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Need some help with kitchen layout.

Sheila Rumsey
5 years ago
I am not sure I love the placement on the stove and drawer microwave in relation to the sink. Any ideas? I am also debating a speed oven in place of a microwave. Does anyone have experience or thoughts on this? I have attached a few photos of things I like. We are using predominately wood (quarter sawn oak or hickory are top picks) for cabinets with some type of stone for counters- jury is still out on granite. I may paint the island and do plank counters for it to save some money.

Comments (20)

  • emilyam819
    5 years ago

    I’d put a second (cleanup) sink under the window.

    The microwave is a bit in the work triangle, but it’s best by the fridge.

    Don’t like the cutting board over the garbage. Get a garbage disposal.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I agree with emilyam819. Clean-up sink under the window, with DW to the left. I'd then move the prep sink on the island a few inches to the left, and have the trash pull-out on the right, under the prep space. You can store dishes in drawers on the end of the island facing the new DW location. ETA, rough rearrangement:


  • Sammie J
    5 years ago

    Love the layout of the house. My only comment: if you are replacing appliances, make sure to get a counter-depth refrigerator. Makes a world of difference - in terms of the space and the "look" of the space.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Sammie J brings up a good point. How are the island cabinets configured? Will you have two rows and seating? Or, are those shallow cabinets on the back? If you can reduced the depth of the island, you could make the cabinets on the fridge/range wall deeper, to match the depth of a standard fridge box. It would look more built in, without giving up storage space.



  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    5 years ago

    Quite a hike from pantry to kitchen for sure and how are you planning to vent the stove since you have a second storey

  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Thanks! I appreciate the feedback from everyone so far. The sink stays where it is. I like being able to visit or watch tv while at the sink, and I can’t do that with my back to everyone. I was planning drawers down below, and I will have that entire window wall for dishes and what-not. The island is going to be my double depth workhorse, and while I will have a garbage disposal, the cutting board is intended to make composting easier. I am not set on it, but it seems like it might be convenient. The pantry will mostly be for bulk storage and small, occasional use appliances. We do a lot of fresh food, so I don’t need much storage for canned or dried things in the kitchen. My main concern is that pesky work triangle and the stove being off center. The upper level is only over the garage and secondary bedrooms, so venting shouldn’t be an issue, either.
  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    @Sammie J- unfortunately, no new appliances. I spent a ton of money on the ones I have, so they will be toted across the yard to the new house once it is built. I will need a drawer microwave or speed oven and a dishwasher only. The fridge bumping out into the room really doesn’t bother me much. Styles and arrangements, as well as standard sizes, vary so much over time that I hate to create something that will be difficult to replace later on.
  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    And yes, there will be seating on the island! It’s 5 feet wide and 10 feet long, so plenty of room. We haven’t met with the cabinet guy yet to talk about details, but I am totally open to ideas for cabinets vs bookshelves and so forth. There are tones of great ideas out there!
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    emilyam is correct again. The L makes it easy to have two sinks, and separate zones for prep and clean-up. In your layout, the DW is in the prep zone, and dish storage is a few steps away. Not the end of the world, but the layout could be much better. In the second plan, you would be prepping while facing the living areas, while a helper could be loading or unloading the DW, or gathering dishes to set the table, without entering into your prep and cooking zones.



    This is a similar plan I just posted for another Houzz member:



  • _sophiewheeler
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    You’re designing outside the parameters of the materials limitations. That island is too wide, and poorly designed. It needs to fit within a single slab of stone, and support that stone properly. Plus have room for the required electrical and plumbing components.

    The island is designed as if the infrastructure for it doesn’t exist. It has to be designed to include it.

    The whole home design isn’t designed with infrastructure or buildabiility in mind. Those winder stairs are horrible. As are the angles, and the bedrooms with zero privacy buffers. The schnozzola garage, with the home’s entry downgraded and relegated as an afterthought, and no connection to circulation paths as the backbone. It’s a series of non related poorly connected dead rooms, designed as a floorplan and not a house. And it will live poorly.

    File 13 and start over with someone of talent.

