Would darlow's enigma work there or did you want a full flower?

Hey Vaporvac, I am open to any to any type of bloom. Do you think Darlows Enigma would get too big or is it fairly easy to manage its size?

I have one that I love but it wants to be big, check on HMF.The smell is divine & I no longer water or feed it. I've had it 4 years & stopped watering last year. It's about 9' now & I've pruned it every year. I think there will come a time when I'll just let it go. Not sure that it's an OGR.

It's a found Rose, but I wasn't sure if the o p only wanted OGRs. Would any of the hybrid musks work or even Cecil Brunner ? I'll have to look through what I grow, but many of them say they are okay in shade, but our sun isn't strong enough. They need sun here in the Ohio River Valley.

I have CB & she's easy to keep at 6-7' but it took me 4 years to get her like that. She had passed the 2nd story & was headed towards the attic of the house. I took her down gradually over the 4 years & then cleaned her up once the height was reduced. She's a wonderful rose, at least 50 years old who I also don't dare feed or water. She puts on quite a show from late June to early November, heaviest earlier but always with blooms. I wouldn't be without her. She isn't an OGR but is a grand old-timer.

I warn you, my beloved Darlow's Enigma is 8' tall and still getting taller. Wide too.

I've been exploring gallicas. Haven't grown any yet so can't personally recommend but have learned that they are cold hardy, many are shade tolerant, and many reportedly do well in poor soil. Little hard to find but High Country Roses has several varieties for sale now.

I think I’ll pass on DE then. Missouri Botanical Garden has a wonderful climbing CB I always enjoy seeing. I wonder if the non-climbing CB would get very large.

I would love a Gallica. I have deer that come through the edge of the garden there and I fear I could potentially loose all blooms for a year at once. I have considered and am still open to a non-remonant rose. I thought of Queen of Denmark but hear the bush doesn’t have a nice shape.

I think Stanwell Perpetual would suit you. It is not too tall and it blooms forever, at least from early June to late October in my climate, USDA zone 5 (approximately.) It needs no care in my clay, no water or fertilizer.

My CB was killed back in -7 C last year, but rebounded quickly. It's a very pretty rose that blooms a lot. BS first year, but it seems to have recovered from that now. What about one of the Orlean polyanthas such as MMe Norbert LeVavasseur. It's hardy and bloomy with a bit of fragrance and can take neglect. It suffers from Bs here in the Ohio River Valley, but always blooms and grows new leaves. Where do you live?

Thanks, Mariannese. That’s good to hear about SP. I wish more online nurseries carried it.

I will look up the Orlean polyanthas. I have not heard of them. Thanks for your info on CB. I live in the St Louis area. Very similar environment to Cincinnati (I lived there a few years).

I thought that was the case. for some reason Houzz removed my location info and now I can't add it as they limit one to 1x changes per year. : ( LOVE St.Louis. My DH did his post-doc there and worked with Dr. Raven for years. I miss those yearly calendars! I will post pics of Mme.NL in a bit. Very Hardy... they've lived over 100 yrs. in my yard! : )

I agree with your suggestion of Marie Pavie, Comtesse. I was thinking about suggesting her. Would Felicia be happy in your climate? I sure love my Felicia, and she’s in lots of shade. Gruss an Aachen is also happy in just morning sun. Gruss has a very tidy round growth habit, but may be a bit smaller than what you’re looking for. White Pet does fine in shade, here. It’s tough as nails, too! Lisa

Vaporvac- that‘s neat you and your husband have ties here. We enjoy it here. It was hard to leave Ohio but we’re happy here now. Yes, I’d love to see pics of NL.

Thanks Comtesse and Lisa. I had Marie Pavie a couple of years ago but she didn’t make it though her first winter, which was pretty harsh - long cold periods and several late freezes. l especially enjoyed her scent but I’m concerned I could loose her in this particular spot. I have only researched R roxburghii very little in the past - I’ll research it further. You were asking about the weather. We get very wide fluctuations in temps. As for the winds - cold winter winds and strong spring winds at this site.

Marianesse - how tall has SP reached for you? I see some great images of its size and shape when googling it but I’m not sure if that’s typical. Is there hope for it to reach at least 4 feet?

