tenon. Won't know for sure until I strip all that paint off, and how much stripping I do ultimately rests with how much of this I end up keeping and how much I end up modifying. No reason to strip what is getting replaced.

These are not cabinets in the sense that we think of cabinets today, they are more like open shelving covered with a faceplate. Well actually that's EXACTLY what they are. The entire expanse of wall cabinets along the long wall is one big long open space inside, ditto the 8' of cabinets on the opposite wall. The corner wall cabinet is one unit, then the double cab next to it is a unit, and finally the cabs over the fridge is a unit.

The base cabinet is two units, one where the sink sits and the contiguous cabinet to the right of it, and then the other cabinet on the short wall next to the fridge is a single unit as built. And I'll be pulling off ALL that screen moulding or whatever it is. If I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO (eg there are such large gaps behind it there's no fixing them) I'll replace it with something more decorative. I think it was a cheap way to be decorative though - this house was originally base housing for Air Force brass.

Let me forestall any and all suggestions to rip out and replace with new cabinets. I'm not staying long enough for that to be worthwhile in any case, but frankly I LIKE the current cabinetry and it is WAY better quality than anything available (affordably) these days. The NEXT person can rip it out and replace it if they think it is "dated". I could not care less myself. This is a working class neighborhood full of 60 year old housing that was thrown up to house military personnel during the Korean war, there are a lot bigger problems in all of these houses than whether or not they have "dated" cabinetry. That doesn't stop anyone from buying them. It's the cheapest non-trash housing in the area, LOL! And the construction quality is really high. For one thing, they centrally located the heating units in these houses such that my level billing in this UNINSULATED house is $78 a month. The high today is 48F. In mid-April.

BTW the new stove is taller than the old so that it sits the correct distance above the countertop (the old one was too low IMO). The new countertop may end up being about 1/4" taller than the old. 3/4" plywood plus 1/4" hardiebacker plus waterproofing plus 5/16" tile is likely to be a bit taller than the old Formica, plus I'm pretty sure its not all that level. Leveling may raise it overall a bit, depending on which way I ultimately have to level, LOL! But I should be able to raise up the stove enough to compensate.

Mostly I don't know exactly how to add in the front panel at an angle that won't look ugly. Everything else I can figure out but that's a new technique for me. And I have limited power tools, but plenty of time, and don't mind doing a few things (like miter cuts) by hand for the little bit that this needs.

Wish my dad were still around. He would know EXACTLY how to do this, then he could tell me and I would just do it, LOL! He built in all sorts of stuff in our house when I was a kid, as well as totally redoing the subfloor, plumbing, electrical, and heating. Boy those old guys knew what they were about!

Comments (5)

  • 8 years ago

    You have given yourself quite a job, and not sure how it will work out, but I did have two pointers. Yes, today, most cabinets are separate boxes that are put into place and screwed together. It was not uncommon in the past, to simply build a frame in place, then add the doors and drawers as one or two large boxes. So if you want to add on, you just need to add a face frame to accommodate your new opening, and bevel each of the ends 45 degrees to match up to the existing face frame.

    If you want to make a corner sink, first you need to get the measurements for the sink and the size of the cutout for the sink, then scour craigslist or the neighborhood for cardboard boxes for a large TV or refrigerator . You will want a very large piece of cardboard to make a mock up of how you want to lay out the counter top - most likely the top will be straight on the side away from the fridge, and the side nearest the fridge, and angled on the area in between. By drawing it on a very large piece of cardboard, you should be able to figure out where the sink will fit in, and how far the angled part will be. Once you lay that out and are happy, that will show you where you need to locate the frame for the door that leads to the space under the sink - you will probably have to fabricate the door on your own, though there are companies that make cabinet doors to order. Again, once you lay out the countertop, and draw in a line an inch or two inside the edge, you will see how much room will be left on the side nearest the fridge. It you need to cut into the drawers , that would probably rule out the project as you have envisioned it.

    Pyewacket thanked barryv_gw
  • 8 years ago

    Leave the sink where it is. Get a smaller single bowl sink. Install the DW between the sink and stove. Move the refrigerator to the nook where the DW is now stored.

    Use the face frame, drawer & door sacrificed to make room for the dishwasher and use that to fill the space vacated by refrigerator. Frame any leftover space as open storage for cutting boards, cookies sheets, rolling pins, etc. Add a framed open storage shelf to the uppers where the refrigerator is.

    Forget about the lost storage space in the dead corner. It's best left dead.

    I would not put the sink in the corner because that angled cabinet would be in your face and the distance between the upper cabinets and the countertop looks a bit tight.

