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GE or Bosch slide-in induction range?

wannaknow2
November 26, 2018
last modified: November 26, 2018

I'm ready to buy a replacement for my 42 year old 30" GE coil range and have been comparing the GE Cafe CHS985SELSS(single oven; the double is too low) and the Bosch 800 series (non flexion) HIIP055C and the Benchmark (flexion) HIIP055U.


The GE oven seems more powerful:


Oven

.............................Baking Elem.................Broiling Elem..........Convection Elem

GE.........................2850 watts .................4000 ..............................2500

Bos Bnchm........ 2400.............................3000 ...............................2000

Bos 800...............2400..............................3000................................2000


The induction is more questionable; the GE has higher wattages, but no boost. This means the 11" hob is always used at the high (almost boost) level of the Bosch. I am not sure if that is a good thing. Do you think always using the 3700 watt setting is a problem on the 11" GE hob, given that Bosch has it for the boost setting - meant to be used for 10 minutes at a time? Does this mean the settings are much more spread apart since you have to divide 3700 w amongst the 21 settings as opposed to dividing 2200 (and occasionally 3600) amongst the 17 Bosch settings? Does that mean the very low settings are much further apart and you can't get a low enough very low or simmer?


Induction

.....................Elem 1 Size/Pair/Watts/Boosted Watts............Elem 2 Size/Pair/Watts/Boosted Watts

GE............................8"/Yes/2500/None .....................................8"/Yes/2500/None

Bos Bnchm............8x9"/Yes/2200/3600.................................8x9"/Yes/2200/3600

Bos 800................6"/No/1400/2200 .........................................9"/No/2200/3700


....................Elem 3 Size/Pair/Watts/Boosted Watts............Elem 4 Size/Pair/Watts/Boosted Watts

GE...........................6"/No/1800/None............................................11"/No/3700/None

Bos Bnchm............6"/No/1400/2200............................................11"/No/2600/3700

Bos 800..................6"/No/1400/2200............................................11"/No/2600/3700


Both have the paired or flex bridge on the left. The Bosch has the 11" in the front while the GE has it in the back. I realize the front could be a better choice if you have very heavy empty pans (such as enameled cast iron) which would be really heavy with 4-6 quarts of water (8-10 pounds more). The down side would seem to be reaching over a pan hot with boiling water to reach the back burner with a smaller pot. What is your experience and would you change the set-up if you could? The Bosch (non boost settings) seem to be within 300-400 watts below the GE; is this a significant consideration? I'm sure the next iteration of Bosch will have higher basic wattages to match or outdo the GE, but I need a range now, not a year or two from now when they reimagine their products.

The GE has knobs while the Bosch has digital controls for the induction. Does that make a difference for you? I've read here that there's more precision in the digital, but the GE's 21 settings seems to give a lot of choice, and it isn't really significantly different than Bosch's 17 (18?) settings. Also, would you think there is less to go wrong with mechanical knobs as opposed to the electronic digital?


The Bosch is hard-wired while the GE has a plug. The plug seems to be a better choice for me because I am not ready to redo my kitchen and the hardwire would make it difficult to move when I do new kitchen. (I inadvertently put a microwave plastic in the oven and it melted and then hardened on the racks, so I need a range now.) Wired would also stop you from pulling out the range to clean, such as crumbs/dust under the bottom drawer (I only did this maybe twice in the 34 years I've lived here). Am I missing anything in favor of the hard-wire?


The Bosch top extends over the counter. What does that mean for me if I get new counters? Is adjusting the height/leveling something that can be done after it is installed? Is it foolish to consider that top if I am going to replace the counters? Do crumbs or spills still get under the edges? What about the GE? I think I have a free-standing now because the top has room between the counter and the stovetop. It also has the control panel on the rear, although I am not sure if that is the only way things were made 42 years ago. I'm pretty sure it is the builder's basic. The Bosch seems to also require a cut-out whereas the GE seems to say it will fit in the current set-up. Is cutting-out a big thing? It looks beautiful, but what will I have to go through to get there?


I wouldn't get a Frigidaire/Jenn-Air/Kitchen Aid because of the Aqua Lift self cleaning terrible reviews. The GE has a choice of a steam or 3 or 5 hour high heat; the Bosch has a choice of 2 to 4 hours, but no steam. Have the electronics improved any so that the high heat doesn't damage or ruin the induction? I am surprised no one has come up with something that works between the 200 degree steam it off (or not) or 900 degree burn-it off option. I don't have self-clean now, but think I would use it maybe 2-4 times a year? What do you think? How often do you use the self-clean? Do you hold your breath each time? I haven't read anything in the reviews about the worthiness of the GE steam clean.


I haven't read anything about the quality of the convection in terms of evenness and hot spots, especially for baking cookies or even frozen pizza. The GE has something called Precision Air which seems to be several vents for heat distribution. Not sure how many Bosch has, whether the GE is something unusual or just what others have with their own name for the same feature. Can you please tell me about even cooking and whether you think there is a difference between the two? Are the higher element wattages in the GE significant enough to be important considerations? I don't have a good understanding of the usable area of the GE oven or how they compare; Bosch gives the dimensions of the usable area.


