Hi Carol

I had come back from a public garden where thousands of Austins are grown (including every Austin on your list), and from that list I’d say the standouts for fragrance are Gertrude Jekyll , Abe Darby and Golden Celebration.

I’ve heard from several people that you have to be patient with Gertrude, she won’t come into her own until after a few seasons and in the meantime her thorns are truly wicked. I guess I’ll never know since I shoveled mine.

Golden Celebration is all around excellent, super vigorous, among the largest blooms for an Austin, and very fragrant. My own GC planted last year:

I also want to mention that for me that most unique and wonderful (and also one of the strongest) fragrances of any Austin belong to Jude the Obscure and Evelyn

I have to say my bias is that I far prefer the fruity Austins over the myrrh scented. Abe, GC, Jude and Evelyn are all very fruity, while Gertrude is rosy.

Carol, I love Golden Celebration and Boscobel. Though I think Bosco may not have a strong enough scent for you, he is a an upright growing Austin with no floppy canes. I would recommend, if you have a choice, getting grafted plants, particularly GC, which can be a slow starter even when grafted. However, slow but steady wins the race, and he does get large eventually. I think Abe Darby would be fabulous, own root or grafted, but his canes start out floppy, which you might not like. Do you want another Munstead Wood? Make sure it's grafted. PAOK can be a monster, and the canes extremely long--I just can't see that one in a pot, but you say yours is wimpy. I'm surprised. As you know, I got rid of mine. I just couldn't stand the thuggishness and the coral blooms in the heat of summer. I don't think that will be a problem for you, though. Diane

You've seen these pics before, but they are the two pals, Mutt and Jeff. Bosco is already taller, though.

Hi Carol,

My CPM is in her second year and strongly fragrant. The canes are thin but upright so far. She's supposed to be a climber. Mine came from DA as 2-quart own root and arrived 85% dead. I was able to save her and she's now producing these lovely blooms. Not sure how CPM would do in your climate but she's getting morning sun and partial shade in the afternoon. I recall you like pink roses as do I but CPM is a pretty apricot and her foliage is a light bright green.

Ann

Diane, How tall is your Boscobel? I was expecting mine to stay under 4 ft lol. Is that a pipe dream? Its in the front border.

Carol, I am jealous that you have Austins at a nearby nursery! I am thrilled for you. How exciting! I would grab: Abe Darby, Golden Celebration, Boscobel (my current crush♡), PAoK.

LoS and Teasing Georgia do awesome here. They both get absolutely monsterous. They might stay smaller for you. I love both of them. CPM is also huge, blooms are getting better every year here. I truly think CPM would like more of a winter than I have, so she would probably be great for you.

Munstead Wood is awesome and very fragrant here. Mine is grafted on DH. It can get 8ft if I let it.

I like Gertrude Jekyll quite a bit. Mine is grafted (not sure on what -- probably Dr Huey) and has a nice, bushy habit. Her fragrance is outstanding. This is not a perfect rose, but I've resisted replacing her because her fragrance is just that good.

My Benjamin Britten was only planted this year, but in my conditions it only has a light fruity scent - it's a nice rose, but I wouldn't recommend it for fragrance. To compare, my Munstead Wood that is also first year has a much stronger fragrance.

Since you already have MW, here are a couple pics of BB, but my poor plants got hit hard by insects & a wet cold spring - basically, anything that managed to bloom is a survivor!

My potted BB that bloomed (I have another in the ground that lost all of it's buds to insects):

HalloBlondie...but if you look on member ratings...it says good+ for fragrance. :( I agree that Mary Rose is soooo gorgeous!!! Maybe I should get it regardless of fragrance. :)

BenT - I would get Abe in a heartbeat if it wasn't so floppy. When I had it, I had sticks in the pot to help support the canes and I was always cutting it back. I got frustrated with it. Also Evelyn is amazing!! Or it was the first year I had it...then it started growing backwards. But I think I'm going to transplant it into my 5-1-1 mixture. I think you're right about Golden Celebration...I'm probably going to get that one. :) Your roses are superb!!! Yes, I smelled Jude the Obscure when I had it (didn't know what I was doing)...incredible fragrance!!

Diane - darn about Boscobel. Yay about GC!!! Your roses are incredible!!! I can't imagine ever having anything like yours. Oh my!!! So are you saying that Abe's canes will eventually stay upright? Really? Then I may get it. All of your roses are divine...but my favs are the first one and the 3rd from the bottom!!! Swoon!!

Ann - your CPM looks wonderful!!! That's my worry...that it would try to be a climber and go all floppy. But yours is still upright. hmmmm.... Great job on saving your rose baby!! I certainly like the extremely fragrant part!!

