The only one I have is Marie Pavie, a wonderful rose. I've had 3 for 8 years & they've been champions since I first got them. No disease, lovely subtle scent (to my nose) & loads of blooms. I consider it one of my stars & a real workhorse.

I love your choices, Daisy!

Yes, great choices, Daisy. I wonder if Cori Ann will see this post--she is growing two of the most beautiful Chrysler Imperial roses. One of them dates to the 50s or 60s, and was her in law's rose. It's grafted, and the blooms are incredible. It was neglected for many years and is now totally rejuvenated. I like it better than the newer own root Chrysler.

Vapor, your Nahema is exquisite. What a perfect pink and form. Diane

Those photos are exquisite vaporac and I adore your trousers, they remind me of some I wear.

Daisy

Chrysler Imperial is one of the few roses I have 3 bushes of. Her blooms are some of the most deliciously fragrant of any. I'm a huge red rose fan!

Isn't it fun to be "rose" naughty!

Daisy, what lovely choices. I cant wait to see pictures.

Thanks Daisy! Those are my "dress" pants! They replaced ones that were held up by a binder clip!! LOL! : ))

Cramoisi Superior - typical red china - should do well in your climate. China twiggy growth - hardly every makes dead wood or needs pruning. Mine blooms a LOT for most of the Spring and Summer, and still has some blooms on it. Here are two pictures, a close up and a bush shot:

Jackie

Vapor, what pants? I want to see the pants. Diane

Me too! :-)

Daisy,

I am the 'Johnny Appleseed ' of the gem of a rose, Marie Pavie. Little in bloom, giant in characteristics, describes this beloved rose very well.

Several bushes of MP from different sources were dotted throughout my Old Garden Rose bed. I no longer grow the OGR's. , I miss Marie Pavie the most, next to Marchese Boccella, aka. Jacques Cartier.

MP is a blooming machine, the first to bloom in spring, and the last to sign out in the fall. One bush had over 300 spring flush blooms open at once. It was a 75cm X 75cm mound of white brilliance. Disease resistance is legendary. MP is also practically thornless.

The scent of Marie Pavie is identical to Rose Milk lotion, to my nose.

The only point of concern I will make, Daisy, is that not all Marie Pavies grow and bloom alike. Also MP performs better grafted, but still is outstanding own root. I had it both ways.

The best version was one from Pickering grafted on R. multiflora. It grew the largest at 75cm X 75cm (your Marie Pavie should get 1.25m or more in Crete), bloomed the heaviest, and had the most heavily petaled blooms, up to 100 petals. They were packed with wide petals, not those cactus dahlia, skinny petaled blooms seen.

The ones that were own root from Chamblee's and elsewhere grew half as large, and the blooms had petal counts of between 20-25, not very impressive. I suspect that there are imposters, look alikes, that are sold as Marie Pavie, that are not genuine. This often happens with popular old roses because through the process of time, with the vast numbers in which they are propagated, and the possibility of mutations occurring, it makes for a number of different forms of a rose occurring that are called by the same name.

Moses

Those are all gonna be beautiful and lucky roses in your garden!

Here's my Jubilee Celebration. I love her. She stays smaller than most of my Austins. She is own root. She is a little floppy when young so I have a tomato cage around her for now.

Why is it that I always fall in love with pink roses, when that's practically all I have anyway? Nahema and Jubilee Celebration took my breath away.

Moses, I have one of the "inferior" Marie Pavie types. How I'd love to see one with 100 petals! It is an awfully good rose, though, although unfortunately too short to escape the rabbits.

I have to keep looking at Jubilee Celebration, it's so lovely. I must have seen pictures of it before, although never as memorable as this.

Daisy, everything grows like gangbusters for you so you must show us pictures as soon as possible, unless these are orders for next spring. I so envy you for being able to order from John Hook. I dream about ordering roses from him that are completely foreign to me and not offered in the U.S.

I also am very fond of Marie Pavie. I have both the one with dense flowers (RU) and the one with fewer petals and looser flowers (ARE). I like them both, but perhaps the looser one a bit more, which is very strange for me, since I love those quartered Austins, but it seems a little more graceful. Mine bloom pale pink, not white, with a slightly musky wafting fragrance to my nose.

I'm not sure which ones I have, they came from Vintage. Does anybody know?

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/marie-pavie-vintage-clone-dsvw-vd~1592940?n=16

If this is correct, the Vintage clone is the one with more petals.

Thanks Noseometer, good to know.

Karen That photo of Chrysler Imperial is delicious Thank-you for posting it.

Daisy

Jackie. It was your photos of Cramoisi Superior that made me want it. It is going on the steep bank in front of my house. Being a china, it should be okay there.

Daisy

Moses, I had to look up Johnny Appleseed to understand your reference. I had not heard of him before.

You obviously love your Marie Pavie. Mine will be grafted, I am not sure which rootstock will be used. If it is half as good as your's, I will love it.

Daisy

By the way, the reason why I am responding to you all in short separate posts, is because there is a thunderstorm a few miles away. In Crete, one has to unplug all computers modems etc during a thunderstorm, so, I am keeping each response short and sweet, in case I suddenly realise that it is getting too close and pull the plugs.

Thank you, comtesse. I did check, and now I see a glimpse of pants. Yes, I lived in those days as well, and I'm surprised I survived it. I rode horseback everywhere, and was bucked off, kicked more than once, rubbed off by barbed wire fences, and had my bare foot stepped on by a shod horse several times--makes your foot feel like pure jello. Those were the days of pure freedom.