Do you have any thoughts about the comprable usable area of the cooktops? The placement of the controls? Do you find the controls can be accidentally turned off? What about the oven controls? I can't find anyone that has the Bosch on display and I'd like to see the oven panel. I know it is on an angle, but is it easy to see and use? Some have remarked that inadvertently touching the panel as you use the top can cause the oven to go off (or on). What has been your experience? Do you have to keep protectively locking everything each time you use or adjust the top or the oven?


I read that you shouldn't take a pot cover off a hot pot and put it down on the stovetop, not sure if it's the possible condensation bond, but cracking could occur. Yet, you can take a pan from the oven and place it on the stovetop to rest and cool without concern that it will cause a hob to turn on, and the pan's heat will not damage the cooktop? Is it as easy to scratch the cooktops as before or has the material become any better? Do you find the scratching to be a big issue? I wouldn't shake a fry-pan on the hob, but I can imagine sliding a pan from the oven or stove top over to a non-induction area or another hob.


The Bosch has convection broil while the GE does not. Do you find yourself using convection broil? Do you find it makes a difference between that and regular broil? Do you use the high and regular broil settings or only the regular setting? I think both have 8 pass broil which is very good.

The Bosch has 2 standard and one telescopic oven rack but the GE has one roller and two regular racks. I am not sure what a roller rack is; my current oven just has two pull out racks that lock when they are extended but can be taken off the guides to reposition. I am not sure, but have a feeling that is what the two regular racks are in the GE and the Bosch.


I know Bosch gets high marks for reliability and repair frequency, not sure about GE in general or Cafe series in particular. I feel that despite similar prices the Bosch is a higher-end unit, but I am unsure if that is simply an unfounded bias.


The Bosch has individual hob timers, which is a good idea, but not a deal breaker for me since there are apps that time 4 burners individually on my phone. The GE has a delay start, also nice, but not the most important feature. The GE knobs are backlit LEDs, not sure about the Bosch.

I am leaning in favor of the GE which is $3699 compared to the Benchmark which is $3799. I think I would like the flex, although it seems the Benchmark never goes on sale whereas the 800 series does, so the difference for flex can be several hundred dollars. I see Wolf boasts of a 20 year life span, and I wonder if it is worth paying approximately double once, to get more than double the anticipated life span of the Bosch or GE. I realize Wolf can easily slip out of their responsibility by blaming you for not caring properly for the range. I do see two large drawbacks: one would be the oven having a space of several inches between the bottom and the floor (could you even get a broom under that?) and the small 2.8 cubic foot oven.


I know this is long, and I have tried to ask all the questions for which I have not found answers, so thank everyone so much in advance for all of their experience, thoughts and willingness to help me tackle the issues.

Comments (40)

  • Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

    Read up on threads about both those brand induction ranges. For me Bosch would win. I don't think GE Is a bad choice though (and in my opinion there are many bad choices). I know that is not very helpful ;-) Just hoping to get the conversation rolling.

    As far as upgrading goes, I would not. Bosch for sure is reliable enough to not warrant the extra expenditure. I have induction from one of their sister companies and really, aside from sleeker looks and cool bells and whistles, I am very sure its the same basic product.

  • Jakvis

    A really long post with valid points. I just wanted to state that to wire the Bosch you only have to add the cord. It does not require hard wiring so you don't have to change your electical hookup.

  • Sue Mcgrath

    I can't speak for the GE, when I got my slide in induction, I was between the Bosch benchmark and the Samsung Chef Collection. Price point pretty much the same but the Samsung has the flex duo option where you can divide the oven and cook at 2 different temps (finally tried that and works really well btw) I checked consumer reports and they were almost exactly equally highly rated, and read customer reviews on various websites. In the end I decided on the Samsung because of additional features offered, and have been very happy for the 1.5 years that I've been using it. Oh, and btw, of course you can put a hot pan on the stovetop with no issues!

  • venmar

    A few points re the GE, I am sure the wattages you were given ARE boosted watts. Every major manufacturer induction range/stove I have seen in USA/Canada has a boost setting on all 4 cooktop hobs and those watts seem similar to GE's non-Cafe ranges. The cooktop temperature probe on GE Cafe sounds useful. Both Frigidaire and parent company Electrolux's induction ranges DO have high heat self-clean. Their controls face up so a little easier to use. The more deluxe featured Electrolux is in similar price range as the GE Cafe and Bosch but the Frigidaire is a low price bargain for an induction range and might be worth a look. With any modern induction range I would buy the longest extended warranty I could, my 3 year warranty saved me from repair bills at year 2 1/2 when the power company shorted out the neighbourhood while moving a power pole, denying compensation. 3 years later our Electrolux is still working. None of these modern appliances will give you 42 years of service or at least not without expensive repairs along the way. As for cooktop scratch prevention clean up any salt/sugar spills immediately, do not slide pots, and do as some of us have done as per long-time poster Kaseki suggested and cut small circles from a standard coloured silicone baking mat-not a SILPAT-and arrange in a triangle pattern on each hob for your pan to sit on. The overlapping cooktop models are probably designed for a standard 36 inch countertop but check height adjustment range if your new countertop is higher. I would only pay double for a Wolf if they are claiming a 20 year life if it came with a warranty for those 20 years, and Wolf has had ongoing blue oven enamel chipping problems, along with a class action lawsuit, so no.

  • wannaknow2

    Thanks, Rita, I've been reading and reading. Thanks Jakvis, that is encouraging about adding a cord. Is it correct that you still can't ever pull it out if need be? I'm hoping others will be able to speak to specific questions, like the viability of self clean amongst others. Sue, I am glad you are enjoying the Samsung and it has not disappointed. That is as it should be!


