Get a BlueStar and build it the way you want it. Made in America and you can even customize the color.

https://www.bluestarcooking.com/inspiration/build-your-own

if you go to AJMadison's web site, they have filters that will let you select 48" and griddle. There are lots of options. I'm partial to Capital and Bluestar personally. I've never bought from AJM, but the site is good for research.

I'll re-iterate my standard recommendation for situations like this. Get a Bluestar RNB with a built-in griddle. You'll thank me later, when you discover what a big difference it makes to have higher-powered burners.

If space is a concern, get the 36" model. If space and money isn't as much of an issue (including the space needed for the hood and the extra overhang on the sides!) then get 48" or more. Most people won't actually need that much space, especially since the griddle can probably do double-duty as a French top and/or a simmer burner. But if you do need the space, then you do need it. Only you would know.

I would discourage you from getting a full range, when shopping for a big cooking surface like this. You are more likely to enjoy a rangetop and some wall ovens. If you do decide on gas, then a rangetop is a significantly better choice than a cooktop. On the other hand, if you decide on induction, then a cooktop seems to be the more popular choice.

The Bluestar RNB is really easy to clean, if you select the open burners. I personally wouldn't want to go back to closed burners. I find they are a lot harder to keep clean. And the RNB is said to have a better griddle than the more expensive Platinum model.

For the wall ovens, I would encourage you to look at combination steams ovens for at least one of the ovens. Of course, that's going to drive your already high budget even higher.

And I don't even want to get started on telling you how expensive the 54" or 66" hood is going to be, how many CFM you need, and how much money you'll spend on a suitably sized make-up-air system.

Alternatively, look at overlay griddles and also don't discount induction. There is not one-size-fits-all, and sometimes it takes some more research and outside-of-the-box thinking before you find something that fits your particular cooking style, your budget, and your available kitchen space.

The OP has not responded to Sophie Wheeler's post. A 48" range will need a hood that is 48-54" wide. Since you said your kitchen is small, are you OK with foregoing the upper cabinets for that size hood?

That size hood means the ductwork also must be large enough - a 10" diameter exhaust duct will be required, though you may be able to work with an 8" diameter, but not less. What is the size of yours? Furthermore, the amount of cfms for that size hood means a lot of air is being pulled, which creates the risk of CO also being pulled into your house. That creates the need for makeup air. People who buy 48" or larger ranges must be prepared for all that comes with it.

Thanks, I did not respond to Sophie's post because I didn't think it really addressed my question. I understand that a large(r) range will also require more significant ventilation and loss of upper cabinets above the range.

Avoid any Wolf electric oven wall oven or DF range. Search blue chipping on this appliance forum to read about this 10 year old problem that they can't seem to fix.

Robert, I would look at BlueStar RNB, but it is very different from the DCS. It has star shaped, uncapped burners with an open burner tray. It is high BTU and because there is no cap, the flame goes in more of a straight up direction. This compares the capped DCS burner top to the uncapped BS burner.

The open burner tray comes apart for cleaning. There are videos on YouTube that show how this is done.

The double griddle is over a full 4 burners about 24x24 on BS so bigger than the one on the DCS which seems to be about 18" wide. I can find out very little about the DCS griddle in a quick search. In one place it said it was stainless but in another place talks about seasoning it. It is also not clear how it is heated.

If the griddle is the most important thing, Wolf makes an all gas 48" range with a 4 burner griddle. It is heated by an infrared burner so the heat source is the most even. The griddle is rolled steel, either 1/2" or 3/4" depending on where you read on their website. This is much thicker than others and helps with eveness of heat. It can be seasoned.

You also have the option of an add on griddle. They are very reasonably priced and give you a lot of choices.

You can use different metals-aluminum for even heating which comes bare or nonstick costed. The bare seasons over time. You can also use steel. Chef mate makes a 4 burner griddle. There are also fitted add ons.

You can get more heat with an add on as most built ins are limited to 15K BTUs under the 2 burner size.

The two burner add ons are a lot bigger than the two burner built in. I think it might be bigger or about the same as the DCS you are looking at but you have to measure the usable space to see. I have a 15x23"

Aluminum

http://royalindustriesinc.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_22_48

Steel

http://www.rockymountaincookware.com/commercial-stove-top-griddles.html

Fitted

http://www.rockymountaincookware.com/commercial-griddle.html

Are you saying that you dont think the new DCS models work as well as your older DCS nosewmuch? Or that other newer units (from wolf or bluestar etc are not as good?

wekick: Is the bluestar going to work well with nonstock/stainless or moreso with cast iron? I cook a little with cast iron but moreso with the other two. I was looking at the bluestar cooktop earlier with the 4 burners and the double griddle. I thought it was interesting that the DCS double griddle is off to one side allowing for 5 burners on the stove portion (and one big flat area of grates to move pans around on) whereas the BS with the double griddle put the griddle in the middle, and then had 2 burners on each side. On my super crappy super cheapo super old current gas range, I cant even fit 2 large pots on burners front-back (or anything on the back really when a large saute pan is on the front)...I liked the big continuous cooking surface of the DCS. I will have to find someplace to check out the bluestar to see if I feel like I have sacrificed burner space for griddle...