    This will gain you a lot of added counter space, you'll recoup the storage lost by moving the DW next to sink by adding storage in the space vacated by the refrigerator.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    @ci_lantro

    1) smaller sink - NO. Clearly you don't cook. Or at least you never do dishes. Plus, I have no idea why you even suggested that to start with. I don't NEED to put a smaller sink there because there is already plenty of room for a full size sink. A "smaller" sink that is still big enough to manage a few dishes isn't going to give me more than a few inches of extra countertop space at most. The ONLY reason to go to a smaller single bowl sink would be if there isn't enough space at the corner for an angle-mounted full size sink. But I'm 90% sure that there is, without cutting into the drawer unit next to the fridge there. I may have to cut into the stile about 1/4" though. I'll know better when I get the existing countertop off.

    1. Angled wall cabinet is not a problem as it can easily be cut down - or rather "up", perhaps. Remember this is actual wood, not the MDF crap that is all anybody can afford these days. As I said in the OP "I may or may not have to shorten that corner cabinet where it would hang out over the new sink area." I know, it was super long, but that cabinet is not an issue. I can do the same to the wall cabinets to the right there as well, if necessary. If it's a problem, it is easily fixed. In fact regardless of what else I do, I WILL be semi deconstructing that cabinet anyway to install a lazy susan as it is virtually useless as-is.

    3) CANNOT move the fridge as you say without losing ALL the upper cabinetry on the opposite side of the room. From the OP "The entire expanse of wall cabinets along the long wall is one big long open space inside, ditto the 8' of cabinets on the opposite wall." Plus, the fridge is WAY deeper than the dishwasher and would stick out too far there. I didn't post a pic of that but it is next to an exterior door and putting the fridge there would block the passage through there. That wasn't mentioned in the OP simply because the fact that there is a wall cabinet over there (single unit 8' long) precludes doing that already.

    4) putting a corner sink over the current "dead space" is an excellent use of that space. Since "under the sink" is already pretty much dead space. But if I WERE going to replace cabinetry there is no way I would leave that "dead space" dead, I'd at least put in a lazy suzan corner cabinet. "Dead space" should NEVER be left "dead". Unfortunately the kitchen backs onto the bathroom there (the toilet is on the opposite side of that wall) or I would have seriously considered cutting into that wall (NOT a supporting wall) from the back and gaining access to that space that way.

    Honestly I think those L corners are the best place to put a sink with the least wastage. Plus that space all the way back in the corner is already too hard to reach when looked at in the context of "working" counter space. Currently it just collects kitchen "driftwood" until I get fed up and clear it out again. But it is PERFECT for putting dishwashing accoutrements behind an angle-mounted sink, that you only need to get at briefly while doing dishes. In fact if this works out I'll be making a triangular dish draining "rack" to go there with a dish draining mat under it. PERFECT for doing dishes and not taking up otherwise usable working countertop space!

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    @barryv_gw - thanks.

    You said "So if you want to add on, you just need to add a face frame to
    accommodate your new opening, and bevel each of the ends 45 degrees to
    match up to the existing face frame."

    That is exactly what I dimly envisaged.

    I actually shouldn't have to make a new door. I can simply salvage the door from the existing 15" cabinet on the left side of the stove that I'm taking out anyway. It's maybe an inch narrower than if I made one to fit the largest possible opening size there. Close enough. It's a little short because there is a drawer above it, but since I envisage putting a "nook" in the front plate right under that edge anyway, still a good fit. A nook to hold things you want out of the way when NOT doing dishes, such as scrub brushes or clean dish clothes. Waterproofed and tiled. Because that space right under the lip of a sink is, again, pretty much wasted space, and those tilt-out "drawers" they put in a lot of modern MDF cabinetry are pretty much useless as well as quicklyquickly breaking down the MDF faceplates and pulling right out.

    Similarly, if I have to cut down that angled cabinet above the space (which I probably will have to do), I can just cut the door down and bevel the new edge and route out a lip on the inside. Actually, looking at it again, I probably really need to shorten the other cabinet next to the angled one as well, and I can do the same with those doors.

    Isn't real wood wonderful?

    Mostly I want the space to be more usable. I expect that somewhere not too far down the line, someone (such as the next owner, most likely) will go for glitter over function and pull ALL of it out, but in the meantime, maximizing function is my goal. Secondarily making it look better than it does right now. Who knows, if my cabinet painting skills are up to par, it might look SO good once its refurbed it might get a shot at another 20 years of life before someone succumbs to the siren call of "replace-dated-real-wood-cabinets-with-sawdust-and-glue-covered-with-plastic-modern-cabinetry-that-probably-won't-last-until-your-first-grader-graduates-from-high-school".

    Those cabinets and I are of an age. If I'm REALLY lucky, giving them a facelift will at least give them a shot at living at least as long as I figure I've got. 20 or, if I'm VERY lucky, maybe 30 years.

    I've got plenty of cardboard. Probably have some big enough already but if not, there is always duct tape.

  • 8 years ago

    You can accomplish nearly anything with cardboard, duct tape, and a little ingenuity.