Sultry - if I get Abe...do you (or anyone else) have ideas on how to help it stay upright?? I would love to get Abe!! I think I should listen to Diane...Boscobel would disappoint me with its fragrance...even though it is exceptionally beautiful!!! Drool!! I probably will get GC :) I think LOS and TG aren't very fragrant though. My wimpy MW stayed under a foot...I can't believe yours gets to 8 feet. I'm going to transplant my crappy MW to the 5-1-1 soil mixture...maybe it will improve.

K S - your GJ looks amazing with its bountiful blooms. I've never smelled GJ...maybe they'll have it in bloom at the nursery, and I'll be forced to put it into my cart. :)

Cydita - thanks for the pictures of your BB. Thanks for telling me about its lack of a fabulous scent.

Carol

What I do for floppy roses is gather those wire fence rolls into a small custom support around the rose. For the smaller roses and peonies, I use the rolls of 3' high green wire fencing cut into lengths that I can loop around the outside of the rose and hook back onto itself. That holds all the canes upright and any floppiness can be a mild fountain over the edges of the fencing. For taller roses, I use the 5' green wire fence rolls. You can also use tomato cages but I find these more attractive and easier to blend into the foliage of the roses (also cheap). You can also add this fencing at any point in a rose's growth cycle, but the tomato cages have to be put on when the rose is small.

Cynthia

Carol, since you've already grown Abe in a pot, you know he starts out floppy. But many Austins do, and I've found after the first year (or two), they don't seem to need the tying or propping up. The earliest, hardened canes form a sturdier framework for the later canes to use in staying upright better. Boscobel was upright from the beginning so he never required tying up. I use bamboo stakes and twistie from a reel to loosely tie roses up. The stakes show a little, but are less obtrusive than you might think. I even tie hibiscus up with this method, and stakes and twistie really disappear in those plants......and thank you so much for your nice comments. I hope soon you'll be primping those lovely roses you grow--especially Grande Dame. You are so patient. Diane

Sultry, Boscobel is growing out from a fairly hard pruning now, but I'd say he was between four and five feet tall by the end of last summer. I do think Carol could keep him a good size for one of her large pots, though. In your climate he'll grow taller than four feet, I'm sure.

Ben, your Golden Cel and Evelyn are beautiful. Your GC has such a perfect shape, and I see a really large shrub in your future.

Ann, CPM is a beauty--I'd love to grow her and your lovely bloom is a good reason why.

KS, I love all those luscious blooms on Gertrude. The color is wonderful.

Cyndita, your BB has some splendid blooms for its first year. I'm sorry your roses have had a rough spring. There's always something for us poor gardeners to contend with. Diane

I did a research earlier this year and came up with only 8 DAs hardy to zone 4. They are on a slip of paper in my wallet should I ever come across them this year. Three are on your list - Sophy's Rose, Abraham Darby and Mary Rose. I have had Abraham Darby and just replaced it this year, not because it failed but because of a three year fight with Dr. Huey rootstalk that was killing the original plant. The problem only became evident when I shovel pruned it and found the Dr. Huey wrapped around the main graft stem that was buried.

Gertrude Jekyll is quite upright in my garden, and I see that it is on the list of 19 "most fragrant roses" on the David Austin website, and on the slightly longer list of "strongly fragrant" in the catalog.

I had Mary Rose until a few years ago until I used the wrong kind of herbicide on a nearby thistle, an herbicide which travels thru the soil. . .woops! Mary was always sticking a cane or two sideways over my "weeder's footpath". Maybe its location was too shady and it was reaching toward the sun, dunno.

If anyone reading this doesn't already know: If you get thistles, work assiduously to eradicate them immediately. Their roots will colonize your garden! My best advice is to patrol daily and cut off emerging foliage immediately. The colony will eventually dissipate if never allowed to see the sun.

Cynthia - that sounds like a great idea. Do you have pictures??

Diane - so the canes eventually stiffen up? Truly? So we prop them up for a year or two, and then those canes harden more? Thanks, Diane...it's more like "what are you going to do?" :) than patience. LOL

lkayetwv - that's good info for my friend! I'll tell her....thanks! What do you think of the fragrance for those 3?

ellatiarella - do you like Gertrude Jekyll? Do you have any pictures? Thanks! Whoops...poor Mary Rose. :)

Carol

Hi Carol,

Here's a bush shot I took today of CPM. It's more upright than last year. It could be that if grown in a pot it will never get huge enough to need tons of support. Thomas a Becket is in the foreground and Lyda Rose is just starting to bloom in the rear. All three roses are shade tolerant and planted near a birch tree.