My preference with the griddle is electric (which I think infrared is) so I can set it to a specific temperature based on what I want to griddle....Is that how the bluestar griddle works or is it more of a high-medium-low like the burners?

The Bluestar works just fine with any of these cookwares. Personally, I'd discourage you from using non-stick, but that's something everybody has to decide for themselves. I am much happier with a properly seasoned carbon steel pan. It requires that the pan is hot before you add ingredients; but if you do that, it's just as non-stick. And it's much harder to damage. It also can directly go into the oven or under the broiler.

You can ask Bluestar for custom configurations that put the burners in different locations or that change the output power of the burners. Personally, I didn't have a need for a simmer burner and replaced it with a medium-power burner. Bluestar burners have very even output regulation even down to low power.

So, you could probably move all the burners to one side and the griddle to the other side. But then, you'd run into exactly the problem that you are describing. Things get crowded. If you want a 24" griddle on a 48" range, then that only leaves you with 24" for the burners. If they are adjacent to each other, you often can't fit everything. If you move them onto both sides of the griddle, then the overhang of a large pot isn't really an issue.

This becomes particularly important when using the Bluestar's ability to directly fit a round-bottom wok onto its burners. (BTW, that's a killer feature that I use all the time).

The griddle for the RNB series is thermostatically controlled. You set it to one temperature and it stays there. The griddle for the Platinum series doesn't have this feature, but I believe it instead has the able to convert into a grill. I wouldn't need that, but some people probably appreciate the extra flexibility.

With a big griddle, your griddle becomes another place where you can put pots that need to simmer. So, having the burners on each side isn't as much a problem as you'd think. But if that still bothers you, then I'd say you'd have to upgrade to 60". Or you'd have to get a smaller griddle. 24" of griddle space is huge and does come with compromises.

I just finished my remodel. I used a Miele 42" range with a griddle and love it. The Miele griddle has infrared heating so it heats quickly and very evenly, unlike some that have hot and cool spots. I wasn't sure I would use the griddle much but find I use it often, even though I live on my own now. The burners put out a huge amount of heat on high and work well at simmer too.

M: I also prefer properly seasoned cast iron and have also purchased a carbon steel pan recently to try out....but I seem to be terrible at properly seasoning and maintaining my cast iron, and initial attempts to season the carbon steel didnt go well either. My parents use cast iron...theirs have been seasoned for decades and are awesome to cook with...I just focus so much on actually preparing meals that I never seem to allocate the time to learn myself the proper seasoning habits to get into.

I would not do DCS.

The Wolf griddle is considerably better than the Bluestar. It is IR and uses thicker steel so has more even heat across its surface and maintains a more even temp over time. Unfortunately the Wolf griddle is on a Wolf range so you get downgraded to sealed burners.

Kind of a tough choice; Bluestar RNB with good burners and not so good griddle or Wolf all gas with not so good burners and better griddle. Capital?

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/9588-how-to-season-a-carbon-steel-pan

I'll second the use of carbon or blue steel pans instead of non-stick. We use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00076QWUY

I'll second the use of steel pans instead of non-stick. We use Matfor-Bourgeat.

In comparing the bluestar to the wolf burners, is it an "open and shut case" that the bluestar burners are better? I thought the choice between open and closed burners was more personal preference and each had pluses and minuses?

A good cook can produce great meals with either burner but it sometimes requires more effort with the sealed Wolf burners.

Open burners will generally produce more even heat across the bottom of a pan, particularly in the center where Wolf burners miss and open burners put more heat to the bottom of the pan and less up around the side in to the cooks arms and face vs sealed Wolf burners. Open burners are more energy efficient. I think the only place BS totally beats Wolf is with Wok cooking.

After being fairly positive we'd go BS we will likely go Wolf AG. I'd much prefer the BS open burners but the much better griddle on the Wolf outweighs the advantages of the open burners. I can much more easily compensate for the lessor Wolf burners than I can for the lessor BS griddle.

“ Is the BlueStar going to work well with nonstock/stainless or moreso with cast iron?”