For those who grow gallicas - what about Tuscany Superb? what do you think about its shape? I hear mixed reviews on its fragrance- from none to very fragrant. I have read it is fairly disease resistant- is that true?

I appreciate everyone’s suggestions/advice very much!

I love my Spinosissimas like Comtesse says. They are lovely and trouble free. Not that easy to find for sale though. All the OGRs can be beautiful in your area I would think Dave. My alba bushes don't have the grace of the spins or mosses or Rose de Rescht I don't think. Many OGRs do have a lovely shape.

Hey Sheila, is there a particular moss with a good growth habit you’d recommend? There is a spot several feet away from this one that gets a bit more sun. I was originally going to put Louise Odier there but would love to have a moss in this group.

Wow, I like them all! I especially like Armide and D’Aguesseau. HMF says Armide can provide some occasional repeat. Have you found this to be the case?

"scatted blooms'" is what repeat is on any once bloomer

Henri Martin has a great graceful arching shape Dave. I have Nuits de Young and Capitaine John Ingram too and too new to know the bush shape yet. La Reine HP is another winner.

Many of the old, once-blooming roses would do well probably. With shade and poor soil, they might be prone to shooting out suckers though. In areas like you describe it's nice to have some re-bloom because probably not much blooms there throughout the year. I'd suggest Lyda Rose. I have grown mine in quite shady conditions for over seven years and she is robust and generous with bloom throughout the summer. In addition to shade she must stuggle with the liquidambar and boxelder tree roots. She has a very nice shape, in my opinion.

Clawandthorn - That’s great to hear about Lyda Rose. Some wonderful pictures of her have been shared on the forum. The only thing that’s been holding me back is that she is relatively new but she would go perfect in this area. This was going to be an area just for OGRs but I may have to slide Lyda in anyway. Your correct, not much in this area is going on after spring.

Thank you Sheila and oldrosarian for your suggestions. I was afraid my list of possibilities were narrow for this area but are really much larger. I’ll have fun researching all of these.

Old Rosarian pointed out that some of her favorite tough old roses were available from Palatine Roses in Canada. If I am remembering correctly, she gave Palatine a lot of special material to develop their old roses collection. But what this made me think of, and what I don't think has been pointed out here, is that very often the old rose has a better form when it is grafted on a sturdy rootstock. I have noticed this with my own roses, the gallicas in particular, and heartily agreed when I read Helen Van Pelt Wilson suggest that the Apothecary's Rose was more desirable and better behaved when grafted. (A Fragrant Year... a charming older book if you aren't familiar with it). The type of root system for this location is something to seriously consider and it is possible a grafted rose may suit your purposes better. My old roses from Palatine tend to either grow to gi-normous proportions or just diddle and sulk. The grafted old roses from David Austin have been more "normal" and are still available at this time of year. I have had duds from both places; it just happens.

I appreciate your suggestion (and book recommendation - I’ll have to find it). Palatine is out of many I’d like to grow but will wait to order this fall if I cannot find them this year.

I have Levenson-Gower in mostly shade/dappled sun. He is on the west side of the house under the canopy of a huge tree and (knock on wood) hasn't really been bothered with black spot or pests. I think I planted the tiny band two years ago in January. It is own root and has grown a little slower in the shade with almost no supplemental water, but that's not surprising. It probably blooms les too. There are open blooms and 16 buds waiting to open. I'm very happy with this rose.

The photos don't do the rose justice.

What did you finally decide to order?

Yes! Love updates!!

Sorry I did not come back to this! In searching for what was available from my wish list, Greenmantle had Stanwell Perpetual. When expressing my interest in a moss rose and others, she recommended Salet and had a good plant available and so I went with those two. I have been so happy with both! I was going to order Armide but the shipping for only one bareroot was just too high and so I hope to get it in the future with some of these others. I’m considering putting a couple of large varieties behind these somewhat more compact roses.

I just returned back from Idaho and Wyoming and wanted to bring back some of the wonderful and tough species roses that grow there.

suncoastflowers- Your LG is beautiful! I hope to grow it someday. I purchased 4 new bourbons this year and would love to grow as many as possible.