  • Jakvis

    You can pull out the range just like you can any other range.

  • wannaknow2

    I thought of another question, this one about cooking. A feature of enameled cast iron is that it maintains its heat. What happens when you want to lower the temperature? I know the induction range will lower it instantly, but how long would it take to go from boiling to a simmer (for instance if you are making rice) when the pot is designed to keep it at a hotter temperature? I realize it will cool down as the high heat is no longer applied, but it seems the pot would stay hotter longer than another material. Another example comes to mind: if you used a pot to boil noodles and then wanted to make a roux in the warm pan while the noodles were draining. Would the milk, butter, flour and cheese burn because the pot was too hot, even if you turned off the hob? Thanks, again!

  • jwvideo

    Cast iron is still cast iron. One of the advantages is that it retains heat well. It will react more quickly on induction than on other stoves, but it still is not as instantaneous as adjusting the heat seems to be with pans made of other materials. I'd say, from my experience with enameled cast iron dutch ovens, that there is some lag but it doesn't matter unless you are making one of those ultra-gourmet sauces which have very precise heat tolerances where you need to instantly drop the sauce temp from a roiling boil down to, say, 160° F poaching temperatures. Best use another pan for that on any stove, actually.

    As Rita mentioned, there have been long prior threads here which have covered many of your questions. It will be worth your while to track those down. While I'm going to take a shot at summarizing answers on those points that I can recall being answered. I'd still recommend you check out the thread on the Cafe here and check the one on the current Bosch ranges here.

    On burner power settings, where did you find the information that the GE cafe burners have 21 steps? This may be new. as GE support told me (when I called them for a friend) and the posters in the GE Cafe Induction thread here have all reported that the Cafe models use infinitely variable rather than stepped power settings. AFAIK, the GE Profile models are the ones with stepped power settings, not the Cafe induction stoves.

    On your other power setting questions, two points. Most other induction ranges (including the Bosch models and GE's Profile line) put more power steps at the low end and fewer at the high end to give finer control where you need it. Also, "boost" settings can be confusing, indeed. Might be easiest to understand them as power sharing arrangement. Think of all those Star Trek episodes where the Captain says: "route all power to the forward shields."

    On whether you should you worry about 300-400 watt differences in max burner power specs: only if you regularly use a stopwatch for competitive speed-to-boil contests. :>)

    On burner positioning: you've identified all the trade offs. There is no right answer. You just have to figure out what your personal preferences and priorities are.

    On the knobs versus touchpad controls, we're again talking personal preferences and priorities. Some of us find knob controls --- a/k/a rotary digital user interface" --- ergonomically preferrable for us while others strongly prefer touchpads. It is another personal preference without a correct or incorred answer. There is no difference in precision of setting except with regard to the GE Cafe -- it seems the tradeoff for having the infinitely variable power settings is that there is no digital display that tells you precisely what power level you have turned to.

    On the Aqua-lift questions, did you mean Whirlpool when you cited Frigidaire as one of the stoves with Aqualift? FWIW, Frigidaire is part of part of Electrolux, not Whirlpool, and Aqua-lift is exclusive to Whirlpool products.

    As to the susceptibility of Bosch and GE Cafe induction ranges to heat damage from pyrolitic slef-cleaning cycles --- the short answer is that there is no way for us to know. The long answer is that it is next to impossible for consumers to find out what the actual risks are of any failure, let alone ones that are directly attributable to electronics failing from the stress of pyrolitic self-cleaning cycles as opposed to other cause such as the manufacturers cheaping out on electronic components that could fail sooner or later, anyway.

    On ovens, I would suggest you look at the long threads on the models here, but generally, everybody seems pleased.

    Will higher powered oven heating elements give a big advantage over-not-quite-so-highly powered elements? The differences will be slight. On broilers, the rated max power is only part of the equation. The shape and resulting coverage also matter. IIRC, the GE Cafe has a larger oven than the Boch and may need the extra power for that reason. When I researched the GE for a friend a few weeks ago, I don't recall finding any comparisons between the broiling abilities of Bosch and GE electric ovens except the generalized ratings in Consumer Reports. Do you have access to CR online or at a local library?

    On having a convection broil, I had that feature on my previous range, a GE dual fuel. I used it infrequently, mainly just for quickly browning the tops of some baked goods such as biscuits. I found the convection roast feature more useful and the GE Cafe does have that feature. (Convection roast employs the upper heating element along with the convection and lower elements.)

    On burner locations and usable areas of the cooktop, that is one of those YMMV things. I think that the best way to find out what works (or deosn't) for you is to take your regular pots and pans down to a showroom and see how the layout works for you. For the Bosch for which no local showroom near you has one on display, I'd suggest downloading some of the cooktop images (for example, I think ajmadison.com will have overhead views ot the stoves you are considering.) Print them out and then scale the dimensions up to draw a replica on a sheet of newspaper or poster paper.

  • mdzski

    We had a Bosch induction cooktop for >10 years without any issues. Remodeled our kitchen and wanted matching appliances, so changed everything to GE. It’s been less than 2 years and my GE cooktop will not turn on. The repair cost was estimated at $1000. We are getting no power to it. Lights will not turn on. Nothing. However, if I leave the breaker on, it gets a hotspot which could burn you. We are searching for a new cooktop and will likely go back to Bosch but are guaranteed not to get another GE. My experience was with the cooktop and not the slide-in stove/oven.