Diane - I think you'd really like this rose and you'd be one of the best people to grow it given your track record with Golden Celebration and Jude!

Carol - Here's some photo history on Charles Darwin which I just planted less than a year ago.

Bush shot from this morning.

Bloom close up. He's moderately fragrant and his fragrance is consistent no matter the weather. He also blooms well.

His color can varied a bit last year. I'll be interested to see if his variability continues in year two!

More photos of Mary Rose. I would give her a chance if she's likely to survive in your climate.

Gertrude Jekyll blooms well in spring, then sporadically thereafter. She's shade tolerant like Mary Rose, Charles Darwin and CPM.

I also have Benjamin Britten starting his second year. He's an orangey red color but looks more red in this picture. He's consistently fragrant which is nice. That's Tradescant in the background.

I have Gentle Hermione and some others on your list but don't have enough experience with them to say much yet.

Ann

For number 4, I think you mean The Generous Gardener...?

It's very fragrant, and a lovely rose.

Susan Williams-Ellis is a sport of The Mayflower. I grow The Mayflower and it has a strong sweet scent similar to a Damask rose.

Gertrude Jekyll also has wonderful sweet fragrance.

James Galway has a moderate sweet scent, beautiful blooms that are a mix of peach and pink shades. It can grow quite large.

Ann your roses are the kind of vivid color and richness of a display that I can only dream of here in zone 5. Just gorgeous photos.

Carol, here are two photos of the wire fences around plants before they leaf out. I couldn't find one of the low fence (probably more like 2' high) around roses, but here's one around a peony ready to get started growing again. It's hooked to a cattle panel type fence for the vegetables behind it. It outgrew the smaller circle so I got lazy and just added a larger circle around the rest of the plant.

This is a better shot of the taller 4-5' fence around the outside of Scepter'd Isle before it leafs out. You could easily put this around the outside of a pot if you like since the bottoms of these panels are flat rather than meant to be stuck in the ground.

And here's a shot of Scepter'd Isle blooming. The cage would be at the lower inch or so of this photo but for the life of me I can't see it. The green cages disappear pretty quickly into the rose leaves once they get growing.

Caramella is another one that really needs the supports of the larger cage and if you peer closely at the base of this photo you can make out the cage there. Somehow it's not what I notice about the rose though (smile).

I leave the cages up all year and lift them off to prune as needed in the spring, but you could easily unroll these and store them when you move the pots to your garage. I still find that roses like Scepter'd Isle would flop over without supports, but since it's because they're so heavy bloomers that I'll forgive them.

Cynthia

Thank you Cynthia! I'm lucky that my yard is sunny but not so blazing that the roses fade significantly.

Ann

Also - my Scepter'd Isle is not nearly as full as yours! Mine are flatter and not as many petaled. Maybe with a few more years it will get fuller.

Diane, thanks for the 411 on Boscobel's size. Looks like its gonna get bigger here than I thought :/

Carol, I have 2 Abe's, one old and one new. They aren't floppy at all. They are in full sun.

Ann - I set out to buy a Boscobel and Golden Celebration...and I came home with Crown Princess Margareta and Gertrude Jekyll! What in the world happened!!! LOL I love the look of your CPM....I'm hoping mine will be a good rose for me. Yours is delicious looking! Oh wow!!! I love how different the colors can be on Charles Darwin!!!! That's gorgeous!!! Yay!! I bought that one this spring. !! Wow - your Mary Rose is soooo pretty!!!! I almost bought it. Wow!!! Gertrude Jekyll is gorgeous!!! I'm not sure if I should have gotten it though...sporadic blooming...hmmmm. I don't know why I bought GJ!!! LOL Maybe the fragrance will make up for the lack of blooming. Your Scepter'd Isle (I love that name) looks wonderful! I can't wait to get mine from Hortico.

Krista - Oh darn...I think I should have gotten Generous Gardener. I went there thinking I knew what I wanted...and then I just threw that to the wind LOL

Cynthia - oh, that looks great! It's hard to believe that the little fences are so well hidden!! Great idea! Your Scepter'd Isle is soooo lovely...I'm so glad I have one coming.

Sultry - how is it that your Abes are not floppy??? Wow!

Well...so I got Crown Princess Margareta and Gertude Jekyll. Totally different than what I thought I would get. Hopefully they're good roses!

Carol

Carol - I hope CPM and GJ work out for you! They've both been very fragrant.