I don't know what happened to part of my post above. But thanks, Comtesse. I found the pants. Above jacket is much worse but still used two years after this photo was taken. Diane

My jaw is stil on the floor after seeing Sultrys Jubilee Celebration, especially that third picture, wow! I had no idea that was such an Interesting rose, gorgeous color and petal formation.

Vaps Pants, lol, I have the same designer.

One heads up - I had an ancient Chrysler Imperial growing in our garden 30 years ago when we moved in. Like the few other mid 20th century HTs, it was growing in the dark alongside of the driveway, but under tall bushes which had obviously grown over them. We dug all 4 of them up and put them in huge pots on the patio. CI unfortunately was the sickest - the other ones were hybridized decades before it, but CI is from 1952, not a good era for disease resistance. Long story short, even though I sprayed it, it died, after surviving 2-3 years. The blooms were gorgeous, and the fragrance was amazingly great, but it was covered in mildew, and rust, and some blackspot. So, be prepared to spray it constantly, and put it somewhere with good air circulation, and hope.

Jackie

Smithdale,

I believe one of my lower petal count, 20-25, and shorter stature Marie's, maxing at 18" high came from Vintage. It isn't hard to tell the difference. The very double form is consistently very double all over the bush, all season long. Both are fragrant to the same degree, to my recollection.

Take a look at the photos on HMFR of Marie Pavie. Those from: Rosenursery Belle Epoque, RegPNW, mashamcl, and others, differ significantly from those from: Straw Alkaline Clay 5a, Kathy Strong, Celestial Rose and others.

Moses

Daisy,

One more thing about Marie Pavie. She has no behavior problems....no wild, octopus canes during her youth that we often encounter with so many roses these days, especially from some Kordes and Austin varieties. She's a cultured, refined little lady.

Of all the nodding bloomed roses I grew/grow her nodding blooms are the epitome of grace and charm. I've almost talked myself into putting back in some Maries. They would certainly be a welcome replacement relief from the constant struggle I experience with my minis and minifloras. Forget the exhibition form blooms of these prima donnas. They're not worth the care involved.

Moses

I don't think in Daisy'e hot, dry climate the mildew, rust etc, would be much of a problem. Cori Ann is no spray in her hot, dry climate near Livermore (Nor Cal), and her roses are clean. Of course, every place is different, but I'd say the odds for CI are good in Crete. Diane

Kristine thanks for your sweet comments. Yes Jubilee celebration has pretty interesting buds which are kinda rounded then start opening with a little bit of a burnished peach with hints of yellow to the outer petals. Then she opens to a warm yummy pink! Mine has stayed on the smallish side so far. I have another JC that is older which is grafted to Doc Huey. Interestingly, the own root is doing better in my yard. Usually its the opposite.

nanadollZ7 - I live in the same hot dry summer, mild wet winter climate that Cori Ann lives in. (Nor Cal). It is called a "Mediterranean" climate for a reason - same as Crete. That is why I mentioned CI's troubles. My entire garden with over 120 roses is no spray, except for the 3 surviving mid 20th century HTs - they did not seem to consider health much then, as everybody sprayed every rose constantly. Most more modern HTs have better disease resistance.

Jackie

Sjn, those are the most delicious photos of Jubilee Celebration I have ever seen. One wants to bury one's face in them. I did find a stunted JC with lots of die back, in a local garden centre last spring. It was in a poor way. I planted it in a pot and it just sat there for what seemed like ages. But then, it began to grow. It just got better and better all summer, even through the heat waves. So of course I had to have more of it.

Daisy

Ingrid, I think you should try J B. It impressed me with the way she managed to cope in the heat. Do what I am doing and order three and plant them close together. Or try one in a big pot.

Jackie, I don't know if they are related, but I already have, Firefighter, Oklahoma and Papa Meilland rose. They do so well, that I thought it would be worth trying Chrysler Imperial. You have given me good information about it. Thank-you.

Daisy

As you mentioned 'Papa Meilland' Daisy, and that it does well for you, I wonder if you're aware that there is a newer 'improved' form of this now called 'Jubilee Papa Meilland'... I'd like to get one as it's time to find a nice red rose for my garden... and I don't mind the occasional HT...

Style Roses UK

..p.s. I don't think they're actually related, as such...

Moses and Noseometer. David Austin's photo of Marie Pavie on his UK website shows the bloom as having many petals, but not so many that the stamens are invisible. It looks very pretty.

Diane and Jackie, my garden is also no spray. I do occasionally get some mildew on some of the roses, but it disappears after a while, without any intervention from me.

Daisy

Marlorena, the new Jubilee Papa Meilland, looks gorgeous. I would love to try it here, but would like to know how the petals would stand up to the Mediterranean sun first.

The photos on the link are gorgeous.

Daisy

Daisy, how dense the flower looks and whether or not the stamens are showing may have to do with the vagaries of the season or weather. Mine sometimes shows the stamens more.

There are a couple of minor downsides to Marie Pavie, at least in my garden. One is that she does hang on to the faded flowers, so she needs deadheading in order to look neat. The other is that it tends to get chlorotic in my alkaline soil. It might help with your planning that, in the approximately five years I've grown her, she has grown to 4 feet tall and at least as wide. I thought that she'd be a much smaller. Don't be too disappointed if at first she doesn't seem to be very heat tolerant. That improves.

Daisy, Jubilee Celebration is new to my garden this year, but I love it already!

The pink and cream blooms are awesome, so too the fragrance...