  • ninasmom

    I have a Bosch ( non-induction) slide-in.

    Things that I have learned: Don’t use the self-clean. After running for hours to ‘burn off’ the smell, I ran the self clean to accelerate that, and the oven window shattered and imploded.

    Hard to keep low simmers-warming burner is good for that.

    Fast preheat button for oven is required-otherwise takes forever.

    Fan is loud!

    Broiler runs w/door shut- that was new to me, but makes sense w/front controls.

    Warming drawer was great for TG!

    Previous stove turned on by itself-crazy scary. If you brush the oven controls on the Bosch they will turn off unless you confirm the setting details.

    Good luck!

  • wannaknow2

    Thanks for all who have chimed in so far. I have not answered because I wanted to find where I saw that there were 21 induction settings for the GE Cafe as per JWVideo's response. I found it in two places, one is in the Q&A section on the Home Depot page. The answer from Sue of GE on 5/10/18 says there are 19 discrete settings. Page 8 of the Owner's Manual. shows a picture of the numerical settings.




    Like JWVideo did earlier, I called GE directly two days ago. The lady was very helpful, thought it was continuous, but realized their manual and their HD answer seemed to disagree. I remained on hold while they researched the issue. They could not get a definitive answer, so they promised to email a response within 24 hours. I have not gotten anything from them.

    I believe JW and the others are right; the photograph of the knob does not have any markings and looks to be continuous rather than discrete.

    I also note the HD question by Fairoaks on 8/25/18 whether there are ball bearing racks and whether they can be cleaned. Sue's answer on 9/19/18: "Hi Fairoaks - The range is equipped with 1 Self-Clean Heavy-Duty Roller Rack (ball bearing) and 2 Self-Clean Heavy-Duty Oven Racks. These self-clean racks can be cleaned during the self-cleaning cycle." The GE rep told me the rack is NOT ball bearing but glides. It is also not telescopic. By the way, the Lowe's Q&A had info from GE about the temperatures in the warming drawer: "approximate temperature ranges are as follows: •Lo 140 - 170° F, •Medium 170 - 210° F, •Hi 215 - 250° F." The GE Rep didn't have that info when I asked and I didn't see it on the Lowe's page until after I spoke with her.

    It is also interesting (assuming it is accurate) what GE's Sue wrote that their induction does not cycle on and off, in light of prior threads mentioning buzzing of the cooktop from cycling as the power didn't seem to always be continuous.

    I also asked the rep about the 3700w 11" element; she confirmed it is always at 3700w, even though other brands have around that number as a boost, meant only to be used for a short period, such as 10 minutes. Would it be correct to think that if you didn't want/need it at 3700w you would just turn the knob lower than the highest setting, and it would have a lower setting and NOT pull 3700 w? (True for all the hobs, I assume?)

  • wannaknow2

    JWVideo is also totally correct, I was wrong in saying Frigidaire was a Whirlpool product. I don't want any one who is beginning a search to think the Frigidaire/Electrolux companies are the same as or associated with Whirlpool and their line, including Jenn-Air and KitchenAid. Thanks, JW!

  • wannaknow2

    I had already read through the long threads of the two links JWVideo provided and I apologize as you suggest some or all was already asked. Maybe overload, I just don't recall seeing the answers.


    Regarding the evenness and qualities of the ovens, I don't recall seeing anything specifically on the reviews. I recall reading about problems a long time ago with unevenness with some brands, even with convection. I will go try to go through the long threads again. JW, I confirmed with GE that their broiler is 8 pass, as is the Bosch. I have no idea about the shapes of the elements, and I didn't know it would matter. I assumed they all were like a sin curve, kind of like the letter "u" going above and mirror image below an imaginary axis or center line. I was surprised that GE was unable to tell me the "usable" dimensions/area of the oven, whereas Bosch has it listed.


    I was impressed that European or True Convection seems to be more standard now and not a feature that you pay more for. I didn't look and so am not sure if that is accurate on the lower end models. It is good to know that the wattage levels between the Bosch and GE Cafe are not significant.


    I didn't see anything in what I read as to how long the GE Cafe oven took to preheat to 350 degrees; the GE rep said it takes 15 - 20 minutes, with convection taking less (that makes sense). GE has no fast preheat, Bosch does (but it seems the 'fast' option is 15 minutes). I also asked her how much the temperature would have to drop (or how long) before the thermostat would add more heat. Sometimes you make something that needs a higher heat at the beginning and then a reduced heat for the rest of the baking. I wondered if you reduced the oven temperature, would it automatically reduce the heat or would you have to wait until the thermostat sensed the necessity (so that it stays at a higher temperature longer than you wanted). I understand the oven is a closed box which maintains heat, and maybe the only way to reduce the temperature by 25 degrees or more is by opening the door, so maybe it is a silly question. The other thought is that you want a consistent heat when you are baking cookies, not something that will vary by 25 degrees. However, I don't know how an older oven accomplishes it, so again, maybe it is really a non-issue.


    I didn't read about the flex elements not being true bridges until after I posted originally. I don't think I saw a consistent clear answer whether the middle "unheated" portion becomes evenly hot with the sides or do you just treat it as a cooler area. If anyone has any current experience, I'd like to hear.