Both will work. Cookware is the intermediary between the food and the source of heat. It can extend what your burner will do. Cast iron is a poor conductor of heat compared to copper or aluminum so the star spreads the heat out and heats the cast iron more evenly as long as the pan is sized to the burner. Most stainless pans have layers of aluminum or copper clad in the stainless because stainless is the worst conductor of heat by itself. You could also buy heavy gauge copper or aluminum. The better the pan in conducting heat, the less it will need the star shaped burner.

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/120/Common-Materials-of-Cookware

This guy has done some testing on cookware.

https://www.centurylife.org/cookware-even-heating-rankings-butane-propane-natural-gas-etc/

“Good” burners is a very subjective term. The term “open” is used as though that is the definitive criteria, but “open“ burners is an ambiguous term. At one time there were only open burners but in the 1980s an easier to clean burner was developed. At the time burner trays were open and allowed spills to get down in the stove and they were hard to clean. The burner was also capped to keep food from getting down in the burner ports.. When prostyle ranges came into being, they started marketing them as “open” burners. The term quickly became ambiguous as there are open burner trays with capped burners like Viking has made, semi sealed with capped(Wolf old style) and uncapped, star burners(American Performer). There are still $500 open burner ranges. Companies like BS would be better served to truly differentiate their products instead of doggedly using the term “open burner” when they have so much more. The cheapest ranges can claim the same thing.

Open/sealed has nothing to do with performance, just how the burners are cleaned. It is not more efficient nor does it allow more oxygen to get to the flame. Performance is related to cap vs uncapped, BTUs high and low end and shape of the burner. The DCS has the stacked burners which does limit the flare on high heat. I have a Wolf DF range and bought mine for the oven, which was a big disappointment because of the blue chipping enamel. I was also considering BS but at the time fit and finish was poor and there were some other issues that are now fixed. I was surprised at how much I liked the stacked burners. The simmer is great. I use a lot of 14” skillets that are heavy aluminum so if the burners are wider on high heat, that is a good thing. I don’t cook any small pans on high heat and if I use a wok, it is for small amounts. BS excels in using a wok because the uncapped burner allows the heat to go more to the middle. Also the burner ports are on the sides of the rays of this burner so that as you turn it up, the flame stayed in the same foot print. If you have a 14” pan that does not conduct heat well, the heat ends up in the middle which isn’t a good thing.

The DCS you linked has an electric oven. Is this important?

“ On my super crappy super cheapo super old current gas range, I cant even fit 2 large pots on burners front-back (or anything on the back really when a large saute pan is on the front)...I liked the big continuous cooking surface of the DCS. I will have to find someplace to check out the bluestar to see if I feel like I have sacrificed burner space for griddle...“

That is the best thing to do. Take your pans with you. Prostyle ranges usually have more room front to back.

“My preference with the griddle is electric (which I think infrared is) so I can set it to a specific temperature based on what I want to griddle....Is that how the bluestar griddle works or is it more of a high-medium-low like the burners?”

The Wolf griddle is infrared gas. This is the burner.

Opa one, check out the Miele, burners are sealed so easy to clean but have wide spread, and griddle is great.

Is an infrared gas burner controlled by temperature? or by high/medium/low flame?

I was looking for an electric oven....it might be because our current oven sucks, but in my experience I tend to prefer electric. Additionally, not that we are necessarily going this route...but if we want an electric oven, it gives us the flexibility of either doing a dual-fuel range or a gas rangetop with electric wall ovens.

For regular ovens, I personally don't notice all that much difference between gas and electric.

But a good argument to go electric is that you can then get a combination steam oven. And that's a whole different game. Gives you a lot more options and control.

I have continued my research and am leaning toward a 36" range with single griddle. I just dont think we have the space for a 48" (see attachment). Unfortunately we also dont really have the space for a wall oven...so I will probably be limited to a single 36" oven. I started looking into a speed oven or convection microwave or whatever do do double duty as the second oven (we have space in our island for a microwave) but im not sure those are worth the $$ since they dont seem to be very good as ovens.

Regarding the additional hood width...how necessary is this? I havent seen many/any places (including our builder/designer) mention or point out the need for a wider hood than range. I get the reason you would do that..but im not sure how that would work in our design given our upper cabinets on either side...

also forgot to ask...what are the surfaces like on these range griddles? I am not seeing a lot of details on the vendors websites....is it a good surface for browning like cast iron or thick steel? They're not non-stick are they? One of the things I hope to do on the griddle is cook burgers which right now (as I think I mentioned above) I do on cast iron on the grill or our blackstone outdoor griddle (either heated to ~400-450

Effluent rises from the range in an ever expanding plume. That's why the general recommendation is to have about a 3" overhang on each side. As a rule of thumb, that seems to be the best compromise with regards to capturing the majority of the effluent (at typical mounting height) without having to be unnecessarily huge.