Ann

Hey Carol - great choices! You’ll love Gertrude Jekyll! She wins hands down for fragrance IMO and she should grow over 3 feet for you without a problem. She is a prickly beast but worth it. CPM has such a nice color - I love it, good scent, and has been very hardy for me. GJ will be more upright for you than CPM - she’ll need time to mature and build a structure.

Others on the list - in case you want to go back for seconds ;) - Gentle Hermione has a strong fragrance, is hardy, and quite upright. I hear some who do not like the fragrance but I really like it - a mix of rose and myrrh (my daughter thinks it smells like baby wipes). The Lady Gardener was new for me last year but has a great scent and is more upright and has the thickest stems of any of my DAs. Boscobel was also new last year, more upright, but very little scent - I’m hoping this improves with time. If the nursery had Jude the Obscure I would recommend him - fabulous fragrance and more upright habit.

Speaking of upright habit, since DAs are shrub roses they vary in how upright they are but none of mine act like a HT. I love the shrubby growth habit/nodding blooms (but not blooms in the dirt or those that do a 180 upon opening) but this is just as much of a preference as any other rose trait.

Ann - thanks, I hope so too! I've spent so much money on roses this spring...but it still feels like I haven't got the shining, sought after rose. Although I am really happy I got Chartreuse de Parme. :)

Dave - I can't wait to smell GJ's fragrance!!! Yay!!! How does yours repeat? Yes, I lopve the color of CPM....it's such a luxuriant color. :) I guess I'm glad I didn't get Boscobel...your comment that it has very little scent is very satisfying. LOL I would get JtO in a heartbeat...I love the fragrance.

Carol

Carol, that "shining, sought after rose" is what keeps so many rose people collecting, I think. They never find that perfect rose, and end up with a thousand or so plants, still yearning for the perfect and unattainable (that's just my theory). At this point, I feel like I've acquired the closest to my ideal rose, and haven't felt the need for more like I used to, which is a good thing because I have no more room or spare energy. It's kind of liberating, though not as exciting as the acquiring stage. Just what comes closest to your dream of rose perfection? Diane

I think you’re right, Diane. Or it’s greed - I think that’s my problem. Like the score (and theme of the movie) in The Greatest Showman “Never Enough”, rose growers may seek this greatness that is not realistic. My garden and pots are full and yet I always buy one or two extra. I need to reach that state of zen as you have :)

I get about 3 flushes from GJ but the latter two are nothing like the first. You will have to post pics of your CdP this year - I would like to grow it for the color alone.

I find that Gertrude Jekyll gets better at repeating as she becomes more established.

Diane - I want another Paradise Found (my picture avatar). I love that rose...mine died. I would love to get some of Week's new releases...I can't remember their names right now...but they're full, fragrant and full of different colors. Maybe I'm chasing Ahab's whale, and never mind about that elusive rose. LOL

Dave - yes, my husband (money) would love it if I could reach Diane's zen-like state. But I think that next year, I'm going to be focusing on getting more roses switched over to the new potting mix...so I may buy only 1 or 2 roses. My family laughs when I say that. LOL I'm not greedy about having huge flushes of flowers...I just want flowers that keep coming...one, two, three are enough for me. So as long as GJ keeps blooming a little bit, I'll be happy. :)

K S - So I should have patience. :) I can do that. Thank you!

Carol

Carol, hehheh, "chasing Ahab's whale". I like that. I'm not sure how solid my zen-like state is just now. After I waxed eloquent last night, I was wide awake, so I checked my list of roses to "look up" on HMF. There was Lavender Ice waiting for me (you who grow it--maybe Ann--come forward and confess). I have seen LI's photo on this forum very recently. Anyway, I looked, and then I realized Lavender Ice is a Tantau rose I have wanted for years, which is of course unavailable for sale in the US and Canada. Instantly, the zen fled, and I'm afire with a need for Lavender Ice. This rose is like a frilly, petal stuffed Augusta Luise, only it's a beautiful lavender. A rose grower named Honza from the Czech Republic has posted the most stunning photos of Lavender Ice on HMF. Sadly, the zen is not with me now, but I have hopes it will return soon, when I regain my senses.....Carol, I'm sure you will enjoy your new roses immensely, and I hope Paradise Found is in your future. I'm sure I saw a seller of PF somewhere not that long ago. It will probably be a seller that doesn't ship to Canada, or some other frustrating problem. Enjoy your new roses. Diane

Diane - Yes, looks like your zen has flown to Europe. :) I just looked up Lavender Ice - wow!!! No wonder your zen took a holiday...that is gorgeous enough to eat!! Yeah, I don't even know where I got Paradise Found in the first place... We're like storm chasers...trying to chase down this rose and that rose. LOL

Carol

A storm would be a lot easier, Carol. Diane

Carol, Google "rose lavender ice" and check the images. I just had to pick myself up off the floor. The beauty, it burns. Just below the images is an entry for "lavender and rose ice cream". This is too much for an old lady. I need to check that recipe. Diane

Diane - LOL I didn check the images...it's beautiful!! "The beauty, it burns." LOL That is so true!! It's like someone squeezes your lungs and a gasp comes out.