  • wannaknow2

    Mdzski, I am very sorry for your nightmare experience. That is just awful, so frustrating and disappointing, not to mention costly. That is why we wish we had more info from real users, so, thank you for your feedback. I hope your next choice will work out like a dream for you.


    Vendor, I've read about cleaning up sugar, but not salt, but that certainly makes sense since you'd clean roadside salt off of your car in the winter. Thanks for the reminder about baking mats (not Silpat) arranged in triangles. I will have to find those threads and save them. It's too bad Wolf wouldn't stand behind their product for any longer length of time, but I guess it is telling. I just read something about the trim kit reducing chipping because it covers the edges; that makes sense, but seems to undermine the look the Bosch gives. I also read someone saying they get crumbs under the Bosch exposed edges and use a toothpick.


    Ninasmom, thank you for all those pointers. I trust Bosch made good on your imploded shattered oven door. I hope the induction will help with the long low simmers, especially with more control weighted toward the lower settings as JWVideo pointed out, and the continuous (non-intermittent) heat that the GE response on the Home Depot site, assuming it is accurate. Is "TG" Thanksgiving? I would like to see the controls for the very reason you mentioned. I think I can see a display of the GE Cafe gas range with the same control panel as the induction, it is the model PGS930SELSS, and looks to be about the same.

  • wannaknow2

    Does anyone know anything about purchasing through a union or other member-plan (such as Buyer's Edge)? DD, who lives at home, is a teacher and we'd be able to use their pricing, which seemed good, however, they said they would charge for some things local stores might/would not (delivery, installation, haul away). They said they deliver through PC Richards. Most interesting, they offered an 8 year warranty for $700, 5 years for $470. I called the GE insurance (Service Protection Advantage (SPA), a company under Assurit Insurance) and they offer 5 years for $320 but nothing more than 5 years; you would have to renew after 5 years. The SPA rep said that their 5 years meant 6 years after the date of purchase, whereas the Buyer's Edge option includes the original year that comes with it, so you are really getting one year less. Both would be for parts and labor on electrical and mechanical, full coverage. Are there any downsides to considering a union catering place? Thanks!

  • kim k

    I have the GE Cafe - if I can answer any of your questions I will! In using the knobs they feel as though they are continuous but when the oven is not in use and you turn the dial you can hear a slight click at each number (just tested it). I have the double oven version... anything I can test out to help answer you let me know!

  • kim k

    There is also no way mine takes 15-20 minutes to preheat to 350 degrees! Its much faster. That could be due to the two ovens however.

  • kim k

    I looked back and read some of your earlier questions... I used the convection roast setting tonight - it works great and faster than just a regular roast option.

    You cannot easily turn the oven on by accident, you need to choose the oven temp or setting and then press start in order to start the oven.

    I am not careful about what I slide around on the cooktop. Cookie sheets, roasting pans etc go straight from the oven to the cooktop and I have never had a scratching or other issue. It's really easy to clean and so far no scratches. The induction keeps the top amazingly clean, no more burnt on food!

    Cookies cook evenly... frozen pizza cooked great and I used the convection setting and made one on each rack - I was surprised by that one. I did make my kids some cinnamon rolls the other day and the tops cooked faster than the bottoms - I was thinking it's likely because I put the pan in the oven before it was preheated? Or perhaps I had the wrong temp... not sure and haven't tried again yet. All the other meals I have cooked in it have been without issue. So far I am very pleased.

  • ninasmom

    Here are the controls-warming drawer defaults to MED, press again for LO or HIGH. Just learned this!

    2/3 with this co- they replaced range (turns out it was a floor model, which they denied), then new

    freezer never got cold= another rplct. DW is fine thus far- also Bosch.

    Oven keypad on right- not captured in pic.

    And yes TG= Thanksgiving


  • wannaknow2

    Great that you are still learning, Ninasmom. How did you ever figure out it was a floor model? At least they admitted it and then gave you the new one. Was it a well known place? Shame on them! So foolish too, because word-of-mouth experiences and recommendations (or, not!) go a long way. Did they ever think moms might get together with other moms or teachers (that is, others over and above friends), and spread their opinion? The company probably wouldn't even know, leave alone be able to undo it! And, if they tried this stunt with several people, well, it's their reputation and their business they're risking.

  • wannaknow2

    Thanks, Kim, for reaching out. I am sure I'm going to take advantage of your kind offer! Thanks for the info on the oven, especially the frozen pizzas. It's good to know that it preheats quickly. How long have you had it? It's great how much you're using, and enjoying it. Did you get any kind of hood?

  • ninasmom

    Had a reply & attached wrong pic, ugh. Will try again.

  • ninasmom

    Basically they denied it was a floor model, even tho I went to the store and saw a ‘missing ‘ range. They did replace it, and delivery co (with no level) told me the initial range was not in a box, like the new one.

    Note to all -take pics! Now I know.

    So after all that, they want me to purchase a warranty on the replacement range. I am usually not assertive,but told them the least they could do was cover that! They did.

    Still can’t believe the whole fiasco. I only went with them b/c zero interest.

    New freezer never got cold-another rplct. Bosch DW is good- love the 3rd silverware tray-was iffy on that- plus no exposed heating element= plastic anywhere!