  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Well, Sophie, since I am the one who designed it for my needs and preferences, I think I will keep it. I was wondering about the width of the island, so there is something to take away there. If you have constructive comments on scale, they would be appreciated. I love a big island, but 5 feet is huge, and I have concerns about the size, myself, when it comes to cleaning. Would 4 feet be more realistic? I do want double cabinets on the ends, at least, because I really want storage for games, crayons, etc, as well as drawers for charging electronics out of sight. I haven’t been able to sit down with the cabinet guy yet to get specifics on everything, so there is still plenty of time to tweak things, other than plumbing and in slab electrical. We need the large garage, as my husband is in trades and has lots of tools. He will be the one building the house. It is on the corner of the house closest to the road, largely due to all the mature trees we have and the slope of the land. I can’t afford a long, winding driveway through the woods, nor would it be practical on our property. The garage will also be the primary entry point, next to the laundry room- not shown- since we live in the country. Hence the closets, etc on that end of the house. The front door is primarily aesthetic and that porch will be a small sitting area with a small garden, not much more. The entire layout was designed with simplicity, function (for me), and cost efficiency in mind, as well as lots of light out the back, which overlooks a creek and wooded area. The safe room is actually a tornado shelter, since basements are cost prohibitive where we live, and the bedrooms will be a guest room and home office for myself, since the kids are grown and I work from home. The entire house is set up for aging in place and wheelchair accessible. The upstairs will be for mechanical (much better than crawling around in a typical attic), storage and a playroom for visiting kids. It’s not premium everyday living space. The master is on the other end of the house and not shown. It also opens out the back. Some of the comments about having a helper in the kitchen made me chuckle. I haven’t had help in the kitchen for 20 years, which is why I am so insistent on facing into the room. I do appreciate what everyone is saying, and I know it is very in to have the second sink these days, but it’s not in the budget, nor would it be likely to see much use. That big sink in the island is the one thing that I will not change. I had one kitchen remodeled specifically so the sink could face the room, and my current, much smaller kitchen has the sink under the window. I hate it. I just don’t want to have my back to people while cleaning up. It’s a thing for me. That said, I am completely open to other ideas on storage, appliance placement, etc.
  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    5 years ago

    In response to your question about a speed oven--I highly recommend it. I installed one in my kitchen remodel a few years ago and it's wonderful. It's a GE Monogram Advantium 240V combination speed/convection/microwave oven. We use the microwave most of the time, but the speed oven option cooks a whole chicken in 30 minutes, fish in about 8 minutes, and crisps leftover pizza perfectly. It was pricey, but since I went with a single wall oven instead of a double, I saved money on that. Depending on how you cook, it could work for you.

  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Mama goose and Emily am- I totally see what you are saying. To be clear, that side of the kitchen is intended for dish storage and to have space off the island for buffet type meals during the holidays. It gives a good circular flow through the kitchen, assuming the food is ready to serve. I had really planned to use the window for herbs and houseplants most of the time. It’s something I love and don’t have a place for now. I am also seriously considering not having any uppers. My husband is having a fit, but I really don’t think I need them. My everyday dishes and cookware take up a relatively small amount of space, and the big things that see occasional use can go in the pantry. I am adding a small wet bar to the breakfast room for coffee and wine, and we are going to have banquett style seating in front of the windows. We are extremely casual diners, and most of the time it is just the two of us these days.
  • PRO
    North Coast Interiors
    5 years ago

    I’d do like the speed oven, great choice!

    I too feel the island is oversized. I have worked with many homeowners who think they NEED a LARGE island, like one you can actually dance on, and I am not sure why.

    Don’t get me wrong, I make more money in selling more countertop in my package, but you will have to address seam issues, not just in multiple slabs, but in relation to the sink, cleanability issues (how are you going to get to the sender of the island?), Quartz? -GREAT! then no sealing like with granite. (Please no butcher block surrounding the sink) how will it be supported? Back-to-back cabinets? Then how will you access the things under the over hang side? If not back-to-back cabinets, then you will you clean under the top?

    I can see you feel strongly about your design ideas, but I encourage you to take each idea and go out to places (kitchen design centers/stores) where you can be with that concept. No upper cabinets? Then where will you place all the things you have there now? The sink concern is real. Try to find a space that exists like that and BE THERE, walk through the time you spend each day in the kitchen to see how it will change the way your currently use the kitchen. I just bought a house that will get a kitchen remodel next year. Until then I have to use a double sink with the faucet installed on the small side. DRIVES ME CRAZY! ( and that’s a SMALL problem)

    I really like your design inspirations, but please keep in mind that consulting with professionals can be money spent wisely.

    Best of luck!

  • Annette Holbrook(z7a)
    5 years ago

    Like you, I like to watch tv or socialize while prepping. Not so much during cleanup as I have to look down and scrub! Also, the running water makes it hard to hear. I think mamagoose’s plan with the sink and dishwasher on the L with a dish drawer behind will be a great work flow. In your original layout you post a cooktop, but I don’t see wall ovens so I’m guessing it’s a range. Which means if you ever have the dishwasher open when someone tries to open the oven it will be a bit of a hazard. Not a common occurrence I’m sure but something to think about. You could flip the trash and DW but then the fridge area becomes your problem.