Carol

There's a lot of great Austin roses, but I think Crown Princess Margareta and Benjamin Britten are the best. Amazing disease resistance, great fragrance and very vigorous growers. If I had better soil I'd plant them for sure.

Carol, I just brought up an amazing thread from Henrik of Sweden. Do you remember posting a couple of times on this thread? I am stunned at the beauty of these European roses from Massad, Tantau, and others that we cannot even have the chance to grow. These unique beauties really get my ancient heart pounding. I hope you take another look at the thread, and I hope Henrik posts again this June. Diane

Oops, Henrik's post and photos are at the top in the Roses Gallery. I posted through Google images and didn't realize his thread was in the gallery. Diane

Perennial fan - do you think CPM can be grown as a free standing shrub?

Diane - I'll look on the rose gallery! Thanks for the heads up. :)

Carol

Hi Diane - I just got LI this spring after BenT posted his photos. Mine is still a six-inch tall baby with two blooms.

It’s a darker purple than the photo shows not so much a lavender. LI is supposed to be a climber so I’m expecting to give it support. I don’t think I’ll ever reach that zen state where I don’t want some rose or another.

Ann

Ann - yeah me neither. :) That's a gorgeous LI - what a wonderful climber that's going to be!!

Carol

Correction! My rose is Lavender Crush not Lavender Ice. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner.

Ann

I was wondering, cause it looks so different than Lavender Ice that BenT showed. :)

Carol

I was afraid that was the case, Ann, though your rose is gorgeous, too. Be sure to look at Henrik's gallery post. His roses are stunning, but really different, and every one, to my knowledge, can't be purchased in the US or Canada. Diane

I marvel at Henrik’s roses each year. I just got St Ethelburga from Hortico this year which I learned about through Henrik’s posts.

Ann

On the David Austin roses website, CPM can be purchased as either a shrub or climber, so yes I think it can definitely be grown as a shrub. Another thing worth noting is that the David Austin roses site lists it as hardy to zone 4. If you do decide to grow it I hope it comes back for you Rosecanadian. I'm just curious though, what's the difference between a rose purchased as a shrub and a rose purchased as a climber?

Perennialfan - I don't know how they can have two different types of them. Maybe there are climbing sports???

Carol

Carol, there is no difference in the so called types. The larger Austin roses with a tendency to stretch out if given a support are called climbers in one listing; then in another listing they'll call that same rose a shrub if grown as a shrub with no support. Golden Celebration can be a climber in propped against our porch. Or, I can grow it as a shrub, taking care to keep it away from the porch railings (he's sneaky). But GC is also very upright. I grow mine as a big shrub. Diane

Here's a cane of GC wanting to be a climber.

Oh, I get it. Thanks. :) That's a lovely, romantic pic of GC!!! I love it!! But you're right..it's sneaky!!!

Carol

nanadoll is correct about certain David Austin roses that are sold in both the "shrub" category and the "climber" category being the same stock. I was puzzled about this and called David Austin's office to inquire. I just bought and planted The Pilgrim, for example, which is sold in the shrub category and also in the climber category. The DA employee said yes, the exact same plant could ship out for a purchase made by clicking in to The Pilgrim through either category.

So, thank you nanadoll! I had an erroneous understanding on this.

My experience with CPM would caution you against growing it as a free standing shrub in our climates. Mine is only root hardy so it regrows the canes every year. They are the floppiest canes I've ever seen on any rose (including climbers) and I can't imagine them ever standing up on their own. When I tried growing it without support the canes wove around the base of about 15 roses nearby lying on the ground like vipers seeking their prey. Now that I grow this one on an obelisk I can weave the canes around a small support without any resistance whatsoever since the canes are so flexible.

I know you protect your roses inside so you might have more surviving cane than I do. At its best though, I can't imagine CPM growing into a self-supporting rose like Teasing Georgia does.

Cynthia

Cynthia - that's good to know. I'll look for an obelisk...but it's got to be narrow enough to fit in a pot. I'll be on the look out. Thanks! :)

Carol

I’m drooling from all this pics!