Software
Houzz Logo Print
germain_wong

Mitered Siding (Boral) - is this bad or am I being unreasonable?

8 years ago


The nightmare continues.


My GC thinks I'm unreasonable ("these guys are siders, not finish carpenters!"), but I think a house of this value deserves higher quality workmanship.


Out of maybe 100 mitered pieces, I'd say only 10-15 are good (good as in the angled corners actually TOUCH to make a clean 90 degree angle). The rest looks like the pics below.


I've asked for a re-do, but the GC says the sub will "walk". Honestly at my wits end.


The GC thinks the next guy (i.e. finished patiner) can use wood filler and a sander to smooth out all these imperfections. I'm starting to see a pattern here -- it's always the next guy's problem. This is what he said to me when I noticed that the rough framing next to the window (where the siding is to be installed) was not plumb -- top and bottom was off by about 3/8". He said, "don't worry, the siders will use shims to even it out".


I know mitered corners (esp on the exterior of the house and esp with real wood) is trouble. But Boral is a very stable material. If the miters split, I'd expect it to be 2-3 years down the road. Not right after the install!!!


Take a look at these pics and let me know is this bad? Or am I being unreasonable?















Comments (25)

  • 8 years ago

    "I've asked for a re-do, but the GC says the sub will "walk"."


    As long as he walks away not getting paid, I would wave as he leaves. Your GC is the main issue however as that is awful.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Totally unacceptable. Here's some shots of a house I recently designed where we had an "industry standard" trim carpenter. All joints (columns and newels were field constructed) are snug and mitered with 100% contact and no gaps. Azek here however but that would make no difference. Boral would have been the same.



    Edit: And upon a closer look it appears the guy used FRAMING nails. Normally, for trim, finish nails are used. A much smaller hole is left for the painter to cover over.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    "The GC says the sub will "walk"."

    That may not be a bad thing.

  • 8 years ago
    Oh hello Mark and Millworkman, long time no chat!

    Thanks for everyone’s comments. So do you guys think wood filler and sand paper can get the corners looking good? The Boral still needs to be painted.

    I’m trying very hard to be reasonable and not ask for do-overs if repairs can indeed “fix” the issue. But I have no idea what the end result of wood filler + sand paper would look like....
  • 8 years ago

    I don't think there are any exterior siding/trim products out there that spec. finish nails as a fastener. It looks like the Boral is fastened with siding nails as per manufacturers specs. Too bad they didn't use finish nails, it would be much easier to rip the siding off...

  • 8 years ago
    Architectrunnerguy: your job looks flawless! Even zoomed in! (A lot of times things look ok from afar until you get close). LOL...

    Thanks for posting the pics. On our windows though, it is quite a bit harder as there are so many of them (10 tall skinny innie windows all together).

    My architect was asking the sider if it would be easier to pre-glue the corners on a bench before installing..... Millworkman, you’re a carpenter right, what do you think?
  • 8 years ago

    So would you normally pay more for a Trim guy to do these innie window details rather than chance it with siders who may not be as well versed with intricate work?

  • 8 years ago

    I think that is a pretty bad window detail (the design and the results.). With the textured siding any putty/filler is going to show. What does the siding die into on that patio door?

    If you have more siding these are the fasteners I would use if possible.

    https://www.fastenmaster.com/newsroom-details/fastenmaster-cortex-for-boral-truexterior.html

  • 8 years ago

    And herein lies the discussion about "simple ain't easy". Going for a clean minimalist look is EXPENSIVE. WAY MORE EXPENSIVE that 14 layers of trim - which can hide a multitude of sins - and usually does...

    Finding someone that can execute this is challenging. Unless your contractor regularly works with someone who does this level of detail, and unless your contractor HAS this kind of eye for detail - you will be "the normal guys" - who assume they are not the finished product and that caulk and trim will fix everything.

    I would not have the same people do it again - because I simply don't think they will rise to the occasion and they will be pissed doing it over. Either your contractor needs to eat this because his selected subcontractor was not up to the job and find someone else, (and if that happens, you'll probably have to pay $$$), or you allow them to finish / adjust and live with it after painting.

    I do think that the window shot looks good overall - which is what you should focus on. The lines are straight and even, and the edges look decent from 10 feet.

    This is the reality of construction - "let the next guy fix it" and rarely are subs held accountable for excellence in their own work.

    Germain Wong thanked just_janni
  • 8 years ago

    ksc36, the silver thing you see there is the Fry Reglet J-Molding (model: JPM-75).

    It's a very nice (and expensive) product. Too bad the install is sub-par.




  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    OMG Just_Janni you hit the nail right on the head. I had this discussion with all the GCs who bid on the project ("Simple is hard! Straight lines are hard!"). They all seemed to agree and understand at the time.

    You are also right that the do-over needs to be done by a different (more skilled) crew. This crew doesn't have the right skills, they are used to doing the traditional stuff. My GC will not agree to it unless I pay, I think.



    P.S. Most things look OK from 10 feet away. And from 50 feet away I can almost pass as a model! ;-)


  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Are there nails or screws through the miter joints to draw the pieces together?

    This is definitely finish carpenter work and unusual enough that I would have asked for a mockup.

    Is the Boral Rabbeted Bevel siding available yet.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I don’t know architectrunnerguy...zoomed in, I would not say this job has 100% contact....there are huge gaps in the mitered corners of the siding...

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "There are huge gaps in the mitered corners of the siding"...Oh geez, try to give friendly, free and helpful advice....that's because the shingles are not mitered, they're woven...

  • 8 years ago

    ^ Just so you know, that comment did not come from the OP (i.e. me!!!)

  • 8 years ago
    No need to get offended, I was only making an observation.
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    For some reason I though ARG's photo was intended to show the tightness of the tapered joints of a newel post and porch column.

    Maybe it was his statement that:

    All joints (columns and newels were field constructed) are snug and mitered with 100% contact and no gaps.

    It would be painful to watch someone try to field miter cedar shingles. Shakertown makes mitered corners bonded to plywood that are glued and secured with stainless steel fasteners. They're so perfect they look unnatural, as if each one had been carved out of a block or cast in a mold. Not for me.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Want to see some tight woven shingles? Sure you do. An old carpenter on the cape was the best I 've seen; he actually put a tiny nail in each pair.

    THE BEFORE PHOTO

  • 8 years ago
    Sadly, this kind of professionalism is very rare these days. Almost everyone hired to work on my house are laborers NOT craftsmen. Big difference...
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    These guys make no distinction between rough and finish carpentry. They can do it all.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    For some reason I though ARG's photo was intended to show the tightness of the tapered joints of a newel post and porch column

    Yes. As I wrote above, I mistakenly thought the original post was about trim.

  • 8 years ago

    In any case, them's some nice mitered boards.

  • 8 years ago
    Here are pics of some dormers I'm siding for a customer with Boral beveled siding with mitered corners. It does take longer to install this way and takes patience and eye for detail. I used stainless finish nails at the miters and back cut the the miters at 47° to prevent gaps.
  • 8 years ago
    Please note that in my pics of the mitered corners you see caulking. I used caulking (sonolastic NP150) to basically seal and glue the corners together before pinning with SS finish nails. I want my corners to be water tight. yes I had a few miters that we're not tight but most fit together fairly tight.