    Will try again w/pics



  • kim k
    I’ve had it since October but i use it daily. I cook for a family of 6 nothing too complicated lol but it gets lots of use - especially the cooktop! The oven is used mostly for pumpkin bread, cookies, roasting vegetables and baking (homemade) chicken tenders. I bought a chimney style kitchen-aid hood. It’s ok. Only works on high setting and fine for us. Not sure I’d recommend it for anything beyond looks.
  • ninasmom

    Bosch clean aftermath

  • wannaknow2

    Ninasmom, That has got to be so frightening and upsetting. I'm glad you stuck to your guns and they did the right thing after lying, and gave you the warranty. Good for you! I trust the new one is working as it should.

  • wannaknow2

    Hi Kim K, we went on Friday and ordered the single oven GE Cafe. They only had a GE gas range (PGS930SELSS, which I think is the Profile) with what I believe is the same control panel. It wasn't hooked up, so what we could see was somewhat limited. The knobs did have numbers. I appreciate what you said about not being able to accidentally turn it on. As far as we could see, the angled control panel looked very readable, and did not make you reach far back to get to the cooking area. The only induction range they had was a Jenn-Air with the control panel on the top of the stove. The only thing that was a negative were the oven racks which did not seem to glide easily. We will see if the induction version is the same, and will be content no matter what.


    They didn't have it in stock (even though he said they had several the day before), and is supposed to call us today to see if and how fast they can get it in. Thanks so much for your encouragement. I am sure I will be reaching out to you again (although I don't see any email or contact info on Houzz).

  • kim k

    The control panel is very readable and cooktop easy to reach. I am not very tall and have never had an issue. I hope you enjoy it! We looked at the JennAir also... I have heard the ranges with the touch panels on the stove top don't always work great when you have wet hands. I also love the look of the knobs on the GE :)

  • wannaknow2

    I don't recall who, but I remember reading a comment from someone within the last few years who was thrilled to see this Demeyere plancha/teppanyaki on sale, which is again at the Zwilling website (for $129 "slight visual imperfections"): DEMEYERE 15.4" X 10.6" TEPPANYAKI PLANCHA GRIDDLE - VISUAL IMPERFECTIONS.

    Will this work on a GE Cafe Induction range with the two paired 8" elements? I was wondering if it would be too small because there's some space in between the two hobs, so total length would be greater than 16" and also the 10.6" width might be too small. Thanks!

  • kim k
    I’ll email you now so you can remove the post! :)
  • jwvideo

    Wannakow2,

    The folks who were "thrilled" with the 15.4 x 10.6 Demeyere were posting in the thread on the current Bosch induction ranges which can be found here: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4725146/brief-review-of-newest-bosch-induction-range-hiip055u.

    You can probably use the Demeyere plancha over the paired 8" burners on the GE cafe. For one thing, the Demeyere planchas do a remarkable job of evenly spreading heat when placed over two adjoining burners, so the space between the burners should not be a problem in that regard. Also, IIRC, the Cafe's manuals lists 5" as the minimum pan size for each of those 8" hobs. If you think of those hobs as two 5" hobs there should be enough hob coverage for that plancha to work over the paired hobs. Also, there has been a general rule of thumb here that a pan will work on an induction hob if it covers least 60% of the hob. With that Demeyere plancha, you've probably got more like 80% coverage of both hobs.

    Of course, "should work" is not always "will work." If nobody posts here with actual experience with the plancha (or something similar) on the Cafe, you might try contacting GE customer service by phone or on the website.

  • wannaknow2

    Thanks, JWVideo! I will wait just a little longer and hope for other experienced responses, otherwise give GE a call tomorrow.


    I am wondering about something else: the boast in induction stoves is the high heat, allowing you to boil water really quickly, or cook in less time. However, as I've been reading about cast iron and Demeyere (and I would guess for other stainless steel cookware), including past comments by you, that you must heat the pot slowly for cast iron and there's no need for anything beyond a medium setting at most for stainless steel. Does this pertain only to a 3700 watt burner or also the 1800 w and 2500 w elements? In light of that, I don't understand the difference is for induction, and what benefit there is to something so high as 3700 w (I realize that half of 3700 is more than the 1800 of the least hobb)? Is using the 3700 w hobb at medium the same as using the 1800 at high? Would you also boil water (such as for pasta) on the highest setting? What does heating a cast iron pot "slowly" mean in practical use? How do you do it? Is it 5 minutes at low and 5 minutes at medium and then go to high? I also think of demonstrations of how to cook eggs, for instance, where they say the key is a very hot sizzling pan. I find this all of this to be confusing, although I'm probably just missing something. Thanks in advance; I know I'm asking a lot of questions!

  • jwvideo

    Let me try to take a shot at responding to what seem to be topics.

    Cast Iron: the advice on gradually heating cast iron applies when you are heating an empty pan (as you would for, say, searing a steak) rather than bringing something to boil. For boiling, you've got a medium (water or other liquid) which can spread the heat and there is much less stress on the pan than when preheating an empty pan. Also, boiling mostly doesn't need evenly heated pan bases. You can put a dutch oven or deep fry pan full of water on the big GE burner and use the full 3700 watts to bring it to boil if you want.

    For preheating empty pans for sears and sautes, the advice is different for several reasons.