I have been to lots of open houses over the years, and it is a rare house that wouldn't have the extra 3" on each side. On the other hand, there are parts of the country where many houses don't even have a hood at all. So, I am not surprised that there are builders who are not aware that this extra capture area is important.

If you rarely cook smelly foods, and if you are merely concerned about capturing heat, then this might not be as important. But your desire for a griddle suggests that you do want to fry foods on a regular basis. You'd be well advised to size the capture area correctly. You should also have the correct amount of air flow (probably on the order of 1000 CFM for your stove) and some type of make-up-air system. The best hood won't be able to do anything, unless there is fresh air that can come into the house.

As far as "alternative" ovens are concerned, a recurring theme in this forum is that anybody who installs a combination steam oven quickly discovers that this is now their main oven. The Miele models appears to be particularly popular and owners regularly report that it is the best oven they have ever owned. If possible, I'd recommend the plumbed model for ease of use, but there are many happy users of the more easily-installed non-plumbed version.

There seems to be less consensus on whether a speed oven is worth it. There certainly are happy users, and there are only few people who said they regret their purchase. But it's harder to justify the extra cost. Whereas with the combination steam oven, the consensus seems that while quite expensive, they would happily spend this money again. It's that awesome.

robertgoulet, the surface on the RNB griddle is cold rolled steel. Once seasoned, it becomes very non stick, and yes you can get a good brown on it! Burgers, sausage patties, hash browns, etc. Just a scrape and wipe with paper towel is all it takes to clean and be ready for the next meal. I use my griddle as much or more than my burners, but I cook more like a short order cook would do on a flat top at a diner.

Are the high BTU's everyone seems to desire mainly for meat searing and woks? My old Amana brings my pasta water to a boil in 12 minutes. Would like to replace but we saute and steam vegees a lot, little meat but some, and just the usual stir fries, oatmeals, and spaghetti. We eat a lot of vegees. And we are only in the 30" range size. Did not think to go bigger when we remodeled, and not doing that again (love my cabinets with drawers). So is the BS, Wolf, Thermador too much for us? I want a simmer cause after the water is done boiling or vegees steamed, we saute or simmer a sauce. Is Viking any good yet?

We have a 36" BS and a 36" Vent-a-Hood. We cook A LOT. Would it be nice if the hood were wider than the range? Sure. Is it necessary to live a full and happy life? No. I think having the upper cabinet space outweighs having to occasionally wipe down the undersides of those cabinets. And in our relatively small space, a 42" hood would look massive.

I've had a 30 in all gas DCS range for 10 yrs. Not a single problem! It has 3 - 17,500 Btu & 2 - 12,500 btu burners, all have a separate simmer. The broiler is infrared. Al friend bought the 48 inch a few yrs ago. Her only complaint is the the smaller oven is small, otherwise loves the range.

Higher BTU is nice for a lot of cooking. The fast recovery time when adding ingredients makes a disproportionate difference. A lot of foods come out much tastier and less soggy. After having had a 22kBTU burner, it's painful to go back to anything less than that.

I wouldn't pick Viking. They have a bad reputation, and I haven't heard clear evidence that newer models have a better track record. Give it a few more years for things to shake out.

BS, Wolf, Thermador, Miele, ... all have a good reputation overall. But Wolf reportedly still has ongoing issues with the enamel in their ovens. I'd avoid those.

I personally am a huge fan of our BS RNB. Never had a better range. It's a joy to cook on.

" Regarding the additional hood width...how necessary is this? I havent seen many/any places (including our builder/designer) mention or point out the need for a wider hood than range. I get the reason you would do that..but im not sure how that would work in our design given our upper cabinets on either side... "

If you are looking at a high-output range, be sure to review the manufacturer's requirements for ventilation. You will need a wider capture area for the plume (heat, combustion products, and cooking effluent) AND you need to check clearances to combustibles. You may not be able to put upper cabinets that close to the range edges due to flammability.

If you cannot go 6" wider on the hood - and many people can't - try to get a hood that is a good depth front-to-back. There are many sold that are only 20" deep or so which leaves the front burners uncovered. Try to find one that is 24" deep if possible. Also try to find one with baffle filters, not mesh.

I had asked you near the top of this thread about the size of your exhaust duct. Don't dismiss the importance of exhaust duct diameter. If your duct is too small, your hood exhaust will be noisier and less effective through no fault of the hood.