    I also like the window for plants. My new place has a great window for plants, so I’m doing something like this.

  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    North Coast and Annette- thanks! This will be by far the largest kitchen I have ever had, so I am a little baffled by certain aspects. It is very spacious compared to what I am used to, and I want to try and keep my work triangle as intact and functional as possible.

    I created a large peninsula (with the sink in it overlooking the living room) in a former house that I really liked, and I want to replicate that with the island. I do can and make preserves, etc, when time allows, and my husband has a large family when we do have them over, so any counter and serving space will be put to good use. I don’t see the stove and dishwasher being in conflict very often, so I am not too worried about it. It is a range with a double oven, and it is pretty new, so I am keeping it. Usually, the range and DW are not in use at the same time. If I narrow the island, I could move it back several inches to solve that entirely, or I could shift things around a bit on the island and switch sides. I have had the DW on both sides in the past and don’t really have a preference.

    As far as what I have in my current uppers- not much. Plates, cups, and bowls in one, and coffee cups and tumblers in another. My current lowers are practically non-existent. My kitchen now is basically a tiny L shape in an old double wide trailer. I can’t wait to move out, but it came with the acreage and allowed us to have only one payment vs 2. I am planning to run it by a designer before ordering cabinets, but maybe I need to do it sooner. I just really don’t understand the love affair with the sink under the window. It would be nice if I could move around in a similar space to see how it all works together.♀️
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    You can store dishes in drawers, eliminating the need for uppers on the 'buffet' wall. In that case, and if you are dead set against having a separate clean-up zone, I'd suggest putting the DW on the end of the island (keep in mind you'll need a return panel or cabinet), so that it's easier to unload to wide drawers under the window. Since you are making the island shallower in depth, move it out a few inches to put more space between it and the range. You can also keep service items for a buffet (table cloths, candle sticks, platters, etc.) in the drawers, along with dish linens. I would try to omit the stub wall, if structurally possible, to make the buffet counter open on that end, and add the wall space to the base cabinet.



    If you happen to decide in favor of having the separate clean-up zone under the window, a custom cutting board can be placed over the sink cut out, returning it to counter space for buffet service. ETA, forgot to mention--if you have only the prep zone on the island, the island itself doesn't need to be as long as it does to accommodate the larger clean-up sink, DW, and prep space.

    GW discussions--dishes in drawers

  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Mama goose- thank you! This is very similar to what I was thinking. I like the idea is scooting everything down! It helps to see how you have it sketched up. A man who clearly doesn’t cook or spend time in a kitchen drew it up, and I was never quite comfortable with the drawing. This is better. I definitely want to keep the length of the island, as the goal is casual seating for about 3-4 people. Moving everything down leaves room for a nice sized cabinet on the end vs two smaller ones. I can put my charging drawer there for all the phones and iPads that live at my house. :-) Posts on the corners should work for support, with some cross bracing and a center support underneath. A little heavy is fine, since we are leaning towards almost a mission style look, and that will fit. I was planning drawers for the bottom already. I agree with you on leaving the cabinets exposed on the end. That stub wall was never going to get built lol. There are others in the plan that won’t get built, either. DH and I both think those are dumb and a waste of material. He is the carpenter and electrician, and we have a friend for the plumbing and concrete finishing, with yours truly as general labor and apprentice (haha) so there will be lots of little things that get changed along the way from what is here. As long as I get the in slab things right, and I don’t do anything too crazy, I am not too worried about the rest until we get farther along.
  • Sheila Rumsey
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    I am going through old posts and got a kick out of this one. So many of my plans had to be adjusted because of errors by subcontractors that could not be fixed. My plumbers moved a drain in another room, requiring everything to be shifted about 18 inches. It was horrible. Y’all think those winder stairs were bad before- it’s got 2 turns in it now! The roof wasn’t high enough to do anything else. We did leave the kitchen more or less as is, but I lost several inches on one end, so everything had to be adjusted accordingly. The island was adjusted to 4 feet deep instead of 5. We decided 3 feet was too narrow and would look odd. Shallow cabinets for storage of infrequent use items will be on the backside underneath. The cabinets come tomorrow. Fingers crossed. I do have a HUGE pantry now. ? I guess that makes up for it. My master, not shown, is going to be amazing once we do the tile this next weekend, and we enclosed the back porch to make me a sun room. I can’t wait to fill it with plants!