    Start with the nature of cast iron cookware. Basically, cast iron does a great job at holding onto heat but is slow at absorbing it and not great at spreading (conducting) it so it takes quite a while to evenly preheat it. Then consider that the induction field (what generates heat in the pan) is a toroidal shape (aka donut shaped). You can see actually see this when you put a cast iron pan onto boil water --- you will see a calm center "bulls eye" area surrounded by a ring of bubbles and then another calmer ring beyond that. The area of the bubble will be the hottest area of the pan. (FWIW, something similar happens with regular capped sealed gas burners, too.)

    When put an empty cast iron pan on an induction burner cranked to max, you quickly get a ring of screaming hot surface and an area inside and outside of it that are much less hot and take a lot longer to get hotter. It takes a relatively long time for cast iron to spread the heat evenly for searing and sauteing. If you crank the heat as high as possible and then try to dial it back -- something a lot of people do on other stoves --- you can wind up with parts of your empty cast iron pan being way too hot while the rest of the pan is much less hot. You get a quicker and better result by heating that empty iron pan by gradually ramping up the heat.

    Also, if you are using vintage cast iron, you want to ramp up the empty pan's heat more gradually for another reason. Induction can heat part of the pan (again empty) so much quicker than other because overheating just parts of the pan can produce stresses that crack the old cast iron. Another aspect that sometimes is not understood by folks new to induction. You spent time seasoning your cast iron pan (or maybe you have carbon steel pans that needed seasoning, too,) When you crank an empty pan with max heat, some parts of the pan will get hotter than 600° and completely burn off the seasoning. Consider also that lead melts at something like 621°F, IIRC. Better to ramp up a little more gradually

    What does heating gradually mean for cast iron? Five minutes on low, then five on medium, then higher may work okay, but you'll want to experiment a bit with your pans and your stove to get the timing more exact. Note that I said "higher" rather than "high." Again, you don't want to crank that big burner to max power because parts of you pan will then shoot up into lead melting temps, burning off seasoning, and leaving you waith an unevenly heated fry pan. FWIW, something like your 5-5-5 approach has worked work pretty well with my enameled cast iron dutch oven but my big old Lodge fry pan takes a more gradual ramp up if I want an evenly heated surface for searing. Actually, for even searing temps, I've had much better luck following the recommendations from Serious Eats and Cooks illustrated which is to put the big iron fry pan in the oven, crank the oven temp to 500°F, and leave the fry pan in for 30 minutes. Then move the pan to a stovetop hob set to medium to medium high. That gets an excellent sear.

    Using Max Heat For Boiling Versus More Gradual Heat For Saute/searing with Stainless "Clad pans: Again, no problem using max hob heat for bringing water to boil or lots of oil to temp for deep frying in most any kind of pan. Similar story to cast iron for preheating empty clad pans except the "overshoot" is less severe because clad pans will drop heat more quickly than the cast iron skillets.

    Demeyere pans (at least the ones I have) are pretty heavy which makes them a bit of a special case.. Their mass holds heat nearly as well as cast iron but they grab it more quickly and spread the heat a lot more evenly. Blasting a pan on induction with 3700 watts will get it screaming hot very quickly, and maybe way beyond what you want -- again are you looking for quickly getting to lead melting temperatures or something more reasonable for sauteing etc.?. The mass of the Demeyere pans results in them staying at way too high a heat level for longer. They will get to and hold desired heat levels more quickly and more evenly if you don't crank the burner as high as possible and then try to let it cool back down to usable levels.

    With less massive clad pans (e.g., All Clad, Cuisinart Multiclad, etc.) cranking the pan too quickly to extreme heat can cause warping or loss of tight bonding between the layers of cladding. Again, why scorch your empty pans with lead melting temps and then wait for them to cool down to usable heat levels when it is more efficent to just start them out on the middling heat levels where you want them to be, anyway.

    How to tell when a pan is heated to a sizzling enough heat level: Try using the Leidenfrost effect aka the water droplet test. (For those who don't know, your pan is the right level of sizzling heat when water droplets act like balls of mercury and roll around the pan. If your pan is hot but not hot enough, the water droplets just bubble away. If the water droplets shatter into tinier droplets that rapidly skitter around like spilled bbs, the pan is too hot.) You don't need all 3700 watts of power to quickly get, say, an All Clad fry pan to the "mercury ball" stage and if you do use full power, then you are likely going to shoot way past your desired heat level.

    Does the foregoing help answer your questions?

  • wannaknow2

    Yes, for the most part, it makes a lot more sense.


    I called the GE Help Line about the Plancha. The rep said that you need a pan 5" to enable the induction to work (that is their minimum listed size, he said a maximum would be more trial and error). Based on this, 10.6" wide would definitely work and he was pretty certain the 15.4" long would work too, again because you only needed to cover 5" of the hob to have it work, and adding the distance between the two 8" hobs would still allow a 15.4" long griddle to fit.


    I asked him about whether 3700 w at medium setting meant you were really using less than the 3700 w. The answer is you are always using the 3700w, just as in a gas burner the BTU power used is always the same, whether it is on low or high. It is akin to pulling hot water from your heater for a shower. It pulls the same amount of hot water from the heater whether you take a cooler or hotter shower. If I understand him correctly, then you can't say "you don't need all 3700 w of power" because no matter what, you are pulling that amount. I guess you could say that you are not allowing all the heat to come through in lower setting, as in the shower - water heater example. In fact, when we spoke about simmering or lower heat cooking after the initial bringing something to a boil, he suggested putting it on another burner because of the lower wattage. I found it interesting to think that you'd use two burners, and I don't recall having read that before. I am assuming most would just lower the heat setting. I'm not sure if there is a significant saving in the cost of the electricity to use the lower wattage burners after you've finished the 'heavier' part of the job; my guess is it is not significant.