Our current exhaust duct diameter is 0. Our new cabinets will be 9" taller than our current, going right to the ceiling, so if the duct is 8"-12" from the hood out through the upper corner cabinets, its not like we are losing much usable space, so I dont think it will be a big deal.

I was talking about the duct diameter. Not its length.

Michelle:

One of the ranges I am looking at is the Wolf. Does not appear that the cabinets will be a problem....not sure what the extra "6" of width they are showing means... probably just that you cant have anything closer than 6" to either side (like a wall or fridge or anything)

also friedajune 900CFM blower will be required which needs a 10" vent pipe

The 6" on either side of the range is part of the area you cannot have combustibles located.

From the Wolf design guide " NOTE: Shaded area above countertop indicates minimum clearance to combustible surfaces, combustible materials cannot be located within this area. "

thats sort of funny...because they have clearly defined the combustible zone based on typical cabinet configurations no? If you're directly over the range than you need 30" of clearance free from combustibles but if you're 1/2" off to the side 18" is enough?

yeah, these diagrams are all confusing. I believe it is 6 inches horizontal...like to a wall. Then depending on BTU, 30" or 36" or 42" above range min height to combustibles. We're still trying to figure out if all the beadboard on the wall behind stove has to go or if if the backsplash they sell with the ranges will be enough.

FYI Bluestar has the same requirements to combustibles

BTW I have a 27"x36" hood mounted 36" above my 36RNB, 1000 cfm remote blower, works fine.
As crcollins1_gw says "Would it be nice if the hood were wider than the range? Sure. Is it necessary to live a full and happy life? No."

Very interesting. Just spoke with a BlueStar tech at their main facility. Apparently, the range has "zero clearance to a non-combustible material" - we were told to call our local county for the code on what "non-combustible" means. We asked, so we have wood cabinets, if our code says wood is combustible then we cannot install this range? Yes was the answer. What on Earth?

Our range is right next to our cabinets, and the uppers run up to the vent hood which is the same width as the range. Four years later, all is fine. YMMV

I found that Bluestar customer support is extremely reluctant to make any statements with regard to clearance. They didn't even want to read out the text from their own manuals over the phone. I'm sure there is a backstory and somebody sued at some point, and now they're excessively cautious.

But no, these stoves aren't going to set your house on fire nor scorch your kitchen unless you do something stupid. Make sure the frame of the top is raised above the countertop by a small amount; don't push the range so far in, that the oven door vents into your cabinets; don't install island trim unless you actually have an island; and don't put upper cabinets too close to the burners.

If your local building inspector is happy, you're probably ok. All these stoves have similar rules and they're mostly common sense

Thank you M! Yes, they are not helpful. I would not have called them except that my husband found a comment somewhere in which someone's cabinets actually scorched! Geesh. I am hoping that part of the reason for the doubling in cost of these is that they repaired all the issues people seemed to be having. Another $1600 for 22K and white...seems high. Too bad Viking isn't that great still.

" Just spoke with a BlueStar tech at their main facility. Apparently, the range has "zero clearance to a non-combustible material" - "

BlueStar has detailed information on their website regarding what you must do for combustible clearances. This is not the first time in recent weeks someone has spoken with them and not received adequate information.

Here is their freestanding range installation manual FROM THEIR WEBSITE which clearly shows the clearances on p.7 and the requirement of a backguard for all their ranges on p.11

You may also want to consider a Lacanche. The Lacanche quality is excellent and so is their customer service. The range contains fewer electronics so there are less components to break. They come in many different designs and sizes including 36". The ovens can be configured based on the oven size, number of ovens and the type of fuel that is used. For example, I have three ovens, a gas and an electric and an electric warming oven. They also offer convection. You can also design your cooktop to suit your needs, options including adding a griddle, grill, French plate or even a couple of induction burners. The units are solidly built with cast iron grates and are also very easy to clean. They come in a large range of colors.

After looking at many different range brands, I decided on the Lacanche for many reasons, including the many positive reviews on this site and the old Gardenweb site. I've owned mine for just over three years and I've been very pleased with my decision. Please let me know if you have any specific questions.

I was thinking about this today and it seemed to me that cooking burgers or sausage or bacon on the griddle with oil splashing about next to an open flame burner would be a much greater fire hazard than not having a 3" overhang on the vent.

Am I missing something here or can people not use the griddle at the same time as the burners without starting a grease fire?

I use the griddle at the same time as the burners all the time without fires starting.
However, I will say I do prefer to cook bacon in a cast iron skillet to help contain grease and splatters, and make clean up a bit simpler.