    JWV, I'm sure you've said this elsewhere, but if you don't mind repeating, what line of Demeyere did you get for pots and pans, and would you mix a line by taking one line for a frying pan and another for a pot? Would you get a Dutch oven or roasting pan for the oven? Is there any reason not to use a sloped-sided frying pan (easier to get food out) or must you get straight sides with induction? Thanks again.

  • jwvideo

    I'm not sure I followed the explanation you received from the GE rep. Or maybe the rep was giving you an engineer's explanation of "Pulse Width Modulation." PWM is a way of using power in bursts to effect energy transfer equivalent to turning a traditional electric or gas burner up or down. It is kind of like averaging. You cycle the power on and off slowly to simulate lower energy transfer. Cycle it faster and with longer pulses, you get more energy transfer and the effect of turning up the power or gas on a traditional hob. That's how most microwaves work, btw. What we're talking about is how much energy gets transmitted into the cooking vessel. The PWM is just a way of governing the amount of energy being applied to the pan. The net effect is the same as turning power or gas up and down.

    Maybe somebody else can better explain the theory of the what the rep suggested?

    On your question about cookware to buy, let me suggest try a new post with links to the cooking and cookware forums here where you can get more direct responses. Also, rather than have me give a cookware 101 lecture (pontificate?), I suggest you try a site like Serious Eats which already has a pretty good discussion of "essential cookware." (Click on the highlght to go to the article.) I think Cook's Illustrated also may have one if you have access to their site.

    My responses to your specific cookware questions are:

    1. I certainly would and do mix pan from different brands and lines. Most folks here would advise you to do so. Nothing necessarily wrong with buying sets, of course, but you may do better by picking and choosing.

    2. I have only two Demeyere pans, both labeled as "Demeyere 7 TripleInduc.." Bought them on clearance from the Zwilling website you noted above for the plancha. One of my pans is a ten-inch frying pan. The other is the 21"x13" big brother of the plancha/teppanyaki/griddle you linked above.

    3. I have both a roasting pan and a dutch oven. Frankly, if I had neither one, I'd look at the recommendations on Cook's Illustrated and Serious eats for decent dutch ovens and then I would also get a good , sturdy half sheet pan (it is a baking sheet with a short raised rim around the outside.) I'd use the baking sheet to impersonate a roasting pan by plonking in a cooling rack and setting the food on that. Also, if you get that plancha/griddle/teppanyaki, it can do a bang-up job as a shallow roasting pan, too. These days, I use my big roasting pan mainly for very big and juicy birds. YMMV.

    4. Re "straight-sided" versus slope-side skillets, there is no "must" for induction. Get the slope-sided pan that you think you will like using better.

  • wannaknow2

    Thanks! All of this has been so helpful. I have only started reading about the cookware, and I'm still trying to keep things straight in my mind. I will try to start with the Serious Eats and Cooks Illustrated (if I can) articles. Once I get a basic understanding, I might well go to the Cooking and Cookware forums.


    Is the half-sheet pan the same as a jelly-roll pan - very short rims? I realize with convection you need something lower than what I'm probably used to, however, doesn't cooking something like chicken or meatloaf cause the pan to just fill with grease to the point of it spilling if you don't keep it 100 percent level in removing it from the oven? Even a brownie or casserole pan has some height. Brother, have I got a lot to learn...

  • jwvideo

    It is like a jelly roll pan but larger. longer and wider. When you have particularly fatty meatloaf or birds, then you might want to use deeper pans such as the brownie and casserole pans you mentioned. Buying a rack(s) to fit them is way more economical that buying roasting pans. Or get a basic basting bulb and use it to suck the fatty accumulations down to more manageable levels during cooking.

    Could we be any further from the GE vs Bosch topic of this thread? ;>)

  • wannaknow2

    JWVideo, you are right, of course. Point taken.

  • venmar

    Further to JWVideo's tips re preheating cast iron my French enameled Staub -similar to Le Creuset-recommends preheating at 1/3 rd power for 5 minutes and then full power may be used but use booster option with care, I would think 3700 watts at high on your GE would be considered boosted by European standards and unnecessary, furthermore in one of their suggested all in one pot recipes they say brown the meat at 2/3 rd power. I have briefly used up to 7 out of 10 heat on a preheated cast iron grill pan. My experience with a 2011 Electrolux induction range has been to use boost/high only to boil a kettle or Pasta pot and have your exhaust hood running to avoid steam condensation and stay close to turn heat down if needed, because it is much faster to have a rolling boil. Also don't reheat a soup on high unless you are continuously stirring even with the best of heat conducting clad pans. You can guess why I now know this! The other great thing with induction is at the opposite low temperature end of heating. You won't have to use a double boiler to do low heat cooking, chocolate melting, etc. The lowest temperature is very low, try to match pan size to burner hob size for delicate foods. Have fun and give us your experiences once you have been using your new GE for a while.

  • wannaknow2

    Thanks, Venmar. I trust your pot cleaned nicely after the soup episode. That's all good to know. The melting chocolate at low is interesting, because I usually make (white) chocolate bark at this time of year for gifts, and I usually melt the chips in the microwave (it has a melt function which has worked well for me when I make this).

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